NPR - Some Key Facts We've Learned About Police Shootings Over The Past Year

[katydid23]

And the pattern for that, is usually cops who jump in front of a fleeing suspect's cars and then shooting the driver (e.g.
CO - Jessica Hernandez), claiming their life was in danger. Totally ignoring the fact that it was their own actions that put their life in danger.

Jessica put her OWN LIFE in danger by making a long series of bad choices, including stealing cars while on probation, drinking and getting high while driving on a suspended license, and trying to flee while under arrest.

I did not see any examples of an officer 'jumping' in front of her car.

Interesting that Jessica had tweeted just days before her death that she thought HER OWN ACTIONS were going to cause her to die, possibly by the police.

 

[katydid23]

And a bullet in the back is the only solution for no registration etc? Not in my opinion.

Of course not. And that shooting was not justified. But the fleeing felons actions were not justified either. JMI

 

[katydid23]

No one, imo, wants to tie the hands of LE - old argument imo. No one, imo, wants or expects felons to run 'scot' free - whatever or whoever that is. Cops can't find people when they have taken their vehicle and know where they live and who their family/friends are? Should lead to where they work, where they bank among other key elements. All I can take away from these arguments is cops have become rather lazy - people will run - and apparently that is a small segment of stops LE make.

Don't get where cops should have a problem with fleeing to the point of shooting is the only resolution. Fleeing means having to shoot someone in the back. Heroic? Taxpayers have an opinion - and with that should come options, imo.

Sometimes arguments are 'old' because they are tried and true and are based on common sense.

And NO, cops cannot easily find someone because of a car or where they work. The repeat offenders do not have cars that are legally registered and many have no jobs nor bank accounts.

Calling the cops lazy because they do not want the suspect to get away seems disingenuous.

No one ever said that shooting is the only resolution. Show me a group of cases where the suspect has been shot in the back while fleeing?

We have this one unjustified case with Walter Scott. List the others so we can discuss them too, please.

 

[CuriousGuy]

Has anyone here ever said that LE should be able to do whatever they want--whenever they want? If so, I must have missed that.

No. It's a huge red herring used to try and shame those with differing opinions into silence.

 

[Greater Than]

I have to comment that while well written, this is an extremely biased article, against police officers, and justifying or rationalizing the behavior of those stopped by police he describes as insignificant, or not worth pursuing. I can't agree with that. Along with that, he has a lot of his facts wrong.

For an example of the author's bias, the author repeatedly refers to the Scott case as a "murder." At this point in time, the accused officer hasn't even been indicted, let alone convicted. It maybe the author's opinion it was a murder, but he never makes that distinction.

It's my opinion this is an op-Ed masquerading as investigative journalism. The bias of the author is very clear.

This is not a news article, it's a blog post. Code Switch is a blog on NPR's website.

No masquerade.

 

[Woodland]

Imo, a separate forum for LE related shootings is justified now with the number of cases on the go - and in the past. Seems difficult to gather much info with the cases all over the place.

 

[KEVINinTO]

Seems like a very biased article filled with misinformation. For example the author would have the reader believe that under the law police are not allowed to shoot a fleeing felon - and he quotes part of the Tennessee Vs Garner decision. He conveniently leaves out however the paragraphs where it is stated that police can shoot or use deadly force on a fleeing felon who poses a risk to the public. An example of this is the guy in Arizona who was taken out by a police cruiser the other day.

 

[Nana]

"

No one, imo, wants to tie the hands of LE - old argument imo. No one, imo, wants or expects felons to run 'scot' free - whatever or whoever that is. Cops can't find people when they have taken their vehicle and know where they live and who their family/friends are? Should lead to where they work, where they bank among other key elements. All I can take away from these arguments is cops have become rather lazy - people will run - and apparently that is a small segment of stops LE make.

Don't get where cops should have a problem with fleeing to the point of shooting is the only resolution. Fleeing means having to shoot someone in the back. Heroic? Taxpayers have an opinion - and with that should come options, imo.

How would the LE handle this in Canada?

 

[Woodland]

Not sure what 'this' is but LE here pretty much emulate LE in the US.

 

[shadowraiths]

The reason I started this thread is to open a respectful dialogue. I chose to excerpt from the two opinions above to provide a springboard, food for thought, so to speak. Since this thread is not case specific, it gives us an opportunity to discuss issues involving policing from a more generic (less charged?) pov.

While I, personally, do not think all LEO shootings are unjustified, neither do I think all LEO shootings are justified. I'm more of a case by case type person, and would venture to guess that the vast majority of those who participate on this site are likewise. Which, btw, is one of the many reasons I enjoy participating on this site. I learn so much!

That said, I am admittedly biased when it comes to shooting unarmed boys and men. Imho, there appears to be a serious problem that includes but is not limited to targeting people of color and/or the mentally ill, as well as a pervasive pattern of excessive force. The following are but a handful of US Department of Justice complaints/findings that inform my pov.

• Maricopa County, AZ
  
• LA County, CA
  
• East Haven, CT
  
• Miami, FL
  
• New Orleans, LA
  
• Ferguson, MO
  
• Newark, NJ
  
• Albuquerque, NM
  
• Alamance County, NC
  
• Cleveland, OH
  
• Portland, OR

 

[EllieBee]

I had this conversation with some of my friends recently;

About how I now feel my gut clench whenever I see a cop in my rear view. I am not committing any crimes (although the old brake light ploy scares me), but still I am in total panic and fear that if I DO get pulled over, the officer really doesn't need a reason and could totally do whatever he wants to me and if I complain or resist, BLAM! And God forbid it is at night. And what if the cop isn't a real cop, but a predator? But still I have to pull over or risk being killed for not complying.

And we live in America. Where this is not supposed to be okay.

I can tell you right now, the police where I live are so corrupt that I would NEVER pull over until I reached a VERY public place or even the actual police department. Especially if I were alone.

Our PD has had countless charges against officers for "sex" (legally, rape) with minors, and other types of abuse of power.

This is EXACTLY why I refuse to give cops deference and why I teach my daughter (who already knows this; crim justice major) to protect herself first and use her OWN judgement, not placing blind trust in her safety with LE.

If I had a LEO make an off-color remark, or a threatening gesture, you better KNOW I would run like hell. Especially in this climate of cops just shooting anyone they daggum well choose and claiming "fear for their lives". I call bullcheet.

For the record, I do not own a gun, so I am ALWAYS unarmed. A middle-aged woman with no criminal record. And still I freak out when I see a cop. I trust them NOT.

Sorry, it is my opinion and experience.

MY OPINION.

 

[katydid23]

That said, I am admittedly biased when it comes to shooting unarmed boys and men. Imho, there appears to be a serious problem that includes but is not limited to targeting people of color and/or the mentally ill, as well as a pervasive pattern of excessive force. The following are but a handful of US Department of Justice complaints/findings that inform my pov.
================================================================================

I totally disagree that people of color and the mentally ill are TARGETED by LE. The reason force is used is it is in RESPONSE to actions taken. For example, many mentally ill citizens are erratic and impulsive when confronted by officers. That in turn, makes officers defensive and reactive. And I can't blame them.

 

[katydid23]

I had this conversation with some of my friends recently;

About how I now feel my gut clench whenever I see a cop in my rear view. I am not committing any crimes (although the old brake light ploy scares me), but still I am in total panic and fear that if I DO get pulled over, the officer really doesn't need a reason and could totally do whatever he wants to me and if I complain or resist, BLAM! And God forbid it is at night. And what if the cop isn't a real cop, but a predator? But still I have to pull over or risk being killed for not complying.

And we live in America. Where this is not supposed to be okay.

I can tell you right now, the police where I live are so corrupt that I would NEVER pull over until I reached a VERY public place or even the actual police department. Especially if I were alone.

Our PD has had countless charges against officers for "sex" (legally, rape) with minors, and other types of abuse of power.

This is EXACTLY why I refuse to give cops deference and why I teach my daughter (who already knows this; crim justice major) to protect herself first and use her OWN judgement, not placing blind trust in her safety with LE.

If I had a LEO make an off-color remark, or a threatening gesture, you better KNOW I would run like hell. Especially in this climate of cops just shooting anyone they daggum well choose and claiming "fear for their lives". I call bullcheet.

For the record, I do not own a gun, so I am ALWAYS unarmed. A middle-aged woman with no criminal record. And still I freak out when I see a cop. I trust them NOT.

Sorry, it is my opinion and experience.

MY OPINION.

That makes me very sad. I get nervous when I see a cop in the rear view mirror too, and hate getting pulled over. But it never occurs to me that I might be harmed or killed by them.

I was in a living room full of officers last weekend at my son's house and felt very safe and comfortable being surrounded by LE. They were there for a family barbecue and there was nothing but positive, loving, fun conversations all around.

It makes me so sad that your daughter has to be afraid of being assaulted instead of assuming they would be protectors? Can you call the DOJ to come clean up the force there?

 

[EllieBee]

That said, I am admittedly biased when it comes to shooting unarmed boys and men. Imho, there appears to be a serious problem that includes but is not limited to targeting people of color and/or the mentally ill, as well as a pervasive pattern of excessive force. The following are but a handful of US Department of Justice complaints/findings that inform my pov.
================================================================================

I totally disagree that people of color and the mentally ill are TARGETED by LE. The reason force is used is it is in RESPONSE to actions taken. For example, many mentally ill citizens are erratic and impulsive when confronted by officers. That in turn, makes officers defensive and reactive. And I can't blame them.

I disagree.

Are you saying that the underage girls assaulted by officers in my parish is in RESPONSE to them being, what, too dang sexy? Sometimes cops do really illegal and unethical things and blaming the victim by saying that police are only acting in RESPONSE is, IMO, so very wrong and scary.

I understand that I live in a very corrupt area, and that not all places are as scary as where I live. But can we please allow that it is FACT that not everywhere in the US is Mayberry and that innocent people are assaulted and even killed by LE every day?

 

[EllieBee]

That makes me very sad. I get nervous when I see a cop in the rear view mirror too, and hate getting pulled over. But it never occurs to me that I might be harmed or killed by them.

I was in a living room full of officers last weekend at my son's house and felt very safe and comfortable being surrounded by LE. They were there for a family barbecue and there was nothing but positive, loving, fun conversations all around.

It makes me so sad that your daughter has to be afraid of being assaulted instead of assuming they would be protectors? Can you call the DOJ to come clean up the force there?

It makes me sad, too. But it is Louisiana. Do a quick Google on LA LE.

We only have another two years and then we can move. Thank God.

 

[Tawny]

One thing that I have noticed, that seems to be a pattern---the victims of the shootings were usually fleeing felons that were being aggressive and threatening before their demise.

Was this guy being aggressive by following the order to retrieve his license? All caught on video and then the officer LIED about what happened. The man was awareed $300k by the state. Should have been more.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/25/justice/south-carolina-trooper-shooting/

Failure to signal or a burned out light is not a felony, but attacking or "tussling" with a police officer is a felony. Resisting arrest is a felony. It doesn't matter what the reason was that they were pulled over or encountered a police officer. If someone attacks a LEO, that's a serious felony action that could result in their death. Even most young children can understand that.

No it isn't.

 

[shadowraiths]

Here is an excerpt (numbered for clarity) from the USDOJ findings wrt excessive force for the Cleveland Police Department.

1. The unnecessary and excessive use of deadly force, including shootings and head strikes with impact weapons;
2. The unnecessary, excessive or retaliatory use of less lethal force including tasers, chemical spray and fists;
3. Excessive force against persons who are mentally ill or in crisis, including in cases where the officers were called exclusively for a welfare check; and
4. The employment of poor and dangerous tactics that place officers in situations where avoidable force becomes inevitable and places officers and civilians at unnecessary risk.

Note, especially, item 4.

 

[katydid23]

I disagree.

Are you saying that the underage girls assaulted by officers in my parish is in RESPONSE to them being, what, too dang sexy? Sometimes cops do really illegal and unethical things and blaming the victim by saying that police are only acting in RESPONSE is, IMO, so very wrong and scary.

I understand that I live in a very corrupt area, and that not all places are as scary as where I live. But can we please allow that it is FACT that not everywhere in the US is Mayberry and that innocent people are assaulted and even killed by LE every day?

I never said anything about underage girls being to blame. I was replying specifically to someones comment about the mentally ill being targeted.

I do not believe that there are unjustified shootings by LE every day. JMO

I will be shocked if that is true.

I don't know much about New Orleans so I am researching it a bit now. Sorry it is so violent. That is very sad.

 

[EllieBee]

That makes me very sad. I get nervous when I see a cop in the rear view mirror too, and hate getting pulled over. But it never occurs to me that I might be harmed or killed by them.

I was in a living room full of officers last weekend at my son's house and felt very safe and comfortable being surrounded by LE. They were there for a family barbecue and there was nothing but positive, loving, fun conversations all around.

It makes me so sad that your daughter has to be afraid of being assaulted instead of assuming they would be protectors? Can you call the DOJ to come clean up the force there?

I also wanted to say, I never felt that way in other places I have lived.

Partly because there wasn't the racial crap, and the people taking 5 to the back while running away stuff going on. But also partly because it felt like (and maybe I was wearing rose colored glasses) the police were really there to protect us, rather than now, where it feels like they are looking for excuses to harm us, falsely charge us, or kill us.

And they do seem to get away with it. And have lots of support for doing so.

Yes, the DOJ is a great avenue. Except there are so many folks who think like you do, that LE is in the right. No one will ever hear my voice.

So I choose to just not trust. Safer that way.

I really do thank you for your insight and your posts, though. You are a thoughtful and smart lady!

 

[Tawny]

Here is an excerpt (numbered for clarity) from the USDOJ findings wrt excessive force for the Cleveland Police Department.

1. The unnecessary and excessive use of deadly force, including shootings and head strikes with impact weapons;
2. The unnecessary, excessive or retaliatory use of less lethal force including tasers, chemical spray and fists;
3. Excessive force against persons who are mentally ill or in crisis, including in cases where the officers were called exclusively for a welfare check; and
4. The employment of poor and dangerous tactics that place officers in situations where avoidable force becomes inevitable and places officers and civilians at unnecessary risk.

Note, especially, item 4.

RETALIATORY is, IMO, a very key word there. LE can't just shoot someone because they're p*ssed that the person resisted them or disobeyed or ran away. They're the law, they're supposed to be better than the criminals they think they're protecting the rest of us from.