No intruder?

[Holdontoyourhat]

Your question assumes this male desposited the DNA himself. I could easily be a transfer of DNA.

Your post is evasive because you have to do more than 'transfer' DNA. You have to replicate the deposits.

How could you 'easily' be a transfer of someone elses skin cells onto a childs waistband twice, and into a blood spot on the inside crotch area of their underwear? Are you a magician? Telekenesis? This I gotta hear!

Remember the unknown male still has to deposit his DNA somehow. Q: How did an unknown male deposit his DNA inside JBR's underpants?

No, you could not easily replicate these deposits. There is, however, one person who could easily replicate these deposits. Know who? The DNA owner during a sexual assault. Deposits instantly and effectively replicated. Thats why its proof of intruder.

 

[madeleine]

The problem is how do you prove this dna owner/intruder is also JB's killer.
The DNA owner could be dr.Beuf for example.
We don't know when JB died and we don't know who else was in that home before LE arrived.
Intruder/dna owner means only 'not a Ramsey',doesn't necessarily mean killer.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The problem is how do you prove this dna owner/intruder is also JB's killer.
The DNA owner could be dr.Beuf for example.
We don't know when JB died and we don't know who else was in that home before LE arrived.
Intruder/dna owner means only 'not a Ramsey',doesn't necessarily mean killer.

There is proof of an intruder that night because the matching DNA was found on two separate articles of clothing she wore that night. The waistband DNA wont make it thru the laundry.

There is no scenario that replicates these matching DNA deposits as easily and effectively as the person who performed the sexual assault that night.

Whatever idea RDI throws out there looks like it was just thrown out there. Go ahead and describe a scenario that replicates these deposits by someone other than the DNA owner doing something other than sexually assaulting her. Its obvious you're circumventing the obvious. Evading proof of an intruder.

 

[madeleine]

Can you place the murder weapon in the dna owner's hands?nope,we don't even know what killed her,head bash or strangulation.can you match the dna owner's handwriting with the one in the rn?nope,cause we have no idea who he is.can you trace the cord and tape back to him?nope.
can you prove that the person who sexually assaulted her is also the person who actually killed her?nope.we don't have an idea how many people were involved in this in the first place.

unknown dna doesn't mean an 'intruder killed JB'.

it only means someone not tested yet handled those clothes,panties and longjohns.that's it.that's not much.

 

[madeleine]

Go ahead and describe a scenario that replicates these deposits by someone other than the DNA owner doing something other than sexually assaulting her.

it only means someone not tested yet handled those clothes,panties and longjohns.that's it.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

it only means someone not tested yet handled those clothes,panties and longjohns.that's it.that's not much.

Stated as fact, but wrong. It does NOT mean that someone not tested yet handled those clothes.

The first DNA was found mixed with blood, taken in a swab of JBR's blood. Really, the first DNA sample had the clothes as a host but the DNA could be mixed with the blood first before contacting the clothing. You're assuming the first DNA was deposited by manual handling of her underwear but you don't really know. Now THATS a fact.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

it only means someone not tested yet handled those clothes,panties and longjohns.that's it.

Nah...

The context the DNA was found in, on the waistband and in the underwear, were areas selected by the police because they were considered relevant to the crime that happened. They had a POSITIVE result while testing criminally relevant surfaces.

Be glad, we now know intruder.

 

[madeleine]

Stated as fact, but wrong. It does NOT mean that someone not tested yet handled those clothes.

It doesn't mean that the one who touched her longjohns and sneezed/bled over her panties bashed her head or strangled her either.Do you know how many people participated in this crime?No.

 

[tumble]

it only means someone not tested yet handled those clothes,panties and longjohns.that's it.

Yes. Actually this someone might actually just have been handling one of the pieces of clothing, or maybe no clothing at all, maybe just shaking JBs hand on an earlier occasion, and the rest might be secondary transfer.

HOTYH, your question could be "How did the DNA end up where it did?", and the answer is "We have no idea"

 

[slug]

The DNA shows someone other than the ramsey's was there but cannot prove that one or more ramsey wasn't involved, witness, killer from the way the DNA comes up I would have thought more places would have been tested.

 

[madeleine]

were areas selected by the police because they were considered relevant to the crime that happened.

this works when you deal with a sexually motivated crime.this was more than a sexual crime and even you will have to agree since you believe a SFF did it,for money or fame or God knows why.

 

[madeleine]

Why did ML test ONLY those places?she thought from the beginning this was a sex crime.kinda limited IMO.
why not test the RN?the garotte?even Lou Smit was amazed that they didn't look for touch dna on her shirt,seems JB was hit/hurt on her right shoulder.

 

[madeleine]

http://noolmusic.com/utube/raw_video_lou_smit_talks_about_ramsey_case_in_a_ra.php

Video Lou Smit Talks About Ramsey Case

 

[madeleine]

ML did exactly what we blame ST to have done,looking only for evidence that fits a specific theory.thanks but no thanks.I am not impressed with their findings.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes. Actually this someone might actually just have been handling one of the pieces of clothing, or maybe no clothing at all, maybe just shaking JBs hand on an earlier occasion, and the rest might be secondary transfer.

HOTYH, your question could be "How did the DNA end up where it did?", and the answer is "We have no idea"

This is false.

How do skin cells get onto a surface? Vastly more likely from a touch from the skin cell owner. Vastly.

Do you know how convoluted it is for RDI to now suggest the skin cells that ML discovered were deposited by someone other than the skin cell owner who didn't then deposit their own skin cells? Do you have any idea how desperate that makes RDI seem?

If these same deposits were owned by PR or JR, then RDI. Thats how incriminating the deposits are.

The DNA deposits are smoking gun evidence of an intruder. Its not my fault if it gets ignored here.

 

[CathyR]

Dee Dee, the police have the right to bring folks in for questioning. That doesn't mean they have to answer anything. Yes, there are Miranda rights, but LE has always had the right to question individuals. It just seems to be that in this case they never honestly exercised those rights, up to and including to this day. In this country, the only citizens who get the same treatment are those who can afford it.

This is a long article, but it doesn't say that suspects have a right to refuse police questions, but can refuse to answer. The R's were not named as suspects, so their Miranda rights were not in play.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miranda_warning

>snip<

The Supreme Court did not specify the exact wording to use when informing a suspect of their rights. However, the Court did create a set of guidelines that must be followed. The ruling states:
“ ...The person in custody must, prior to interrogation, be clearly informed that he or she has the right to remain silent, and that anything the person says will be used against that person in court; the person must be clearly informed that he or she has the right to consult with an attorney and to have that attorney present during questioning, and that, if he or she is indigent, an attorney will be provided at no cost to represent her or him.

There is a lot more information, but by not being a suspect and not being willing to talk to police, wouldn't that be obstruction of justice?

I can't seem to get past the belief that the R's were treated differently due to their 'status' in the community. The BPD spoke immediately with suspects, why did the R's stall from the beginning? Why did they refuse to meet with LE for 4 months?

Sunnie is correct here. Lets us say windows in you neighborhood have been shot out for months. The police has reason to suspect you and they ask you to come down to headquarters to be questioned. You sit down and they start asking you about the different incidents and want to know where you were on this day at this time. You end up confessing to the crime. It goes to court your defense counsel argues that they did not read you your Miranda rights before they questioned you, therefore your confession is thrown out of court it is not admissible to the case.If you are questioned by the police they are supposed to read you your rights before they question you even if the do not think you are a suspect. You might reveal other criminal behavior to them that may be interested in pursuing. There is a CYA factor to the Miranda rights that also guards a police investigation and only makes it stronger.

What does bother me is how petty all the sides got as to where the R's would be questioned. The DA if truly interested should have questioned them anywhere they could. They should have filed obstruction charges, or threatened to when the R's lawyers started trying to dictate to them. If they ask you to come downtown and you refuse they can force you to come in but they can't make you answer anything just sit there. You can ask them as soon as you get seated and they ask 1 question if you are free to leave. If they don't have enough to arrest you at this time then they must let you go. They the R's could have strung out the questioning to the end of days but they didn't use that ploy.

I have come to the conclusion that the DA and BPD have messed up this case so badly no one working on the cases should be employed as lawyers or police officers anymore. Only the most minor players who did leg work and evidence collections should be left in an overall purging or clean house effort to get some justice for the citizens of Boulder. I wouldn't live there after reading about this case and I don't want any of my tourist dollars to support the people who do nothing about their communities lack of law enforcement and prosecution abilities.

 

[tumble]

This is false.

How do skin cells get onto a surface? Vastly more likely from a touch from the skin cell owner. Vastly.

Do you know how convoluted it is for RDI to now suggest the skin cells that ML discovered were deposited by someone other than the skin cell owner who didn't then deposit their own skin cells? Do you have any idea how desperate that makes RDI seem?

If these same deposits were owned by PR or JR, then RDI. Thats how incriminating the deposits are.

The DNA deposits are smoking gun evidence of an intruder. Its not my fault if it gets ignored here.

Yes, I agree that if this DNA gets matched to someone that cant be explained then it is very incriminating. But if it turns out to be JBRs snoring playpal or someone handling the evidence, not so much.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Yes, I agree that if this DNA gets matched to someone that cant be explained then it is very incriminating. But if it turns out to be JBRs snoring playpal or someone handling the evidence, not so much.

Again, just throwing out JBR's doctor or playpal doesn't wash. The evidence is too compelling for that. RDI needs a plausible scenario that results in this exact deposit. JBR's snoring playpal doesn't do that.

 

[Agatha_C]

Holdontoyourhat

Whatever idea RDI throws out there looks like it was just thrown out there. Go ahead and describe a scenario that replicates these deposits by someone other than the DNA owner doing something other than sexually assaulting her. Its obvious you're circumventing the obvious. Evading proof of an intruder.


I'm taking the bait (Yikes). It's quite possible that JBR was not put to bed in those P.J pants. I mean they lied about everything else, why not the pants, they put her to bed in? Nedra, herself stated JBR, would call out to anyone, to come wipe her. Perhaps she had worn them on a prior occasion, when someone had to help her in the bathroom. The pants went down the shoot and too the laundry area. The cloths she had worn, still upstairs, in the sink soaking the foamy vomit out (caused by head wound). The pants JBR, was found in, had been grabbed from the clothes pile in the wash room.... Oh, and I'm not just throwing that out there, I've actually given it more than a passing thought.

 

[Agatha_C]

Strange DNA on the outside of her pants. Fibers from her fathers shirt on the inside, crotch of her panties. Hmmmmm, DNA outside of pants, guilty intruder. JR fibers on his dead daughters crotch, Innocent. And you say that makes sense too you? Interesting and RDI just throws stuff out there.