Norway Norway - Oslo - WhtFem 20-30 - Fake Name - Shot in Hotel Room - 3 June 1995 #2

[maestro]

I would like to retract my previous statement about the Isdal Woman being a Mossad agent. This case is so difficult to figure out what happened to Isdalen woman and who she is.

If this is true:

In June 2023, the Swiss newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung (New Journal of Zürich) published a story about an insurance fact checker who became intrigued by the mystery of the Isdal woman. According to the unnamed fact checker's research, the unidentified woman was linked to the Swiss banker François Genoud. He was a supporter of Hitler and his Nazi ideology. He was also friends with Wadi Haddad, a Palestinian terrorist leader. Inquiries have placed the Isdal woman in Paris at the same time as Genoud and Haddad. This raises the question—was the Isdal woman a Palestinian agent and did the Israeli foreign intelligence service Mossad have anything to do with her death?

from this website: Isdalen Woman connection to Swiss banker

I never heard of Palestinian spy from West Germany. She could be either Mossad or Palestinian spy. I knew that she was somehow linked to Israel and Palestine conflict.

This would make sense why she looked Mediterranean if she was Palestinian spy. Her facial features also didn't look like someone from Israel but still someone/or her parents from Middle East region.

I don't think the Mossad killed the Isdalen woman. A young man with his father saw a woman who looked like the Isdalen woman walk up the mountain with two men which I think were Norwegian agents.

Prior to her death, the Isdalen woman was caught taking pictures of testing sites of NATO/Norwegian weapons by two Norwegian Fisher men from Bergen. They reported her to Norwegian police.

I believe that Norwegian police/spy agency abducted her from the train station where she was about to leave Bergen. Her luggage was found at the train station.

Then two Norwegian agents told her to walk with them up the hill. Forced her to eat 50 pills and after that burned her alive. She was alive when she was burned because of the fencing position which are natural reflex of your body when something bad is happening to you.

Compared to Jennifer Fergate case, Norwegian agencies & Government did little to no help with solving the Isdalen woman case.



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Yeah I like that angle, you think the baggage that turned up was staged then?

 

[maestro]

I would like to retract my previous statement about the Isdal Woman being a Mossad agent. This case is so difficult to figure out what happened to Isdalen woman and who she is.

If this is true:

In June 2023, the Swiss newspaper Neue Zürcher Zeitung (New Journal of Zürich) published a story about an insurance fact checker who became intrigued by the mystery of the Isdal woman. According to the unnamed fact checker's research, the unidentified woman was linked to the Swiss banker François Genoud. He was a supporter of Hitler and his Nazi ideology. He was also friends with Wadi Haddad, a Palestinian terrorist leader. Inquiries have placed the Isdal woman in Paris at the same time as Genoud and Haddad. This raises the question—was the Isdal woman a Palestinian agent and did the Israeli foreign intelligence service Mossad have anything to do with her death?

from this website: Isdalen Woman connection to Swiss banker

I never heard of Palestinian spy from West Germany. She could be either Mossad or Palestinian spy. I knew that she was somehow linked to Israel and Palestine conflict.

This would make sense why she looked Mediterranean if she was Palestinian spy. Her facial features also didn't look like someone from Israel but still someone/or her parents from Middle East region.

I don't think the Mossad killed the Isdalen woman. A young man with his father saw a woman who looked like the Isdalen woman walk up the mountain with two men which I think were Norwegian agents.

Prior to her death, the Isdalen woman was caught taking pictures of testing sites of NATO/Norwegian weapons by two Norwegian Fisher men from Bergen. They reported her to Norwegian police.

I believe that Norwegian police/spy agency abducted her from the train station where she was about to leave Bergen. Her luggage was found at the train station.

Then two Norwegian agents told her to walk with them up the hill. Forced her to eat 50 pills and after that burned her alive. She was alive when she was burned because of the fencing position which are natural reflex of your body when something bad is happening to you.

Compared to Jennifer Fergate case, Norwegian agencies & Government did little to no help with solving the Isdalen woman case.



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I’m more inclined to think she was there for the oil if you look at her movements Bergen, stravanger, trondheim, I’m going kgb

 

[CrossNokind]

Yeah I like that angle, you think the baggage that turned up was staged then?

It wasn't stage in my opinion. I think Norwegian agents just told to follow them and might have not seeing the baggage she was carrying with her. The Norwegian police found her baggage but I read that they were told not to look deep into this case by Government.

I really think that the Fisher men alerted to Bergen Police of strange woman taking pictures of rockets being shot. They apparently saw her not far from their boat. She was seen twice ( or more) by those Fisher men.

I think when the Isdalen woman was trying to leave Bergen via train station with Baggage. The ticket agent might have alerted the Police if she had a notice out there for her arrest.

 

[CrossNokind]

I’m more inclined to think she was there for the oil if you look at her movements Bergen, stravanger, trondheim, I’m going kgb

this Isdalen case could related to a lot of things/agencies. There are little to no information. I like your angle as well. It makes sense.

 

[maestro]

this Isdalen case could related to a lot of things/agencies. There are little to no information. I like your angle as well. It makes sense.

Yeah I know it coincides with the penguin missile, but Norway always a very neutral country. Strange one. as the one later seems a more political placing

 

[Marantz4250b]

Someone gifted me a WS Guardianship - many thanks to whoever it was

 

[RookieWebsleuth2024]

Can you provide a link to a report stating this?

I'm not aware of any credible report mentioning so much blood and it being "everywhere".

I'm so sorry for the delay in answering. So if you look at the photo of her holding the gun, you can see blood spilled on her buttons, the stain is very obvious. I don't know if I may post it here, but it is easy to find. Also, there is mention in the documentary (Unsolved Mysteries) that there was blood spatter that reached the ceiling. In the short Norwegian documentary, available on YouTube, there is an interview with the male receptionist who said the police showed him a photograph of the victim, and he could see the wall behind her which was full of blood, as he said. Specifically, he said "the wall behind her was horrific" and "she was lying in a pool of blood." Check out this documentary. It is in Norwegian, but it has good subtitles:

 

[GracefulD1an]

Has anyone thought of “Jennifer” having a connection to Britain? According to a video covering her watch it is mentioned as being the preferred watch of, among other special operation groups, UK special operations. And the UK just so happens to have a good alliance with Norway. I’m thinking political attaché possibly. Maybe she had a significant other who served in the special operations who gifted her that watch.

I’m thinking this scenario: “Jennifer” is born in East Germany but her family somehow manages to flee to Britain when she is a teen, getting refugee status. She grows up and gets a job connected to a politician in the UK, perhaps working for the British ambassador to Norway. She ends up having an affair with a colleague (“Mr. Fergate”), someone who served in the special operations unit. She keeps on waiting for him to propose but he keeps brushing it off, saying wait until he gets a promotion. Eventually she misses her period. She suspects she’s pregnant and decides to tell her affair partner to give the potential child stability. He doesn’t react the way she expected. She then tells him she’s going to tell their boss the truth of their affair, possibly to pressure him to marry her and avoid a scandal. He decides in that moment he needs to get rid of her so he creates this elaborate plan of killing her in a hotel that he hopes will never lead back to him and his family.

Problems that lie with this scenario is lack of details about the autopsy report, the wide number of people who worked as attachés who would own an Aqualand watch, how deep this control goes and a seeming lack of prenatal vitamins in her possessions. Also why claim she was Belgian? Was it her affair partner’s idea?

 

[partybagel]

I've been working on a theory about Jennifer Fairgate recently. I was thinking that maybe she would have been reported missing in the years leading up to her death. My reasoning for this is that she may have disappeared when she went off the grid, possibly for some type of spy or undercover work or possibly to leave her previous life behind. She could have lived undercover for several years, traveling around before her death in 1995. It has been widely assumed that she was likely German. With this information I went through InterPol and found a woman by the name of Ines Heider who disappeared from Germany in 1990 at the age of 26. She strongly resembles Ms. Fairgate and is from the same country of origin. Although there is some discrepancy in height, heights have been inaccurate for other individuals in the past. Their eye color, face shape and age all align nicely and if she were to disappear off the grid for several years because of whatever work she was involved in this would explain the 5 year age gap. Attached is a comparison of the 2 women with Ms. Fairgate on the left and Ms. Heider on the right. Let me know what you all think!! Thank you for giving this Doe and Ms. Heider a moment of your time.

 

[Beekarina]

I wonder if Imelda Keenan was ever considered?

Brown hair, blue eyes, 5ft 3. Born in 1971, disappeared in 1994.

She was from Ireland, no idea if she knew any other languages.

https://www.doenetwork.org/cases/software/mp-main.html?id=1257dfirl

 

[GracefulD1an]

Mhm…”Jennifer’s” hair is depicted as ebony/raven black, Imelda has ash brown hair. For her to be “Jennifer” she would need to dye her hair and eyebrows black and have it cut short. Also being from Ireland I would think she would speak with an Irish lilt depending on which part of Ireland she was from, not with a noticeable German accent. So it really depends on various factors.

 

[Beekarina]

It was only one hotel staff member who said "Jennifer" had an accent, right? I could be remembering incorrectly, but I believe she had relatively brief interactions, and only one person thought there was an East German accent.

Not saying they were wrong, since it also matches the isotope analysis, but that has also been off in other cases.

It would be interesting to know more about what the hotel staff actually heard Jennifer say. In a way, it is probably somewhat amazing they remember as much as they do, since it doesn't seem as though anyone really had much of an interaction with her.

 

[Beekarina]

WARNING POSTMORTEM OF JENNIFER APPEARS AGAIN BELOW.....


So I asked AI to give a short spiky haircut to Imedla and Ines Heider. I think Ines is a great match background wise, but her features seem stronger/heavier than "Jennifer's" post-mortem. I have wondered if the sketch of Jennifer contributes to people who knew her in life not recognizing her?

I am NOT making the strong case that Imelda and Jennifer are the same person. I think it is a stretch, but do wonder who is compared since the systems are so different.

More that Jennifer was someone with delicate bone structure/petite like Imelda.

Also, Ines seems to have very different ears and nose? Thoughts?

 

[GracefulD1an]

They do look similar (although I don’t see “Jennifer” in slight profile so we could see if the noses are the same). In fact I might mistake them for sisters.

 

[Beekarina]

I do wonder if Jennifer may have been Irish.....I also decided to ask AI what she may have looked like alive, based on her post mortem images, physical states, and blue eyes. There really is something similar to Imelda, even though again, I am not making the case they are the same. Just a similar type.

Not sure it is respectful to share such an altered image, but it should give similar results for others who try. I asked Grok.

Also, strangely there was a man who behaved in a weird manner in Ireland, thought to be German, and was found deceased with no money, no ID and all the identifying tags removed from his clothes. (which he had been discarding prior to his death.). Another strange case, if people are not familiar.

Made me wonder if Peter Bergman was Lois Fairgate? Or somehow connected if Jennifer was Irish.....Probably a totally off the wall train of thought, but you never know, and such an old case.....

E

Ireland Thread 'Ireland - Sligo, WhtMale, 50-70, aka 'Peter Bergmann', prostate cancer, Jun'09'

Jul 1, 2015

Fellow sleuthers, this one's perplexing to say the least. In 2009, a white male - estimated to be between 50 and 70 years old - arrives in the beachside town of Sligo, Ireland, by bus; checks into a hotel with a presumably false name; and pays in cash. Four days later his body is found on a nearby beach. No evidence of drowning; foul play is ruled out. The labels on his clothes and his bags are missing, and he has no ID on him. The name he gives at check-in - Peter Bergmann - is submitted to several international databases. Nothing is found - he didn't exist.

What...

• Estelle1
• Replies: 252
• Forum: The Unidentified

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[Marantz4250b]

This whole thing of removing labels from clothes seems to crop up in a few cases - I can't name any off the top of my head, but I seem to hear it more than I'd expect to, tbh.

I'm beginning to think that it isn't as uncommon, or unusual, or indicative of anything nefarious, as people seem to be suggesting.

Does anyone here actually do this, or know anyone who does?

 

[branmuffin]

It was only one hotel staff member who said "Jennifer" had an accent, right? I could be remembering incorrectly, but I believe she had relatively brief interactions, and only one person thought there was an East German accent.

Not saying they were wrong, since it also matches the isotope analysis, but that has also been off in other cases.

It would be interesting to know more about what the hotel staff actually heard Jennifer say. In a way, it is probably somewhat amazing they remember as much as they do, since it doesn't seem as though anyone really had much of an interaction with her.

Wouldn't any foreigner sound like they had an accent, though? Depending on what language they were speaking? Norwegians have about a 90% proficiency in English. There is language crossover where Swedes and Danes can understand Norse and vice versa. 'Having an accent' seems like a red herring in a country that uses English in business, can understand other languages enough to get by, and have several dialects withing the same geographical area.

 

[Beekarina]

This whole thing of removing labels from clothes seems to crop up in a few cases - I can't name any off the top of my head, but I seem to hear it more than I'd expect to, tbh.

I'm beginning to think that it isn't as uncommon, or unusual, or indicative of anything nefarious, as people seem to be suggesting.

Does anyone here actually do this, or know anyone who does?

I remove tags some of the time. It depends on where they are located and the material. I agree with you that simply removing a tag here and there does not mean someone is a spy or trying to erase clues about their identity.

What IS unique/strange in these cases is all of the tags/labels were removed, and there appears to also have been a coordinated attempt to remove/disguise any trace of identity. False names, false addresses, clothing and other belongings discarded by "Jennifer", "Peter" and probably in "Jennifer's" case, by someone else as well.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Wouldn't any foreigner sound like they had an accent, though? Depending on what language they were speaking? Norwegians have about a 90% proficiency in English. There is language crossover where Swedes and Danes can understand Norse and vice versa. 'Having an accent' seems like a red herring in a country that uses English in business, can understand other languages enough to get by, and have several dialects withing the same geographical area.

I get what you're saying but my guess is that young-ish staff at an international hotel would very likely be able to identify a German accent.

Norway has had a throughput of people from all over the Wold, especially Europe for a long time now due to the oil and gas industry.

 

[Beekarina]

Wouldn't any foreigner sound like they had an accent, though? Depending on what language they were speaking? Norwegians have about a 90% proficiency in English. There is language crossover where Swedes and Danes can understand Norse and vice versa. 'Having an accent' seems like a red herring in a country that uses English in business, can understand other languages enough to get by, and have several dialects withing the same geographical area.

If I have it correct, one staff member said "Jennifer" spoke with an East German accent. I am not 100% positive, but I think this is the staff member who spoke with "Jennifer" on the phone. So you could also ask, how do we know who she was really speaking with? It could have been anyone....

Te others claim Jennifer spoke fluent English and German without an accent. This is clearly open to interpretation.

All of the mainland Nordic languages are understandable to a degree by speakers of one, yes, but it would be easier to read them. They all have some different words, and Danish, for example sounds quite different from Norwegian or Swedish. (I have Swedish ancestry, have travelled with Swedish friends in Denmark and Norway so some personal experience of this myself and with people who are Native speakers.)

Of course some people are REALLY good with languages and with accents. Maybe "Jennifer" was one? It also does not sound as if "Jennifer" was engaged in lengthy chats with anyone at the hotel. I do not know how much stock we can put into observations of "Jennifer" speaking fluently, with no accent. This is opinion, likely based on brief exchanges or overheard observations. I would put it more that the staff remembered Jennifer spoke English and German. I think Jennifer could be from anywhere, personally. JMO!