Norway Norway - Isdalen, WhtFem 503UFNOR, multiple aliases, multilingual, Nov'70

[dotr]

After 46 years it seems to be a breakthrough in this case - they have found teeths and tissue samples from her remains hidden in a archive at the local hospital so hopefully they will have enough to get a DNA-profile soon according to this https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/nye-funn-kan-lose-isdals-gaten-1.13124781 ( - in norwegian). Maybe she will finally be identified ?

Thanks for posting this exciting and unexpected news, although unable to understand the language, the video embedded in your link helps!
https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/gaten-i-isdalen-1.13182053

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

That's amazing! I hope it is enough!

 

[MelmothTheLost]

After 46 years it seems to be a breakthrough in this case - they have found teeths and tissue samples from her remains hidden in a archive at the local hospital so hopefully they will have enough to get a DNA-profile soon according to this https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/nye-funn-kan-lose-isdals-gaten-1.13124781 ( - in norwegian). Maybe she will finally be identified ?

Wow. This is SO exciting. This has been one of the most interesting cases for me since I first read about it but I really never expected there to be any possibility of progress on it, especially as there have been suggestions that the police bungling of the case was more akin to a cover up. Now the police are actively reopening the case, which is really excellent news.

I ran the story through Google translate. Unlike many such "translations", this one is fluent and very understandable so it's well worth doing to read the details.

It seems as though NRK is going to be following the progress of the new investigation and there will be follow up reports in due course.

The embedded video was also helpful, though I can't say I understood anything other than kvinnen (the woman) and Isdal. However, the original stills from the investigation are the first photos I've seen of her body in situ.

There's every possibility that she has still living siblings or children and that this case really can be resolved, at least in so far as giving her her name back.

Having tooth samples they should be able to narrow down her origins as a starting point.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I strongly recommend going through all the linked articles and running them through Google translate. There's a huge amount of information here which I have not seen before, especially detailing all the work the police did to try to identify her at the time.

From what I can see, the police did as good a job as could be expected at the time with the technology and resources available to them, but eventually gave up when they ran out of things to try. The suicide theory does not seem to have been accepted by all the police involved in the investigation by any means, though some accounts I've seen suggest that was the consensus view at the time. Many were convinced it was murder all along. If I understand correctly one of the newspaper headlines from the time she was burned alive, which no doubt explains why her killers forced her to swallow a lot of pills and some booze.

The video clips seem to be extracts from a substantial documentary broadcast on 17th October. We really could do with a English subtitled version turning up on YouTube.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Apparently there are going to be frequent (daily?) updates as the new investigation progresses. Someone on Reddit is posting translations of the salient information asap after it is published.

https://www.reddit.com/r/UnresolvedMysteries/comments/57z30o/update_in_the_isdal_woman_case/

 

[MelmothTheLost]

I suppose that could simply have been precautionary, but equally it may indicate that those responsible for her death seriously thought her fingerprints might well be on file somewhere.

One thing which has come out of the recent updates is that her fingerprints were not "sanded off", and this may be down to misunderstanding, poor translation from Norwegian or whatever.

In fact the Norwegian authorities have a full set of her fingerprints taken from her body.

Where the confusion may have arisen is that it's been reported that her fingerprints were wiped from the outside of her case that was found at the railway station, but that there were one or two fingerprints on one lens of a pair of sunglasses inside the suitcase. It was matching those prints to those taken from the body which proved the case was hers.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

There is a new article with a number of new artist's reconstructions of the Isdal Woman:

https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13137112

Perhaps I'm too used to seeing the original rough drawing, but the new drawings just do not have the "look" of the late 1960s or 1970 to me. The large, central image has the sort of straight, flicked out hair typical of the time and as shown in the original sketch, but not really the facial structure and shape shown in the original.

I ran this article through Google translate and it came out as gobbledygook.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

It has just struck me that there is something possibly Tatar or Central Asian about the original sketch - the black hair, almond-shaped eyes and the skin tone - that isn't captured in the new sketches.

Maybe I'm being influenced by earlier ideas of her being a Russian/Soviet spy, but it would chime with the obvious "foreignness" witnesses ascribed to this woman. It would also explain reports of her extensive dental work being typical of Eastern Europe, though I know it has also been described as typical of Latin American dental work.

 

[dotr]

It has just struck me that there is something possibly Tatar or Central Asian about the original sketch - the black hair, almond-shaped eyes and the skin tone - that isn't captured in the new sketches.

Maybe I'm being influenced by earlier ideas of her being a Russian/Soviet spy, but it would chime with the obvious "foreignness" witnesses ascribed to this woman. It would also explain reports of her extensive dental work being typical of Eastern Europe, though I know it has also been described as typical of Latin American dental work.

https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13137112

 

[kemo]

From what I have read, she told the Italian photographer, Giovanni Trimboli, that she was from South Africa. This is somewhat consistent with the report that she spoke "Belgium" . Obviously, there is no Belgium language but many people there speak Dutch ( or Flemish as it might be called). The majority of White people in South Africa speak Afrikaans, which is similar to Dutch. While many educated people learn to speak English French and German, few bother to learn Dutch because most native born Dutch speakers speak one of the other three languages. Anyone who speaks Dutch probably has ties to The Netherlands, Belgium or South Africa.

 

[STANDREID]

Sharon Kinne, a serial killer who escaped from a Mexican prison in December of 1969 and was never recaptured.

 

[STANDREID]

https://www.nrk.no/dokumentar/xl/er-dette-isdalskvinna_-1.13137112

IW and Sharon Kinne on the same page:

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Sharon Kinne, a serial killer who escaped from a Mexican prison in December of 1969 and was never recaptured.

An interesting idea, though I see a number of difficulties.

1. Sharon escaped from prison on or about 7 December 1969, and the Isdal Woman appears on 20 March 1970 when she travels from Geneva to Oslo. This would require Kinne to get from Mexico to Switzerland in fairly short order. Not impossible, and as a criminal she would probably have access to a supplier of fake passports.
2. Various witnesses report that Isdal Woman spoke a number of languages - is there any evidence that Kinne spoke any other than English (and presumably some Spanish)?
3. Kinne had arrests in both the US and Mexico, where presumably her fingerprints were taken. The Isdal Woman's fingerprints were circulated via Interpol but did not find a match from existing databases.

If IW was Kinne, who do you think the men were who were involved in her death? If they were legitimate law enforcement agents, surely they could have arranged her extradition to the US or Mexico rather than killing her.

 

[STANDREID]

An interesting idea, though I see a number of difficulties.

1. Sharon escaped from prison on or about 7 December 1969, and the Isdal Woman appears on 20 March 1970 when she travels from Geneva to Oslo. This would require Kinne to get from Mexico to Switzerland in fairly short order. Not impossible, and as a criminal she would probably have access to a supplier of fake passports.
2. Various witnesses report that Isdal Woman spoke a number of languages - is there any evidence that Kinne spoke any other than English (and presumably some Spanish)?
3. Kinne had arrests in both the US and Mexico, where presumably her fingerprints were taken. The Isdal Woman's fingerprints were circulated via Interpol but did not find a match from existing databases.

If IW was Kinne, who do you think the men were who were involved in her death? If they were legitimate law enforcement agents, surely they could have arranged her extradition to the US or Mexico rather than killing her.

I don't really see that the time is a issue.

Kinne was fluent in Spanish-don't know about any others.

Were the prints checked after the computer age? If not, then Kinne's file would have to be specifically pulled and compared visually with IW. The prints (or DNA) would eliminate her for sure.

I don't see that either Wiki article on the two women mentions the other so maybe I'm way off.

Who knows about the men but I have little doubt that she had some criminal associates if she was able to get out of prison and flee the county. Perhaps she fell afoul with them-just speculation.

 

[kemo]

Kinney came from lower middle class background and did not attend college. I doubt she spoke adequate French and German. It is a real mystery what happened to her. I suspect she established a new identity in the US and is likely still alive.

 

[adian_69]

Do any of you think she looks like Mildred Batoche?

I dont find much information about Ms. Batoche online though. Heres the photo comparison:

Although, Ms. Batoche had a tattoo and I dont know about the Isdal woman, I wasnt able to find out much about her features. I am solely judging by name, but Batoche sounds French, so it's possible she could have spoken French.

 

[Jigoku Dayu]

Sharon Kinne was blonde, four inches taller than IW, had a "red port wine" scar on the left side of her face, and a skin pigmentation disease. IW was described being very attractive, and maybe it's just me, but Kinne was gawky-looking. I don't see anything but the faintest resemblance. Also, I don't think she'd be able to learn how hide her American accent in that short of time, in addition to learning all those languages. If there's one accent that Europeans would recognize, I would think it'd be an American one. Add to that what Melmoth and Kemo said, and I do not think Kinne is at all viable.

Mildred Batoche looks more like IW, but in additon to the tattoo, she was also much younger. There doesn't seem to be any other information on her, so it's hard to judge.

 

[adian_69]

Sharon Kinne was blonde, four inches taller than IW, had a "red port wine" scar on the left side of her face, and a skin pigmentation disease. IW was described being very attractive, and maybe it's just me, but Kinne was gawky-looking. I don't see anything but the faintest resemblance. Also, I don't think she'd be able to learn how hide her American accent in that short of time, in addition to learning all those languages. If there's one accent that Europeans would recognize, I would think it'd be an American one. Add to that what Melmoth and Kemo said, and I do not think Kinne is at all viable.

Mildred Batoche looks more like IW, but in additon to the tattoo, she was also much younger. There doesn't seem to be any other information on her, so it's hard to judge.

How old was the Isdal woman supposed to be? I seem to be having a difficult time locating much on her besides the fact she was 5'5. I kind of had the impression that not much info was given from the autopsy because on her doe network profile I saw no eye color listed (I assumed it was brown from the new sketch).

Sorry, im probably just having a brainfart moment here. Are there more solid details about the IW i've missed?

Edit: I guess what i'm trying to say is that I had the impression that her description/age etc. Was given from witness accounts and not from a coroner.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

How old was the Isdal woman supposed to be?.

Her age was estimated as between 30 and 40, so most likely born sometime during the 1930s.

 

[MelmothTheLost]

Incidentally, I notice that the original thread on this case has been restored and the recently started one amalgamated with it. This is great news for anyone not familiar with earlier discussions about it.

Thanks to the Mods.