Norway Norway - Oslo, WhtFem 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

[PatLaurel]

I don't think that anyone is passing judgement on her. Just noting a fact of the case.

It's passing judgement on sex workers and on women who go commando.
Not all sex workers go commando nor all women who go commando are sex workers.

MOO JMO JMOO

You can't really say that something is suspicious unless you know how other similar cases are dealt with. I'm not sure that they actually "closed" the case but if you have exhausted every avenue of investigation then you'd stop working on it until some other facts came along. The police had no ID; no travel documents; very few personal effects and had interviewed all the witnesses they could find. They kept her body for a year in case someone came looking for her - which seems to be the accepted period in Norway. The files and evidence didn't go missing, as far as I understand, the gun still exists as do the photos. Her clothing was destroyed which, again, seems the usual course of action there.

Actually i can say whatever i want, it's MOO and JMO. And yes, i can find this case suspicious. I find the lack of blood on her hands suspicious and i also find suspicious how, after only 5 hours, the police released the room to come to the conclusion with "99.9% certainty” that her death was a suicide. I find everything suspicious! Everything! It's my opinion and my interpretation of the things i read about this case!

MOO JMO

And, can you please stop challenging everything i say? If you don't agree with my point of view just ignore me.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

The gun wasn't mutilated; either the photo was tampered with or it was badly exposed when being copied. The gun is in the possession of the police and is in one piece. There is no evidential reason I can think of that would require a firearm to be physically altered, and certainly not that radically.

Agreed.

 

[ApparentlyInDenial]

Right. Wearing french knickers and no spares in the room.

I highly doubt that a knickers fetishist took her underwear. Generally these kinky trophy hunters prefer the underwear worn by the "victims" during their interaction together.

MO JMO MOO JMOO

Goodness.

 

[Marantz4250b]

At one point, the gun was sent to be destroyed. It was only by chance that it was found. Apparently, the only reason it was kept was to serve as an example of a weapon with missing serial numbers.

Mystery at the Oslo Plaza

Yes, I think that was mentioned in the documentary. That surely demonstrates the lack of conspiracy/cover-up and bolsters the fact that the police were acting according to their usual procedures? The gun was marked for destruction but was retained for practical policing purposes. If there were some dodgy activity going on then surely those behind it would have ensured that the gun was disappeared.

 

[Beekarina]

There is so much about this case that is weird.

If you simply wish to end your life, why would you go to so much trouble?

Why would you:

-Make hotel arrangements, then alter them?
-Make hotel arrangements at an upscale hotel?
-Under an alias, using false address, etc.

(Assuming she traveled, why even bother to do this? Why not kill yourself in Belgium, or Germany or wherever?)

-Why leave the hotel for 20-24 hours? Why not just get on with it?

-Why cut all the labels so carefully out of your clothes?

-You want to end your life? OK. Why do all of your undies go away? Your toothbrush? Your skirt, and any other clothing for the bottom half of your body?

-Why bother ordering room service? OK, you want a last meal, maybe. Your last meal is a few bites of sausage and potato salad....A DAY AFTER YOU ORDERED IT??? Gross. And weird....very weird.

So then, you decide to shoot yourself, with a messed up hinky gun, with enough bullets to shoot up the entire floor you're staying on, and somehow your hands are nice and neat, everything falls just so....

Nope, not weird at all. If I was depressed & suicidal , I would definitely have the energy to coordinate all of this....

 

[Marantz4250b]

It always bothers me that the description mentions black hair, possibly died. How difficult would it have been to test a few strands of hair to find out if it was in fact dyed. Not that I think there was something suspicious about her having dyed hair but it would allow for a more accurate description of someone.

Most people associate blue eyes with a fairer complexion and lighter coloured hair. My dad had black hair, olive toned skin and cornflower blue eyes. My daughter has black hair, fair complexion with pale blue eyes like this woman. So it would have behooved them to do a little test.

I guess suicides are a dime a dozen and investigations may be based on impressions. But this 'suicide' had items of clothing missing along with a suitcase meaning she hadn't been alone. She gave a fictitious name, address and company on her check in card. Plus there's also that pesky fact of a briefcase filled with bullets and a gun with the serial numbers removed.

As for the discrepancies regarding the dimensions of the weapon. We know in many investigations evidence goes missing. Perhaps after taking apart the weapon that provided us with details of how it was a mix of different parts they actually misplaced the original gun.

IMO, talking about light and shadows on the photo doesn't alter the fact that the dimensions of the gun shown in two comparison photos illustrate they are off by several centimetres.

You can't take that gun apart in such a manner so that it would be radically shortened forward of the receiver which is basically where it is shortened in the pic. The other thing is that that picture is of it in her hand before they removed it so it obviously hadn't been touched at that point. The gun was complete and assembled when the evidence pictures were taken at the crime lab. It's definitely the same gun as was in her hand as the marks on the rear part of the slide are the same.

Again though, if the police wanted it to disappear then it would have done. They decided to keep it as an exhibit gun though which tends to suggest against any cover-up theory.

 

[Beekarina]

Yes, I think that was mentioned in the documentary. That surely demonstrates the lack of conspiracy/cover-up and bolsters the fact that the police were acting according to their usual procedures? The gun was marked for destruction but was retained for practical policing purposes. If there were some dodgy activity going on then surely those behind it would have ensured that the gun was disappeared.

Or it isn't the same weapon. I realize this doesn't fit with your way of thinking. You have a different approach, and I'm not discounting it. I'm not sure who, or what is behind the strangeness here, but I firmly believe there is something foul that went on.

 

[Marantz4250b]

It's passing judgement on sex workers and on women who go commando.
Not all sex workers go commando nor all women who go commando are sex workers.

MOO JMO JMOO



Actually i can say whatever i want, it's MOO and JMO. And yes, i can find this case suspicious. I find the lack of blood on her hands suspicious and i also find suspicious how, after only 5 hours, the police released the room to come to the conclusion with "99.9% certainty” that her death was a suicide. I find everything suspicious! Everything! It's my opinion and my interpretation of the things i read about this case!

MOO JMO

And, can you please stop challenging everything i say? If you don't agree with my point of view just ignore me.

It isn't and it certainly isn't from me. I even said that I went out with a very classy girl a while back who dressed similarly so certainly wasn't passing judgement. One of my previous posts many pages back also made the point that I was not judging her lifestyle if she was a sex worker. I genuinely have no issue with it.

 

[PatLaurel]

"Audun Kristiansen from the Oslo police force told Netflix that they had not found any traces of other people in the room. There was no sign of struggle either. (...)"

You open the door to someone you know, the person shots you dead at point blank range and, the absence of signs of struggle is enough to rule your death a suicide??? Suspicious. JMO

"Torleiv Ole Rognum, MD, PH.D., chief pathologist at the University of Oslo, questioned the forensic conclusions, (...) I don’t think I’ve ever seen a case with no blood stains on the hand.”

Show me a suicide by gunshot where the victim had no residue on the hands, nor blood and most importantly didn't suffer the recoil effect.

"Ola Kaldager, group leader of the Norwegian secret service E14 (...) noticed that intelligence agents could easily break in and make the door look like it was locked from the inside."

Even a fiver year old knows that. Hotel security staff know it and "less honest" hotel housekeepers know it too!

Plus, the lack of ID, the fake name, fake address, fake phone number etc.

You still think i can't find how the investigation was conducted suspicious, @Marantz4250b?

MOO JMO

Who Killed Jennifer Fairgate? - Reddit Theories on the Oslo Hotel

 

[Marantz4250b]

There is so much about this case that is weird.

If you simply wish to end your life, why would you go to so much trouble?

Why would you:

-Make hotel arrangements, then alter them?
-Make hotel arrangements at an upscale hotel?
-Under an alias, using false address, etc.

(Assuming she traveled, why even bother to do this? Why not kill yourself in Belgium, or Germany or wherever?)

-Why leave the hotel for 20-24 hours? Why not just get on with it?

-Why cut all the labels so carefully out of your clothes?

-You want to end your life? OK. Why do all of your undies go away? Your toothbrush? Your skirt, and any other clothing for the bottom half of your body?

-Why bother ordering room service? OK, you want a last meal, maybe. Your last meal is a few bites of sausage and potato salad....A DAY AFTER YOU ORDERED IT??? Gross. And weird....very weird.

So then, you decide to shoot yourself, with a messed up hinky gun, with enough bullets to shoot up the entire floor you're staying on, and somehow your hands are nice and neat, everything falls just so....

Nope, not weird at all. If I was depressed & suicidal , I would definitely have the energy to coordinate all of this....

The assumption seems to be (or one of them, at any rate) the she checked in to the hotel specifically in order to kill herself. That may not be the case at all. The fact that it appears to be widely accepted that she checked in with another person tends to suggest that this was unlikely to be a a pre-planned scheme to end her own life. She is known to have spent a significant amount of time away from her room; perhaps she was seeing someone, maybe the guy who checked her in? Maybe he lived locally and was some sort of criminal? Perhaps it all came to an end, she lifted his illegal gun and killed herself because of it? She's gone unidentified for 25+ years so it's likely that she had few close family members and maybe that was the final straw? Loneliness can make people do desperate things. Maybe she was involved in some criminal activity? Perhaps she was a sex-worker trafficked there - that might be a reasonable explanation for her lack of clothes less likelihood of her running off if she has very few clothes.

I don't think that we can automatically assume that her residence at the hotel was part of some pre-conceived suicide plan.

 

[Marantz4250b]

Or it isn't the same weapon. I realize this doesn't fit with your way of thinking. You have a different approach, and I'm not discounting it. I'm not sure who, or what is behind the strangeness here, but I firmly believe there is something foul that went on.

The gun in her hand is the same as the gun in the crime lab pics. If your assertion is that the whole gun was photo-shopped into her hand then fair enough but there is no evidence of that, as far as I'm aware. Moreover, if it has been photo-shopped in then why the terrible effort at doing it? Also, the gun was only recently found and only came to light when the VG journalist asked the police to look for it. The crime scene pics are known to pre-date the finding of the gun which was initially thought to have been destroyed. So, unless the gun was photo-shopped in to it more than two decades ago and they kept that particular gun so they could "find" it years later .then it's the same gun.

I entirely agree that there are lots of strange issues here but none of them suggest tampering by the state. They are simply strange facts we do not have an explanation for yet.

 

[PatLaurel]

It isn't and it certainly isn't from me. I even said that I went out with a very classy girl a while back who dressed similarly so certainly wasn't passing judgement. One of my previous posts many pages back also made the point that I was not judging her lifestyle if she was a sex worker. I genuinely have no issue with it.

I didn't quote your post. My comment was not directed at you. But the way you try to invalidate everything i say makes me feel you have a vendetta against me? Is it personal? Have we crossed paths before?

MOO JMO

 

[Marantz4250b]

"Audun Kristiansen from the Oslo police force told Netflix that they had not found any traces of other people in the room. There was no sign of struggle either. (...)"

You open the door to someone you know, the person shots you dead at point blank range and, the absence of signs of struggle is enough to rule your death a suicide??? Suspicious. JMO

"Torleiv Ole Rognum, MD, PH.D., chief pathologist at the University of Oslo, questioned the forensic conclusions, (...) I don’t think I’ve ever seen a case with no blood stains on the hand.”

Show me a suicide by gunshot where the victim had no residue on the hands, nor blood and most importantly didn't suffer the recoil effect.

"Ola Kaldager, group leader of the Norwegian secret service E14 (...) noticed that intelligence agents could easily break in and make the door look like it was locked from the inside."

Even a fiver year old knows that. Hotel security staff know it and "less honest" hotel housekeepers know it too!

Plus, the lack of ID, the fake name, fake address, fake phone number etc.

You still think i can't find how the investigation was conducted suspicious, @Marantz4250b?

MOO JMO

Who Killed Jennifer Fairgate? - Reddit Theories on the Oslo Hotel

None of that means that there was anything suspicious about the investigation. It means that there are lots of very unusual facts related to the case but unusual facts are not in themselves evidence of cover-up or conspiracy. Yes, she was hiding her identity but that isn't evidence of murder on its own. It's evidence of someone who is hiding their identity and not much more. It isn't even evidence that she was hiding her identity due to her own choice given that she checked in with a male.

I 100% entirely agree that there is more to this than we know. I think the most likely, most rational answer is that she was someone on the fringes of society/the law (whether or not by choice) who somehow came by an illegal firearm which she used to kill herself. She wasn't a spy, she wasn't an international assassin or anything of that nature. Nor was the truth of her death covered up by the authorities. In reality she was probably just some lost woman who perhaps got herself into some situation she felt she couldn't get out of. When her identity is eventually uncovered, which I think it will be, then things will look far less remarkable than lots of folks think it will. I'd put money that she was in some way abused, controlled or coerced by other people, probably criminals of some nature or other. She definitely had contact with some criminal element recently before her death in order to have acquired the gun.

 

[Marantz4250b]

I didn't quote your post. My comment was not directed at you. But the way you try to invalidate everything i say makes me feel you have a vendetta against me? Is it personal? Have we crossed paths before?

MOO JMO

No, I have absolutely no idea who you are. To be honest I barely even look at the name of the poster I'm replying to. And, having checked back through the last few posts, your comments about passing judgement were direct replies to my comments.

 

[PatLaurel]

No, I have absolutely no idea who you are. To be honest I barely even look at the name of the poster I'm replying to. And, having checked back through the last few posts, your comments about passing judgement were direct replies to my comments.

BBM

No, they were not. Scroll back again...

ETA:

You are correct. It was a direct reply to your comment but the "message" was not directed at you.

ETAT

 

[GatorFL]

There is so much about this case that is weird.

If you simply wish to end your life, why would you go to so much trouble?

Why would you:

-Make hotel arrangements, then alter them?
-Make hotel arrangements at an upscale hotel?
-Under an alias, using false address, etc.

(Assuming she traveled, why even bother to do this? Why not kill yourself in Belgium, or Germany or wherever?)

-Why leave the hotel for 20-24 hours? Why not just get on with it?

-Why cut all the labels so carefully out of your clothes?

-You want to end your life? OK. Why do all of your undies go away? Your toothbrush? Your skirt, and any other clothing for the bottom half of your body?

-Why bother ordering room service? OK, you want a last meal, maybe. Your last meal is a few bites of sausage and potato salad....A DAY AFTER YOU ORDERED IT??? Gross. And weird....very weird.

So then, you decide to shoot yourself, with a messed up hinky gun, with enough bullets to shoot up the entire floor you're staying on, and somehow your hands are nice and neat, everything falls just so....

Nope, not weird at all. If I was depressed & suicidal , I would definitely have the energy to coordinate all of this....

There have been other suicides at upscale hotels where the deceased is unknown. It is really not an unusual place for someone to take their life.

 

[Marantz4250b]

BBM

No, they were not. Scroll back again...

Yes, they are; I said that I didn't think anyone was passing judgement on sex workers, you replied and said it was passing judgement on sex workers,

Norway - Norway - Oslo, WhtFemale, 20-30, Fake Name, shot in hotel room, Jun'95

 

[Marantz4250b]

There have been other suicides at upscale hotels where the deceased is unknown. It is really not an unusual place for someone to take their life.

Agreed, wasn't that the original reasoning behind putting Bibles in hotel rooms?

 

[GatorFL]

It always bothers me that the description mentions black hair, possibly died. How difficult would it have been to test a few strands of hair to find out if it was in fact dyed. Not that I think there was something suspicious about her having dyed hair but it would allow for a more accurate description of someone.

Most people associate blue eyes with a fairer complexion and lighter coloured hair. My dad had black hair, olive toned skin and cornflower blue eyes. My daughter has black hair, fair complexion with pale blue eyes like this woman. So it would have behooved them to do a little test.

I guess suicides are a dime a dozen and investigations may be based on impressions. But this 'suicide' had items of clothing missing along with a suitcase meaning she hadn't been alone. She gave a fictitious name, address and company on her check in card. Plus there's also that pesky fact of a briefcase filled with bullets and a gun with the serial numbers removed.

As for the discrepancies regarding the dimensions of the weapon. We know in many investigations evidence goes missing. Perhaps after taking apart the weapon that provided us with details of how it was a mix of different parts they actually misplaced the original gun.

IMO, talking about light and shadows on the photo doesn't alter the fact that the dimensions of the gun shown in two comparison photos illustrate they are off by several centimetres.

I don't think too much of the dyed hair. Lots of people with dark hair color it somehow, and sometimes it is to make it darker. Same w/lighter hair.

I agree there are plenty of people with naturally dark hair and light eyes, it's usually a striking look.

 

[GatorFL]

Agreed, wasn't that the original reasoning behind putting Bibles in hotel rooms?

IDK honestly.