No intruder?

[DeeDee249]

I have to disagree strongly about the bedwetting. MANY kids wet the bed, some even up through the grade school years. Enuresis is a common childhood problem and there are several causes for it that have nothing to do with sexual abuse or fear of the parent(s). Some kids have weak bladder muscles. Some have a bladder that is too small and doesn't hold that much. Some simply sleep so soundly that they don't wake up or feel the urge to go. Some kids need to wear pull-ups or depends if they are big kids, LONG after they have potty trained.

BUT- JB's situation was different! She HAD BEEN fully and completely potty trained by age 3. Then, three years later, she begins to poop and wet, not only her bed, but her clothes while awake. THAT is a problem that has nothing to do with common bedwetting. And THAT kind of thing is very often an indication of abuse. THis also occurred LONG after Patsy completed her chemo treatments and appeared to be in complete remission.

 

[MurriFlower]

I have to disagree strongly about the bedwetting. MANY kids wet the bed, some even up through the grade school years. Enuresis is a common childhood problem and there are several causes for it that have nothing to do with sexual abuse or fear of the parent(s). Some kids have weak bladder muscles. Some have a bladder that is too small and doesn't hold that much. Some simply sleep so soundly that they don't wake up or feel the urge to go. Some kids need to wear pull-ups or depends if they are big kids, LONG after they have potty trained.

BUT- JB's situation was different! She HAD BEEN fully and completely potty trained by age 3. Then, three years later, she begins to poop and wet, not only her bed, but her clothes while awake. THAT is a problem that has nothing to do with common bedwetting. And THAT kind of thing is very often an indication of abuse. THis also occurred LONG after Patsy completed her chemo treatments and appeared to be in complete remission.

Yes, I think it's a bit of a worry, but there may be other factors involved and it's also possible that the pooping is exagerated, because as far as I can see, it was just a bad wiping technique, not an actual pooping in the pants, unless it was caused by a tummy upset (and that can happen to anyone LOL).

 

[Tadpole12]

Ban all IDI's,then we can discuss how PR worte the note and how she bashed JB's head because she was angry.
What about me?Ban only 1%,5% outta me?
You know what,this attitude is making me wonder whether it wasn't an intruder after all....if the cops,who are RDI as well think like this as well then I don't wonder why this hasn't been solved yet.

You just can't stand listening to the other side.No respect for people who don't think like you.

Heyya Madeleine.

Have you ever seen the movie 'Reversal of Fortune'
[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reversal_of_Fortune[/ame]

based on the book, by Alan Dershowitz, Reversal of Fortune: Inside the von Bülow Case (New York, Random House 1986 ....

AD basis for appeal, was that circumstantial evidence can not convict if that same circumstantial evidence could lead to another plausability.

The movie examines how information is filtered and presented by the prosecution, and how expert witnesses are selected for purpose. Many parallels to the JBR case.

 

[Tadpole12]

It used to be different around here.....that's why I liked it.....I don't fit at FFJ....too RDI for me....I wouldn't fit at weBBsleuths,way too PRO Ramsey for me.....I hate topix cause of the language and insults.....so I guess maybe I should move on and follow another case cause this was the place to be but not anymore.Sorry for the rant.but I am only ranting when I am hurt,I guess.

Have a great weekend guys. :rose:

Oh madeleine, you are a perfect fit here!

 

[Tadpole12]

sorry, I´ve to let this out, I know you all are great "detectives", I´m just a mom of a missing child (please don´t be upset,lol)
I´ve watched a video, 2 neighbours said they have heard lout noises that night and 1 even said ,a long horrible child scream
well, is that true?
if so, why didn´t they call police or even call the ramseys?
why did the ramseys did not hear anything, as they were asleep in same house?
about digital penetration,could be done on purpose to not leave any DNA(for example from daddy) or the abuser?
did someone investigate PR ´s past since lot of ovaries cancer women have been abused as children?
here in my country when a child wets the bed it means they fear (are scared of)their parents ,above all of the father, if so, why did JBR fear them?

Hallo! DIRK SCHILLER,

I'm not sure if there's a correlation between having been sexually abused as a child and ovarian cancer. Although, undiagnosed STDs may play a role.

I do know how cancer of a parent can affect children.

Often the lighthearted childhood games and pretend morph into something completely different. Dark and dramatic.

Play involving a doll can change from a story centered on a living baby to dead babies. Darkess, violence, disease and death can permeate the childs play and dialougue of play.

 

[Agatha_C]

Dirk,

I just remembered HPV, whether it's the situation or not, I thought I would post the link (since it was brought up).

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papillomavirus[/ame]

 

[Mia]

Hey all, just recently started reading up on this case; until now I had really only heard what was reported in the late 90s, right after JB's murder, and I was a teenager then, so didn't pay much attention. Now I'm discovering what a truly fascinating case this is.

I truly believe the Ramseys did this, I'm leaning toward Patsy at the moment but there have been some persuasive arguments on these threads for both Burke and John as murderer. Aside from the massive amount of evidence pointing toward the Ramseys, and away from an intruder, can I just say that i find this family to be incredibly creepy. Poor JonBenet, to be born into such a mess. The beauty pageant thing has always really creeped me out. I read JonBenet was a natural brunette and that Patsy dyed and touched up her hair religiously - who would do that to a tiny girl? What kind of values does that instill? No doubt if JonBenet had survived and continued on that path with her mother she would have been plagued with emotional problems, probably eating disorders, and low self-esteem as a teenager. Botox and a boob job by 17, paid for by Daddy Ramsey. There is one picture of JB at one of her pageants, dressed in a white bathing suit like number with gold sash; her face is caked with paint, her hair is teased to the sky, and she's wearing hose, heels, and what looks like a feather headdress. she looks like a stripper. This poor, poor child! I just don't understand people like this. Just...creepy. I'll leave it there.

Oh, and I wanted to mention this case reminds me a whole lot of one that happened in wash dc in 2006 - the murder of robert wone. Same kind of situation - murder happened around midnight while the 3 residents of the house were supposedly 'sleeping' (no sign of forced entry or an intruder in the house), heavily staged crime scene that had clearly been tampered with, two different 'modes' of death - in this case suffocation and stabbing, strong suspicion victim had been sexually molested, no sign of a struggle, suspect 911 call, and of course strong denials by the residents that they had anything to do with it; according to them, it was a lone intruder who snuck in right after they had gone to bed. And, of course, sloppy police work. No one is in prison for this murder either, sadly. Like the Ramseys, the three residents/suspects have money, and lawyered up immediately with the best money could buy.

Anyway, just wanted to say hi to you all. i'm so very impressed with your thorough analyses of this case, and am in awe of you all. Thanks so very much for all that you do. still hoping for justice for this little girl one day.

 

[Agatha_C]

Welcome Mia, :woohoo:

Great post, you should do it more often. I'm pretty new myself, but I can assure you, you'll learn more here with these intelligent folks and others (Just kidding) then anywhere else. If they don't know it, they know where to find it.

So jump in, the waters warm!

 

[txsvicki]

Just reading since it's that time of year that JonBenet was murdered. About that scream that was mentioned: I thought the woman changed her story to some metaphysical new age type explanation of thinking she heard an inner scream or some nonsense?

Also, I posted the other nite on another thread about IDI. People overlook the Santa Clause connections. JonBenet insisted to her friend's Mom that Santa was coming to see her again after xmas. The pineapple could have been a snack put out for Santa, the rope could be playing reindeer, and JonBenet could have taken her own blanket and things to go on a trip with Santa or with his helper. It would have to be someone she'd previously talked to, knew, or who was very familiar with her home. Someone who killed her so they/he wouldn't be identified. It all seems sexually related and a sadistic game by someone who hated John. This person could have already molested JonBenet due to having access to her. I doubt if Patsy was really always all that observant of who JonBenet went around or talked to during all their socializing and pageantry. Then, there is the possibility that the person was going to actually try and abduct JonBenet and it all went wrong. The crazy ransom note was to throw everyone off from the fact that the person was known to JonBenet. If there were two of them, maybe they really were going to try and kidnap, get money, plus molestation.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

Dirk,

I just remembered HPV, whether it's the situation or not, I thought I would post the link (since it was brought up).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_papillomavirus

hi Agatha, what do you mean?
I know what HPV is but I dont know what you mean

I did not mean all women that had ovarian cancer have been abused,please read carefully

either I said all bedwetting children are afraid of their parents,

I just not believe JBR had any physical condition but emotional, she was under too much stress for sure,it is a hard profesion for an adult to be a model,so I can imagine for a 5 years old and you get more pressure when your mother or father is your manager,because you do not want to disappoint them.
here you have some links about ovarian cancer related to abuse(to name a few):

http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/Holistic_Cancer_Cure/Cancer_its_genesis_and_cure42004.asp

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Language-Your-Body-Essential/dp/
0980286557

Heal your body, by Louise Hay

what I said was, how 2 neighbors can hear a child screaming ,and going to bed as it nothing happens and at what distance were they from JBR´s bedroom comparing with the 3 R´s ?
they were maybe 2 floors upstairs, but still in same house

 

[my_tee_mouse]

hi Agatha, what do you mean?
I know what HPV is but I dont know what you mean

I did not mean all women that had ovarian cancer have been abused,please read carefully

either I said all bedwetting children are afraid of their parents,

I just not believe JBR had any physical condition but emotional, she was under too much stress for sure,it is a hard profesion for an adult to be a model,so I can imagine for a 5 years old and you get more pressure when your mother or father is your manager,because you do not want to disappoint them.
here you have some links about ovarian cancer related to abuse(to name a few):

http://www.lifepositive.com/Body/Holistic_Cancer_Cure/Cancer_its_genesis_and_cure42004.asp

http://www.amazon.com/Secret-Language-Your-Body-Essential/dp/
0980286557

Heal your body, by Louise Hay

what I said was, how 2 neighbors can hear a child screaming ,and going to bed as it nothing happens and at what distance were they from JBR´s bedroom comparing with the 3 R´s ?
they were maybe 2 floors upstairs, but still in same house

Your statement:
"did someone investigate PR ´s past since lot of ovaries cancer women have been abused as children?"

Your quoted source speaks of one patient with ovarian cancer and a history of sexual abuse and mentions that cervical cancer is common in prostitutes. She throws out far-sweeping comments and mentions "studies." What she does not do is cite studies or peer-reviewed articles and statistics that back up her theories.

Many of us agree whole-heartedly that there is definitely a mind/body connection with regard to illness and healing. There are MANY studies in that regard, and I can personally attest to it with regard to my own various and assorted "isms."

However, to claim that "lot of ovaries cancer women have been abused as children," and to use an online magazine article sans references or cites as the basis is hardly proof of a sexual abuse/ovarian cancer causation connection.

So I think, Dirk, that we did "please read carefully" your comment!

ETA: By the way: The second link you provide is not a functioning page.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

well mouse, I guess you have a problem by reading, a lot does not mean all

from millons of women all over the world with ovarian cancer, what does a lot means

second, I meant those are a few links

third,if the link is not working, it is not my problem, you can google it(that link was working)

4°, I said I´m not a private detective,not a professional, I just give my opinion the way you do too

5° I´m not pro R´s either contra

6° my comment was about PR maybe beeing abused as a child and not to discuss about cancer

7° english is not my first language, I did explain that from the very beginning

 

[my_tee_mouse]

well mouse, I guess you have a problem by reading, a lot does not mean all

from millons of women all over the world with ovarian cancer, what does a lot means

second, I meant those are a few links

third,if the link is not working, it is not my problem, you can google it(that link was working)

4°, I said I´m not a private detective,not a professional, I just give my opinion the way you do too

5° I´m not pro R´s either contra

6° my comment was about PR maybe beeing abused as a child and not to discuss about cancer

7° english is not my first language, I did explain that from the very beginning

I guess you're having a problem reading, because no one has said that you ever said "all." I do, however, have a problem with your "a lot" comment when you present as "evidence" an online magazine article that discusses one woman who happens to have ovarian cancer who happened to also be the victim of sexual abuse...i.e., that is hardly the basis for the statement that "a lot" of women who have ovarian cancer are the victims of sexual abuse...and a link to something on Amazon...a link that does not even work!

I find it interesting that twice you have told others to read more carefully, and yet you yourself want to hide behind the fact that English is not your first language. Pick a story and stick with it. You can't have it both ways.

Bottom line: You made a sweeping statement about there being a connection between ovarian cancer and sexual abuse, and you presented nothing to back it up. And believe me, I've tried to find valid, working links to valid research to back up your claims. In short, I apparently have put more legwork into backing up your statements than you have. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be any valid research studies to back up your "a lot" claim at this time.

"I said I´m not a private detective,not a professional, I just give my opinion the way you do too"
Actually, you have no clue whether I am a professional in this field or not, now do you? As it happens, I participated in a panel on child sexual abuse just yesterday.

 

[DIRK SCHILLER]

like you all americans say:get a life mouse
bye:croc:

 

[my_tee_mouse]

like you all americans say:get a life mouse
bye:croc:

:rotfl:

 

[kcabnroh]

I suppose it does not matter who can speak what language, and mouse I think if you misunderstood Dirk and then he explained himself you should just accept that and stop bickering back and forth you know? JMO though...



Anyway, back to the scream. I agree with Dirk if I am understanding him correctly about how the neighbors could hear the scream and not the parents inside the house. If i am remembering correctly, when I read 'Perfect Murder, Perfect Town', they talked about the neighbor and she explained that she did hear a scream but did not hear anything following it to make her worry so she went back to sleep. This makes sense if it is true, I believe you would not worry if you heard one scream and then nothing else. Does anyone agree? If she actually did hear the scream, then it would be true that the R's should have also heard the scream. The detectives spent time in the house conducting the scream tests. If the scream was real, and loud enough to be heard all the way across the street then why did the R's not wake up if it was an intruder?

 

[freshwater]

I wonder if the scream ever really happened.

From Steve Thomas' book: "More than a year later we would discover that Stanton also told the detective, “It may not have been an audible scream but rather the negative energy radiating from JonBenét.” The detective returned to that odd point several times during the interview, but Stanton never again mentioned the “negative energy”. She insisted that she heard an audible scream, so the detective did not include the “negative energy” comment in his report. A year later he was ordered to write an amended report" (Thomas 2000a:78-79).

 

[MurriFlower]

Just reading since it's that time of year that JonBenet was murdered. About that scream that was mentioned: I thought the woman changed her story to some metaphysical new age type explanation of thinking she heard an inner scream or some nonsense?

Also, I posted the other nite on another thread about IDI. People overlook the Santa Clause connections. JonBenet insisted to her friend's Mom that Santa was coming to see her again after xmas. The pineapple could have been a snack put out for Santa, the rope could be playing reindeer, and JonBenet could have taken her own blanket and things to go on a trip with Santa or with his helper. It would have to be someone she'd previously talked to, knew, or who was very familiar with her home. Someone who killed her so they/he wouldn't be identified. It all seems sexually related and a sadistic game by someone who hated John. This person could have already molested JonBenet due to having access to her. I doubt if Patsy was really always all that observant of who JonBenet went around or talked to during all their socializing and pageantry. Then, there is the possibility that the person was going to actually try and abduct JonBenet and it all went wrong. The crazy ransom note was to throw everyone off from the fact that the person was known to JonBenet. If there were two of them, maybe they really were going to try and kidnap, get money, plus molestation.

Wow, that sounds a bit like my theory. Do we have another latent IDI here by any chance??

 

[kcabnroh]

I wonder if the scream ever really happened.

From Steve Thomas' book: "More than a year later we would discover that Stanton also told the detective, “It may not have been an audible scream but rather the negative energy radiating from JonBenét.” The detective returned to that odd point several times during the interview, but Stanton never again mentioned the “negative energy”. She insisted that she heard an audible scream, so the detective did not include the “negative energy” comment in his report. A year later he was ordered to write an amended report" (Thomas 2000a:78-79).

I just read this book! I remembered that this was mentioned in there but I didnt have the book on me so I did not want to quote it without the exact words, so thanks! I too wonder if the scream really happened. Also, she did not want to get involved with the case so at first she said she knew/saw/heard nothing, then also changed her mind saying she heard the scream and then said what you just quoted. I wonder if it was real too.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I suppose it does not matter who can speak what language, and mouse I think if you misunderstood Dirk and then he explained himself you should just accept that and stop bickering back and forth you know? JMO though...



Anyway, back to the scream. I agree with Dirk if I am understanding him correctly about how the neighbors could hear the scream and not the parents inside the house. If i am remembering correctly, when I read 'Perfect Murder, Perfect Town', they talked about the neighbor and she explained that she did hear a scream but did not hear anything following it to make her worry so she went back to sleep. This makes sense if it is true, I believe you would not worry if you heard one scream and then nothing else. Does anyone agree? If she actually did hear the scream, then it would be true that the R's should have also heard the scream. The detectives spent time in the house conducting the scream tests. If the scream was real, and loud enough to be heard all the way across the street then why did the R's not wake up if it was an intruder?

I think you need to read the whole "conversation." I did not misunderstand anyone. Dirk explained nothing. And now, if you insist on being the thread police, I suggest maybe YOU go back and read...carefully...before you start moderating!