NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 6

[laytonian]

Do we know if any of Steven's financial records are missing?

Vegas isn't known for its stellar care of people with mental illness and any state funded programs would be severely lacking just now. Indigent people requiring medical care would wind up at University Medical Center. I'm not sure how the HIPAA regulations would impact a missing persons search such as what we have here.

His credit cards are missing; the family has access to his bank accounts. He wouldn't have filed income taxes for 2009 (since he disappeared before the end of the year), so he wouldn't have those. Since he lived with his parents before he moved to St George, he may have left his other records at the home.

The hospitals were checked early on, and there was no report of him being a patient. The police would be able to get a "yes/no" answer to "Is he or has he been a patient here?"

Plus, even if he had been admitted, emergency would only have to do life-saving treatment. If you are deemed a danger to yourself or others, you can be held for 72 hours, and then someone has to get a court order. None of that, obviously, has been done.

 

[Fairy1]

His credit cards are missing; the family has access to his bank accounts. He wouldn't have filed income taxes for 2009 (since he disappeared before the end of the year), so he wouldn't have those. Since he lived with his parents before he moved to St George, he may have left his other records at the home.

The hospitals were checked early on, and there was no report of him being a patient. The police would be able to get a "yes/no" answer to "Is he or has he been a patient here?"

Plus, even if he had been admitted, emergency would only have to do life-saving treatment. If you are deemed a danger to yourself or others, you can be held for 72 hours, and then someone has to get a court order. None of that, obviously, has been done.

Do you mean a court order to have someone committed?

 

[laytonian]

Do you mean a court order to have someone committed?

Yup. You can't be held (involuntarily) longer than 72 hours without a court order.

In California, it's called a "5150 hold".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)

And even if you go in voluntarily, they don't have to keep you unless you can pay.

 

[Fairy1]

Yup. You can't be held (involuntarily) longer than 72 hours without a court order.

In California, it's called a "5150 hold".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5150_(Involuntary_psychiatric_hold)

And even if you go in voluntarily, they don't have to keep you unless you can pay.

So, they would just turn you out onto the streets of Las Vegas. So sad.

And on that note, here's my thinking about Steven being "lured" to Vegas....

First of all, there are plenty of "lost souls" right here who could have been lured. No need to look to St. George, UT for that. But thinking along the lines that whoever did lure him here "coached" him into leaving no trail - whatsoever - there is nothing in existence that leads back to them. So then, WHY hasn't Steven been found? Where is he?

 

[laytonian]

So, they would just turn you out onto the streets of Las Vegas. So sad.

And on that note, here's my thinking about Steven being "lured" to Vegas....

First of all, there are plenty of "lost souls" right here who could have been lured. No need to look to St. George, UT for that. But thinking along the lines that whoever did lure him here "coached" him into leaving no trail - whatsoever - there is nothing in existence that leads back to them. So then, WHY hasn't Steven been found? Where is he?

Naegle said something worth remembering, about him perhaps leaving on his own accord (with help or not): it's hard at first, then it gets easier to stay away from your family (paraphrasing).

The cops and shelters get to know the habitual homeless; they know who lives in your tunnels, under your overpasses, on your streets. Even if you're hiding from something, if you're on the street, you're eventually hauled in. Someone who has ID, will be known. Someone without ID, will be known by their street name. (This from an SLC news report I read a few years ago, when SLC and Denver were shipping the homeless back and forth via Greyhound.)

It seems he loved his guitar more than anything else. On the social network link I found, he mentions the guitar before his religion....(and the FB friend Matt quoted Steven as saying "the guitar would ruin my life".)

Maybe he's out strummin' his guitar on the streets of Vegas. Where do they do that? Fremont Street area?

 

[Fairy1]

Naegle said something worth remembering, about him perhaps leaving on his own accord (with help or not): it's hard at first, then it gets easier to stay away from your family (paraphrasing).

The cops and shelters get to know the habitual homeless; they know who lives in your tunnels, under your overpasses, on your streets. Even if you're hiding from something, if you're on the street, you're eventually hauled in. Someone who has ID, will be known. Someone without ID, will be known by their street name. (This from an SLC news report I read a few years ago, when SLC and Denver were shipping the homeless back and forth via Greyhound.)

It seems he loved his guitar more than anything else. On the social network link I found, he mentions the guitar before his religion....(and the FB friend Matt quoted Steven as saying "the guitar would ruin my life".)

Maybe he's out strummin' his guitar on the streets of Vegas. Where do they do that? Fremont Street area?

BBM - Noticed that too. And I believe it could be soooooo true.

There are TONS of places to play guitar here in Vegas - for $$$.

Is his guitar missing? Does he have more than one? Electric or acoustic?

 

[liz b.]

Not so much that Steven was lured from St.George ; No, IMO it was more random.He probably got into a casual conversation, maybe about work,jobs. As to nothing being traced back to his killer(s),that would be due to planning and forethought on the killer(s) part. And, I believe strongly that because Steven was naive,and probably too trusting, he fit the bill for a predator to lure and harm.Where is he ? Dumpster to landfill. Or, vehicle to desert. I would love to be proved wrong. Would love to hear that he's a street musician at the Fremont Experience ....

 

[laytonian]

BBM - Noticed that too. And I believe it could be soooooo true.

There are TONS of places to play guitar here in Vegas - for $$$.

Is his guitar missing? Does he have more than one? Electric or acoustic?

I doubt he'd be playing in a club for money. Too much competition, and he'd have to have ID for the hiring process.

I just figure he could pick up a guitar cheaply and let it ruin his life If his were missing, it'd have been mentioned.

But that's one of those fantasy things we come up with.

 

[laytonian]

Not so much that Steven was lured from St.George ; No, IMO it was more random.He probably got into a casual conversation, maybe about work,jobs. As to nothing being traced back to his killer(s),that would be due to planning and forethought on the killer(s) part. And, I believe strongly that because Steven was naive,and probably too trusting, he fit the bill for a predator to lure and harm.Where is he ? Dumpster to landfill. Or, vehicle to desert. I would love to be proved wrong. Would love to hear that he's a street musician at the Fremont Experience ....

I think if Steven were lured, it would be by someone he knew. Not a predator, but someone who offered him a job or help with a debt.

 

[Fairy1]

I doubt he'd be playing in a club for money. Too much competition, and he'd have to have ID for the hiring process.

I just figure he could pick up a guitar cheaply and let it ruin his life If his were missing, it'd have been mentioned.

But that's one of those fantasy things we come up with.

BBM - not necessarily.

Just bought my son a beautiful guitar (acoustic) for his 18th b-day - $100 bucks. Last year we got him an electric guitar - amp & all for $300.

Do I need to visit Fremont Street now? I've never seen any street-corner musicians there but, then again, I don't hang out there on a regular basis!

 

[Fairy1]

I think if Steven were lured, it would be by someone he knew. Not a predator, but someone who offered him a job or help with a debt.

...then what happened? And why?

 

[laytonian]

BBM - not necessarily.

Just bought my son a beautiful guitar (acoustic) for his 18th b-day - $100 bucks. Last year we got him an electric guitar - amp & all for $300.

Do I need to visit Fremont Street now? I've never seen any street-corner musicians there but, then again, I don't hang out there on a regular basis!

I wouldn't go looking for them. I wonder if there's a street corner musician union or something?

I think someone wanting to make a few bucks, could pick up a guitar in a pawn shop quite reasonably. If Steven left on his own, he took cash.

 

[laytonian]

...then what happened? And why?

That's when he gets over his head, unintentionally involved in something shady....and is no longer with us.

 

[liz b.]

Yes, but those two things, a predator, and someone who offered him help with a job or his debts, might not be mutually exclusive ? I think a predator only has to gain the trust of his victim, and he seeks the victim's weakspots or needs. But, I can't see it being someone Steven knew. Someone he knew ? Now,that really does open up a whole new can of worms. I'm going to think about this ...

 

[Fairy1]

That's when he gets over his head, unintentionally involved in something shady....and is no longer with us.

Then there had to have been an initial contact that wasn't "under the radar." Where is it? And what led him to it?

And....there are plenty of folks right here who could have fallen into such a trap. Why find someone from out of town?

 

[My6]

I think that is where GW comes in. I really do. He could be the contact from out of Vegas.. Why else isn't he talking? And why in the heck was he in Vegas the same time??

Until he comes clean with answers... He must have something to hide

IMO

Just sayin...

 

[renn3434]

Then there had to have been an initial contact that wasn't "under the radar." Where is it? And what led him to it?

And....there are plenty of folks right here who could have fallen into such a trap. Why find someone from out of town?

Unless they met online and didnt know how far apart they lived from one another.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

IMO, we really don't need to know the ins and outs of his church membership.

There's ONLY two reasons I want to know the details of the ward temple night:
1 - Because we can establish a date/time sighting, where several people would have seen him.
2 - Because someone said he was there

In regards to the temple, I was talking about his actual temple attendance. The "temple lights" is something anyone can go to.

The temples always put lights up and have "entertainment" for members and non-members alike.

The temple talk just made me think that maybe he was either attending temples in other areas or that he was no longer worthy to attend. I thought maybe he was going to other temples all those times he was in other cities. Salt Lake, etc. Is there a temple in Sacramento? I need to go look.

 

[renn3434]

BBM - not necessarily.

What doed BBM stand for? I googled it and I don't think it stands for:
Broke Back Mountain, Big Burly Man, Big Black Man or Big Mcgee. (these were my fovorites) :newbie:
TIA

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

There is a temple in Sacramento.

Laytonian,

Can you please ask Naegle if he had a current recommend? Is it missing?

If he left it behind, but took the Passport...then that would be suspect for sure. As I stated earlier.