NV - 59 Dead, over 500 injured in Mandalay Bay shooting in Las Vegas, 1 Oct 2017 #8

[Gooddeeds]

It could be. Depends on what the report says. Depends on what the "theory" is. You can't just say proof of a CT without detailing what the CT is. That implies all CT's are the same. You are implying anything labelled a CT must be phony simply because someone somewhere labelled it a CT.

https://www.reviewjournal.com/crime...apon-in-las-vegas-gunmans-mandalay-bay-suite/

Why does it take one month for this info to be revealed?

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-I believe it is subtle self serving orchestration. They have messed up...and badly with timeline, basics, etc from the beginning. If it was a matter of waiting to release info then they most definitely should not have enthusiastically appeared on 60 Minutes. I watched it again recently, it is mockery in my opinion. Cariis thanks for finding the makeshift SWAT report, among other that seemed buried under layers. That is a perfect example of false representation. There are many.

-SP is dead. Brain analysis, and whatever can be gleaned from the appropriate professional medical sources will be released at some point. There are more like SP around, though we don’t have the direct ability to fix that quickly.

-What should be analyzed for immediate attention is preventive security measures. In this case we are not getting what is expected from those in charge/involved and appointed to implement the best path going forward. Therefore that has become a main issue (for myself). I’m not buying into their botched stories.

-We are not only not getting the info, we are being deceived... and ridiculed for inquiring.

-To me the worst part of this with the exception of the Victims is the deceit within the crew. It is not conducive for a valid honest investigation. It is not acceptable. It is scary.

TBC

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

Cariis, I agree with some of what you are saying re the swat team that was not a swat team at the same time. Thats worth looking at?
where were the real swat team, is there supposed to be a swat team or two there?
What happened?
Were the Terror squad people called in and at what stage?

they're worthy questions.
Try wrapping your head around the 64 aint ancient thingy..?
Everything else is a theory, great theories and interesting theories but eventually we're gonna have to stop falling down those rabbit holes and deal with what we actually have got.
Until credible facts emerge anything else is a mere side circus.
I discipline my reading material on this...because I need to integrate it as a human being first. A massive human tragedy happening in a free country that I personally care a lot about.
And after that, if it aint peer reviewed and cited by at least a dozen reputable academics.. I aint goin' there.
Its also a huge distraction from the nitty gritty of sleuthing...
We're missing something big about Paddock.. just dont know what it is yet..

Missing something big about Paddock?
I am almost certain about that!
MOO

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[kittythehare]

1 degree doesn't leave much wiggle room does it? I am a lay person when it comes to guns and shooting, but it sure sounds to me like one would have to be a trained marksman to pull off such an attack. Where would he practice shooting at such an angle. Where would he find the time between his extensive travel and 14 hrs/day 365 days/ yr playing video poker?

And did he know in advance whick entry point the police would use? If he did, had he researched it and is there a trace of that track anywhere to be found?
He realigned in order to shoot at LE as they entered..this dude really did know an awful lot about guns, yet the fruitless shots at the tanks and the even more fruitless car 'laden with explosives)
So this is a paradox..if this was to be his celebration of his life.. this final act.. theres either loads of pieces of this jigsaw missing or that is in fact all that is known by the authorities.

 

[kittythehare]

I think first you have to distinguish between the so called "conspiracy theorists" who look at each event individually with logic and critical analysis, and those who i will refer to as "conspiracy nuts", including the auto-hoaxers, who automatically assume all major events are faked or wild conspiracies.

Once that distinction is made you can then go about discussing their motives.

The term "conspiracy theory/theorist" is very misleading IMO. And intentionally so.

You do, to an extent.
But the chances are that if it is being published by or presented by certain scum media sources- its really not worth the journey. There is no point in attempting to have a reasonable conversation with either that nonsense or those who push it forward.

That story broke as a possible terror attack, that means that every reputable journalist from every reputable media source was ON IT immediately, stat, no delay.. and they do dig and they do search and they do frequently locate.. the truth of the matter.

They have no reason to either misrepresent the truth, seek permission to print their findings, or be beholden to anyone at all.

They have their problems, and they are not perfect but they do invest in good research so there is a good chance they know what they are talking about it and they know they will be litigated if they get it wrong or otherwise fail to comply with ethics in journalism standards.

 

[Tricia]

Hi Everyone,

Just a reminder...we only allow photo's from approved sources such as mainstream media, police, or other approved sources.

If you have any questions you can private message me anytime.

Thanks,
Tricia

 

[MistyWaters]

It could be. Depends on what the report says. Depends on what the "theory" is. You can't just say proof of a CT without detailing what the CT is. That implies all CT's are the same. You are implying anything labelled a CT must be phony simply because someone somewhere labelled it a CT.

All I'm saying is any conclusion cannot be reached by the general public without full and accurate information - which just happens to be the role of investigators, not us. Consider what's already occurred regarding online harassment of some of the victims including spiteful and even hateful insinuations toward JCs involvement. That's one good reason why it's possible people who possess valuable information into the life of SP do not go public. Would any of us want to be publicly associated with the perpetrator of the largest mass murder in modern US history? Not me! We do not know what investigators know.

The other problem I think is that people who jump to foregone conclusions without knowing al the facts are unlikely to later change their opinion. There's always going to be unanswered questions especially when the key player is no longer alive. At this point to already declare ANY conspiracy as some people are certain of, it'd be like claiming to have completed a 500 jigsaw puzzle with only a small handful of pieces.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

1 degree doesn't leave much wiggle room does it? I am a lay person when it comes to guns and shooting, but it sure sounds to me like one would have to be a trained marksman to pull off such an attack. Where would he practice shooting at such an angle. Where would he find the time between his extensive travel and 14 hrs/day 365 days/ yr playing video poker?

As in personal sharp-shooter training? I'm not understanding why it'd require formal training, as opposed to practise.

Nowhere did I notice anyone say SP gambled 14hrs/365 up until Oct 1st. If you have a link pls share.

As it's never been mentioned that anyone trained SP how to win at video poker machines, it would seem highly possible he applied that same level of obsessive intensity into perfecting his accuracy in shooting.

For all we know, he spent as much time at shooting ranges in the past year as he spent at casinos the year before that.

 

[kiddynamitephilly]

-I believe it is subtle self serving orchestration. They have messed up...and badly with timeline, basics, etc from the beginning.

TBC

100% thank you for this statement. Huge difference between CT nuts (which I am not, and find completely repulsive) and people who feel there's been some clear "self-serving orchestration". It is discouraging to see how anyone who questions the Sheriff or LE in general get lumped in with the CT crowd.

I do not think for a minute there were multiple shooters, but I don't hold it against people for looking into it.

I don't think anything was staged, I don't think JC drove the hard drive to a Mexican drug kinpin a few weeks ago.

I do not think for a minute that bipolar or anything mental played a role in this. My opinion, but hey I did not passively mock people when they posted lengthy dissertations about mental illness. Why would I question or belittle another posters thoughts on this case, who am I?

I do not think for a minute JC had anything to do with this. Look back at thread 1, I defended him as a victim and HERO for his actions. I still believe that. But does that mean we shouldn't ask questions. Does he know more? Did he know Paddock? Is he being pressured by people to stay quiet? Is it odd that he hit Mexico with all this going on?

Do I think gun running could be a major theme? Absolutely. Do I think laundering could be a major theme? Absolutely. Do I have questions about the brother in FL? YES. Do I have questions about the no-fly girlfriend? YES. Do I think it's completely bananas that LE was on 60 mins so soon? YES. Isn't it wierd that Wynn seemed to know more about the investigation than Lombardo? Is it odd that LVMPD has been under FBI scrutiny for a long time, well yes it is odd.

These are not CT-level questions!! In fact it makes far more sense that the quietness may be due to the fact that LE and very wealthy corps do not want it to come to light how incredibly easy it has been for a gun-running money launderer to abuse their casino system for 20 plus years , and build a mini-empire on dirty money running right thru their machine. Then we're looking at ok, who else is abusing LV casinos like this.

They don't want the world to see this - hey you know that seedy, criminal image you conjure up sometimes when you think of vegas, well not only is it true, SP is the poster boy for how easy it is to be a deranged maniac, and abuse our incredibly lax regulations to launder money , run guns and then blast the crap out of a concert. We're printing money, we aint paying attention. it's all true! That is not a conspiracy, that is - ok this terrible tragedy has shed light on a very ugly truth about our city, and if people realize how easy we made this for this guy it could ruin our tourism economy in a heartbeat, how the hell do we deal with this?

I guess all I am saying is, if your line of thinking on this case doesn't jive with someone who may be asking some questions, just pass over the posts and move on. It just seems there are so many posters who hang out solely to debunk or passively mock the people asking questions.

If you want to keep your personal thoughts on the event geared towards sleuthing SP and why he did this, I am totally fine with that. My thoughts are geared towards what allowed him to do this so easily, what is it that LE and the Vegas mega-powers are trying to keep from coming up to the light?

 

[m00c0w]

Lol at the idea a source is needed to determine if he was gun-loving.

But yes, people said he had a gun room and we know how many guns he owned. Is it possible a gun hater would purchase and use so many guns?

Also, several early reports contained opinions from those who knew him that he liked country music.

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Some sources would be great here, too. Context is key.

 

[CoolJ]

As in personal sharp-shooter training? I'm not understanding why it'd require formal training, as opposed to practise.

Nowhere did I notice anyone say SP gambled 14hrs/365 up until Oct 1st. If you have a link pls share.

As it's never been mentioned that anyone trained SP how to win at video poker machines, it would seem highly possible he applied that same level of obsessive intensity into perfecting his accuracy in shooting.

For all we know, he spent as much time at shooting ranges in the past year as he spent at casinos the year before that.

Do you know of any comparable automatic weapon shooting ranges from that sort of an angle outside of military bases?

 

[kiddynamitephilly]

gun room
http://nypost.com/2017/10/06/vegas-shooter-showed-off-his-gun-room-to-houseguest/

He liked country music, relatives said
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/10/02/las-vegas-gunman-liked-to-gamble-listened-to-country-music-lived-quiet-retired-life-before-massacre/?utm_term=.47ef0ee32a31

Amassing arsenal
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2017/10/04/las-vegas-shooter-bought-33-guns-last-12-months/730634001/

 

[CoolJ]

All I'm saying is any conclusion cannot be reached by the general public without full and accurate information - which just happens to be the role of investigators, not us. Consider what's already occurred regarding online harassment of some of the victims including spiteful and even hateful insinuations toward JCs involvement. That's one good reason why it's possible people who possess valuable information into the life of SP do not go public. Would any of us want to be publicly associated with the perpetrator of the largest mass murder in modern US history? Not me! We do not know what investigators know.

The other problem I think is that people who jump to foregone conclusions without knowing al the facts are unlikely to later change their opinion. There's always going to be unanswered questions especially when the key player is no longer alive. At this point to already declare ANY conspiracy as some people are certain of, it'd be like claiming to have completed a 500 jigsaw puzzle with only a small handful of pieces.

JMO

I agree, there should be nobody outside of LE making any kind of hardfast declarations at this point. But there should also be no questions not allowed to be asked. People should not be ridiculed for asking questions.

On that note, I would like to know how LE were able to make the "declaration" that there were NOT multiple shooters in Las Vegas that night. Understand, I am not demanding an answer from LE. I am merely asking how they could come to that conclusion at such an early stage. Especially when reports were flooding in in opposition to that statement.

 

[ohreally]

As in personal sharp-shooter training? I'm not understanding why it'd require formal training, as opposed to practise.

Nowhere did I notice anyone say SP gambled 14hrs/365 up until Oct 1st. If you have a link pls share.

As it's never been mentioned that anyone trained SP how to win at video poker machines, it would seem highly possible he applied that same level of obsessive intensity into perfecting his accuracy in shooting.

For all we know, he spent as much time at shooting ranges in the past year as he spent at casinos the year before that.

I think people are taking the 14 hour a day 365 days a year from his deposition that he gave in his lawsuit in 2013. What he said was in 2006 at the height of his play, he spent 14 hours a day 365 days a year. People are taking part of his statement and leaving out the rest of it.
2006 was 11 years ago. Even in 2013 he was not saying that he spent the same amount of time gambling.

 

[MistyWaters]

Do you know of any comparable automatic weapon shooting ranges from that sort of an angle outside of military bases?

Google shooting ranges in Nevada. Tactical shooting is a recreation sport. Neither semi-automatics nor bump stocks are illegal. Even for about $3000 one can experience shooting a machine gun from a helicopter. I'm not passing judgement one way or another, just to say there's obviously lots of opportunity for shooting practise in Nevada.

 

[MistyWaters]

I think people are taking the 14 hour a day 365 days a year from his deposition that he gave in his lawsuit in 2013. What he said was in 2006 at the height of his play, he spent 14 hours a day 365 days a year. People are taking part of his statement and leaving out the rest of it.
2006 was 11 years ago. Even in 2013 he was not saying that he spent the same amount of time gambling.

Yes I agree the impression may be that nothing changed.

However his brother Eric iirc also said he hadn't visited his brother in the last year. MD's public comments didn't add any great insight in his present activities either. A couple of those gun store owners where he made more recent purchases mentioned he was knowledgable about the weapons that he was buying. That he began accumulating the vast majority of his weapons during the past year suggests his gambling tenacity changed during that time as well.

 

[CoolJ]

Google shooting ranges in Nevada. Tactical shooting is a recreation sport. Neither semi-automatics nor bump stocks are illegal. Even for about $3000 one can experience shooting a machine gun from a helicopter. I'm not passing judgement one way or another, just to say there's obviously lots of opportunity for shooting practise in Nevada.

Yea I have been searching. Still am. Haven't been able to find any that would simulate that distance and angle/drop. Let me know if you find one!

 

[MistyWaters]

I agree, there should be nobody outside of LE making any kind of hardfast declarations at this point. But there should also be no questions not allowed to be asked. People should not be ridiculed for asking questions.

On that note, I would like to know how LE were able to make the "declaration" that there were NOT multiple shooters in Las Vegas that night. Understand, I am not demanding an answer from LE. I am merely asking how they could come to that conclusion at such an early stage. Especially when reports were flooding in in opposition to that statement.

What time did LE made the declaration that only one shooter was involved?

The reason I ask is, by many witness accounts, they spent a good portion of that night hiding out in terror.

 

[MistyWaters]

Yea I have been searching. Still am. Haven't been able to find any that would simulate that distance and angle/drop. Let me know if you find one!

While you're looking, check out trigonometry - a branch of mathematics that studies relationships involving lengths and angles of triangles.

 

[Pamela_Brewer]

While you're looking, check out trigonometry - a branch of mathematics that studies relationships involving lengths and angles of triangles.

Ahh... He was a "math" guy.
MOO

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[CoolJ]

While you're looking, check out trigonometry - a branch of mathematics that studies relationships involving lengths and angles of triangles.

I was hoping you were going to help me find one.

And what's this about trig.? What am I searching for about it?