NPR - Some Key Facts We've Learned About Police Shootings Over The Past Year

[katydid23]

http://www.shreveporttimes.com/stor...olice-officer-arrested-james-greene/23370511/


http://www.ksla.com/story/15441540/meigs-officer-arrested-for-statutory-rape



http://www.wtoc.com/story/25039911/shreveport-police-officer-fired-after-arrest-for-obstruction

Thank you for the links. The first one is very frightening. A woman goes to the station to lodge a complaint and is raped there?

 

[EllieBee]

You said you didn't have much faith in them either, right? LOL

I suggested it because there are not a lot of other options. I assume that if cops are raping girls then SOMETHING has to be done.

But when I was talking about the DOJ reports, I was not trusting them because Holder, the head of the DOJ is very political and very partisan, imo. And he has a political agenda, in my opinion.

I posted just the first three that come up on Google. Our local newspaper has a headline almost daily about some form of police corruption.
That said, you decried the DOJ, but then advised me to report these already publicly reported cases to the DOJ. Which confused me.

But yes, I do think they are ALL corrupt and I am not willing to get one of those police "i was threatened" bullets in my back as I run away in fear of my life. I am crazy like that.

 

[KaaBoom]

NO, I never said they were targeting them. In most cases. LE is CALLED to come deal with the mentally ill. Even their own families and friends call for help. That is not targeting them , that is reacting to the situation.

Tell me when/how they were targeted?

You said, "mentally ill citizens are erratic and impulsive when confronted by officers. That in turn, makes officers defensive and reactive."

That is wrong. For one thing it's a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Mentally ill people are afforded the same protection under the law. The police can not shoot them simply because mentally ill people make them "defensive and react". Thats just discrimination, same as shooting unarmed black people.

 

[EllieBee]

Thank you for the links. The first one is very frightening. A woman goes to the station to lodge a complaint and is raped there?

I know! It makes for a very scary existence....looking over your shoulder!

 

[shadowraiths]

And it pains me to hear how that is just cast aside and it is assumed that they go out everyday looking for people of color or the mentally ill so they can target them for abuse.

It's not that simple. Some cities implement what they term the "The Broken Window Theory." Within this context along with the push for aggressive policing (such as was noted in North Charleston), the chance for elevated volatility in largely black communities is inherent. That is, it is not necessarily about "bad policing" rather, arguably, "bad policy."

 

[katydid23]

You said, "mentally ill citizens are erratic and impulsive when confronted by officers. That in turn, makes officers defensive and reactive."

That is wrong. For one thing it's a violation of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Mentally ill people are afforded the same protection under the law. The police can not shoot them simply because mentally ill people make them "defensive and react". Thats just discrimination, same as shooting unarmed black people.

No one is saying they should be shot for being mentally ill. Show me where I said any such thing.

Being defensive and reacting is exactly what a person needs to do if they are under attack. That is what I am referring to, cops being threatened and defending themselves. I thought that is what we were discussing here.

 

[SStarr33]

Recent NO incident:

http://www.nola.com/crime/index.ssf/2015/04/st_charles_deputy_shot_name.html

Hazeltine was shot in an "apparent ambush" Thursday (April 16) around 8:30 a.m. while directing traffic in a Paradis school zone, the Sheriff's Office said. He was rushed to the hospital in New Orleans and taken into surgery.

 

[SStarr33]

I know! It makes for a very scary existence....looking over your shoulder!

I wonder if that's how police feel?

 

[katydid23]

It's not that simple. Some cities implement what they term the "The Broken Window Theory." Within this context along with the push for aggressive policing (such as was noted in North Charleston), the chance for elevated volatility in largely black communities is inherent. That is, it is not necessarily about "bad policing" rather, arguably, "bad policy."

I don't know that it is necessarily bad policy and here is why. I grew up in Berkeley Calif. That is where that 'broken windows' strategy began, IIRC. People who lived in low income sections of Berkeley wondered why they had to put up with broken street lamps and broken windows and North Berkeley had a beautiful environment. Why not clean up everywhere, not just the wealthier neighborhoods? It made sense and the local PD tried hard to follow through with that strategy and idealism.

So years later we hear that it is somehow unfair to low income citizens, to correct small defects and charge for small crimes. Are we now saying it is OKAY to break 'little' laws if you are in the hood? It will now be fine to drive with no license or registration as long as you live in certain neighborhoods? Don't bother with the regulations if it is too much of a hassle?

 

[BayouBelle_LA]

The anti-police movement

Yesterday, a group called The Stop Mass Incarceration Network suggested that all Americans protest quote, "the injustice of mass incarceration and police brutality". In New York City, maybe 400 protesters turned out to block traffic and yell stuff. 42 were arrested, two police officers hurt. In Los Angeles, about 100 protesters turned out. There were 14 arrests in the City of Angels. In Oakland, far left city, only about 100 people showed up. No arrests were made there.

So you can see the anti-police call was not exactly heeded. The reason is the vast majority of Americans understand that most of the nations 1.2 million law enforcement agents are good people who risk their lives to protect the innocent. But with high tech now capturing dubious incidents, it's easy for cop haters to demonize the entire law enforcement community.

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2015/04/16/bill-oreilly-anti-police-movement-in-america/

 

[shadowraiths]

No one is saying they should be shot for being mentally ill. Show me where I said any such thing.

Being defensive and reacting is exactly what a person needs to do if they are under attack. That is what I am referring to, cops being threatened and defending themselves. I thought that is what we were discussing here.

Imo, we're talking about the use of excessive force. The police dog piling on Kelly Thomas and beating him into a coma, for example. These other two cases are less clear.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/us/dallas-police-fatal-shooting-mentally-ill-man-video/

http://news.yahoo.com/family-mentally-ill-florida-man-releases-videos-police-234014623.html

This, from the last link, however:

Before the shooting, an officer can be heard shouting: “Get on the ****ing ground or you’re dead.” Five shots followed.​

is problematic. Schizophrenia is not correlated to violence. Iow, have we taught our young men and women how to de-escalate situations such as those in the above two links? I don't think so. And this, imho, is a problem.

 

[EllieBee]

I wonder if that's how police feel?

I can't imagine why? In the article I referenced, the police were charged with raping a woman who came in to report she was raped. Do you think police officers are being raped and then raped by other police because they reported the initial rape?

<modsnip>

 

[Curious Guy]

I disagree. I would say a very small percentage are justified.

Certainly not any that I've heard of in the last few years. Especially by anyone who wasn't even a 'real' cop... JMHO is all.

Surely you jest. Almost all are unjustified? Sadly the media and those that gain from social unrest have created this perception.

 

[EllieBee]

More re: corruption in my parish:

http://www.ktbs.com/story/22332541/two-caddo-judges-charges-with-corruption

http://www.ktbs.com/story/28026096/caddo-commissioner-may-face-corruption-charges


http://www.ksla.com/story/7892373/shreveport-police-chief-comments-on-claim-of-police-brutality

 

[katydid23]

Imo, we're talking about the use of excessive force. The police dog piling on Kelly Thomas and beating him into a coma, for example. These other two cases are less clear.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/us/dallas-police-fatal-shooting-mentally-ill-man-video/

http://news.yahoo.com/family-mentally-ill-florida-man-releases-videos-police-234014623.html

This, from the last link, however:

Before the shooting, an officer can be heard shouting: &#8220;Get on the ****ing ground or you&#8217;re dead.&#8221; Five shots followed.​

is problematic. Schizophrenia is not correlated to violence. Iow, have we taught our young men and women how to de-escalate situations such as those in the above two links? I don't think so. And this, imho, is a problem.

These are the kinds of things that are on the minds of the officers, most likely:

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/suicide-by-police-an-alarming-new-trend

n March of this year, a man wielding two meat cleavers entered a day care center in Madison, Wisconsin and slashed one of the teachers in the head, arms, and shoulders. When two veteran police officers arrived, they saw no other choice but to shoot and kill the perpetrator, Gregory E. Velasquez. The actions themselves, although deeply disturbing, are unfortunately not entirely shocking in this day and age; however, the coroner's ruling the death "suicide by police" may be for some.

Suicide by police is an alarming new trend that has police departments across the country worried, and for good reason. It seems to be occurring with more frequency&#8212;the three examples discussed below happened within the last several months.




http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/troubled-florida-man-commits-suicide-article-1.1933351


Troubled Florida man commits 'suicide by cop' after confronting officers with gun
Thomas Carberry, 50, was fatally shot by two Wilton Manors police officers after he had threatened to kill himself and the people around him, authorities said.

http://www.twincities.com/crime/ci_27246205/st-paul-swat-team-responds-house-near-oakland

St. Paul officer injured in 'suicide by cop' standoff doing well

 

[katydid23]

I can't imagine why? In the article I referenced, the police were charged with raping a woman who came in to report she was raped. Do you think police officers are being raped and then raped by other police because they reported the initial rape?

<modsnip>

She said that because she had just posted an article from NOLA about a cop that was shot in an ambush while directing traffic in front of a school. Both sides have reasons to be afraid it seems.

 

[K_Z]

This is in reply to whether resisting arrest is a felony (the context of the conversation had to do with attacking, or struggling with, a LEO). In most states, resisting arrest can be EITHER a misdemeanor, or a felony, depending on the actions of the suspect.

What is Resisting Arrest?

Resisting arrest occurs when a person interferes with a law enforcement officer’s attempt to perform a lawful arrest. Some states call the crime “obstruction.” The crime can be a felony or a misdemeanor, depending on the severity of the actions of the person being arrested.

Misdemeanor resisting arrest (or misdemeanor obstruction) can include actions such as running and hiding from a law enforcement officer. Felony resisting arrest usually requires that a person either act violently toward the arresting officer or threaten to act violently.

Felony Resisting Arrest: What Does the Prosecutor Have to Prove?

In order to secure a conviction for resisting arrest, the prosecutor must produce evidence on the following issues, called the “elements” of the offense, and the judge or jury must decide that the prosecutor has proved each one of them beyond a reasonable doubt. While the elements of the crime may vary from state to state, usually all of the following must be true:

•The defendant intentionally resisted or obstructed a law enforcement officer. This means the defendant intentionally acted in a way to hinder the arrest. However, the person need not have intended the result or harm that his actions caused.

•The defendant acted violently toward the law enforcement officer or threatened to act violently. For example, striking or pushing the officer would satisfy this requirement. Similarly, a defendant’s threat to strike an officer with an object in the defendant’s hand would also satisfy this requirement.

•The law enforcement officer was lawfully discharging his official duties. This means the law enforcement officer was properly engaged in the performance of official duties, such as investigating a crime or making a traffic stop. A law enforcement officer can be acting lawfully even when arresting the wrong person and even if the charges are dropped or the defendant secures an acquittal at trial.

http://www.criminaldefenselawyer.com/crime-penalties/federal/Resisting-Arrest.htm

BBM. Basically, "tussling" or physically struggling with, or attacking a LEO, with or without an attempt to take the LEOs weapon is a felony, as is resisting arrest as a result of the physical struggle. Reaching for, or trying to take a LEOs weapon could be another separate felony apart from the physical struggle with a LEO, if the prosecutor chose to charge it that way.

 

[katydid23]

Imo, we're talking about the use of excessive force. The police dog piling on Kelly Thomas and beating him into a coma, for example. These other two cases are less clear.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/us/dallas-police-fatal-shooting-mentally-ill-man-video/

http://news.yahoo.com/family-mentally-ill-florida-man-releases-videos-police-234014623.html

This, from the last link, however:

Before the shooting, an officer can be heard shouting: &#8220;Get on the ****ing ground or you&#8217;re dead.&#8221; Five shots followed.​

is problematic. Schizophrenia is not correlated to violence. Iow, have we taught our young men and women how to de-escalate situations such as those in the above two links? I don't think so. And this, imho, is a problem.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/18/us/dallas-police-fatal-shooting-mentally-ill-man-video/


This ^^^ case is a perfect example of what I am complaining about. The family of this mentally ill man called LE over a hundred times for help with their troubled son. He was a large, muscular man with a bad temper. Which is exactly why his mother and brother were afraid of him.

They called 911 over a hundred times for help trying to get him to comply with their wishes. And then, when on the 100th plus time, the cops felt threatened as he lunged at them and they shot, this family says the cops 'did not know how to deal with the mentally ill' and so they are going to sue.

Obviously, if the cops had wanted to harm him it would not have taken them over a hundred visits to the home for them to do so.

And I think the family has a lot of nerve calling the cops out as 'inept' with the mentally ill, when the family relied upon them so many times due to their own ineptness. If they are so good at dealing with the mentally unbalanced why the need for 100+ calls to 911?

 

[katydid23]

http://news.yahoo.com/family-mentall...234014623.html

This, from the last link, however:

Before the shooting, an officer can be heard shouting: &#8220;Get on the ****ing ground or you&#8217;re dead.&#8221; Five shots followed.

is problematic. Schizophrenia is not correlated to violence. Iow, have we taught our young men and women how to de-escalate situations such as those in the above two links? I don't think so. And this, imho, is a problem.
========================================================================================

You say that schizophrenia is not correlated to violence and yet in this case you linked, the suspect was chasing the cops around with a broomstick.

His family called 911 because they were afraid of him and could not control him. Is the cop supposed to allow an angry mentally ill man to hit him with a stick?

My brother has paranoid schizophrenia and has many violent episodes over the years. I cannot control him when he loses it. He is not connected to reality at that point in time. His inner voices control his thoughts and actions and I am no longer 'his sister' when he is in full blown episode. I am whomever he sees before him at the time.

I would like to see any of the people here complaining, anyone of them, try to make an angry mentally ill suspect comply with orders. I think they would find it is harder than they think and much scarier.

 

[shadowraiths]

The anti-police movement

[...]

But with high tech now capturing dubious incidents, it's easy for cop haters to demonize the entire law enforcement community.

http://www.foxnews.com/transcript/2015/04/16/bill-oreilly-anti-police-movement-in-america/

Yup, and herein lies another problem. The sweeping generalizations (i.e., one officer's bad behavior equals all officers are bad, which, imho, is not even remotely true.)

I've spoken with people who think all officers are bad, and are surprised to encounter the good guys. My response has been one of admitted bafflement bc affaics, the majority of our LEOs are not only doing their job but doing it well.