NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 7

[Malini2001]

It would be nice to know for sure whether Steve was actually washing windows or just publicizing the company. Has Naegle talked to his boss? Would she be allowed to ask that?

 

[laytonian]

It would be nice to know for sure whether Steve was actually washing windows or just publicizing the company. Has Naegle talked to his boss? Would she be allowed to ask that?

Sure, she could ask -- as much as anyone else could. But I doubt she's doing to get "investigational", due to not having any insights into LE's thinking.

Plus, anyone who's at all potentially involved at all, in any way, even their tiny tippy-toes, shouldn't be confronted or questioned by non-LE. That could ruin a case. I don't think the PIs ever talked to the people we mention here.

 

[carbuff]

The idea that he got a job driving something somewhere and then met with foul play is the only one that doesn't leave any major loose ends. He left stuff in his car because he thought he was coming back; he parked where he did because he was told it would be safe to leave it there while he was working; he told the landlord he'd pay the rent because he thought he was getting paid.

Then the question would be, who set him up with the job, where did he go, and where is he now?

 

[SuziQ]

Zach Ruble UofU student, found outside Zion NP, no mention of journalism (bioengineering and environmental studies). Article discusses the other two Utah cases, neither having been a student, and each had been described as "despondent". Later follow-up by UofU paper.



Could be, if Steven had been an investigative journalist who'd uncovered crimes and put perps in the public eye. I don't remember him doing that.




I dunno. It seemed more of a social networking combination of performance art and suicide, to me.

Remember two weeks ago, when at least two bodies were found, miles and miles apart, in cars? The cars had signs on them warning that dangerous chemicals were inside. Where did that come from? Had you ever heard of that? Then suddenly, there's at least two.

But if these kinds of deaths are connected by more than online ideas, and Steven was associated, wouldn't they have wanted his body also found in that same notable and newsworthy manner....rather than disappeared?

We've wondered about serial killers. That's why we put the "similar cases" page together (bottom of our timeline page, there's a link).

Here is the link at WS to the Utah suicides by fire if anyone wants to take a look.

Suicides or Serial Killer Victim's? Three Utah bodies found in burning cars
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82373&highlight=zach+ruble

It appears the detergent suicides are a trend started in Japan. Yikes.

Dangerous Japanese ‘Detergent Suicide’ Technique Creeps Into U.S.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/03/japanese-deterg/

 

[RubyRed]

I don't think Steven's case fits the mo of these cases. moo

 

[laytonian]

Here is the link at WS to the Utah suicides by fire if anyone wants to take a look.

Suicides or Serial Killer Victim's? Three Utah bodies found in burning cars
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82373&highlight=zach+ruble

It appears the detergent suicides are a trend started in Japan. Yikes.

Dangerous Japanese ‘Detergent Suicide’ Technique Creeps Into U.S.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/03/japanese-deterg/

The Utah "chemical" case, just a month ago, was actually a self-inflicted gunshot:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9772003&autostart=y

Since I've been combing the news for "bodies" the past few months, I've come to realize that "suicide by fire" is more common than believed....and I'm kind of surprised that the three Utah deaths are seen as unusual (with people wanting to link them). Not always cars. Sometimes out in the open, and sometimes in homes.

It's not just the three Utah bodies....it's people all over the US. So, when looking for a link, shouldn't they all be included?

(IMO, the middle-30s aged men who "work with youth" are often found to seek out the youth for ulterior purposes -- so a suicide wouldn't be out of reason.)

 

[laytonian]

The idea that he got a job driving something somewhere and then met with foul play is the only one that doesn't leave any major loose ends. He left stuff in his car because he thought he was coming back; he parked where he did because he was told it would be safe to leave it there while he was working; he told the landlord he'd pay the rent because he thought he was getting paid.

Then the question would be, who set him up with the job, where did he go, and where is he now?

Someone who:
-- needed to remove suspicion from their own location/contacts
-- was aware of that cul de sac
-- knew Steven well enough, to know he needed a job
-- Steven owed money to (?)
-- needed him to drive several hundred miles
-- had a business that wasn't working out

Whatever it was, IMO, involved driving someone else's vehicle a considerable distance. Could have been a criminal act (delivery), or something legit like driving a purchased car cross-country. Or driving a rented Ryder truck for someone who was moving.

The fact that he disappeared in the end, shows he either put his trust in someone he should not have OR that he was paid enough at the end, that he started over.

:banghead:

 

[webrocket]

there was some discussion in one of the now 7 threads in this case suggesting that different threads be set up. My opinion at the time was that we would not learn from one another if we went our separate ways.

However, since I do not believe he was there for business or doing anything illegal, I find it hard to follow this thread with all the chatter about him knocking on doors for business or the wild speculation he was doing something criminal.

Does anyone now support the idea of creating different subtopics - voluntary disappearance, in SCA for legal business pursuits, in SCA for criminal purposes, suicide, in SCA for church or ancestry work?

I'm sure more theories were floated but I am having a hard time following them.

 

[laytonian]

there was some discussion in one of the now 7 threads in this case suggesting that different threads be set up. My opinion at the time was that we would not learn from one another if we went our separate ways.

However, since I do not believe he was there for business or doing anything illegal, I find it hard to follow this thread with all the chatter about him knocking on doors for business or the wild speculation he was doing something criminal.

Does anyone now support the idea of creating different subtopics - voluntary disappearance, in SCA for legal business pursuits, in SCA for criminal purposes, suicide, in SCA for church or ancestry work?

I'm sure more theories were floated but I am having a hard time following them.

I understand your frustration, but things are going to overlap. How do you regulate someone from mentioning something that's "off sub-topic" ?

IMO: I'm of the opposite tack: I wish there was only one thread, instead of 7
The reason this is going in all directions, is because there IS no single clue, scenario or consensus.

BUT....I'll support the group if they want to break up into "scenario" groups (I've got 14 or 15 of them on the scenarios page, and there's probably more)

 

[SuziQ]

The Utah "chemical" case, just a month ago, was actually a self-inflicted gunshot:
http://www.ksl.com/?nid=148&sid=9772003&autostart=y

Since I've been combing the news for "bodies" the past few months, I've come to realize that "suicide by fire" is more common than believed....and I'm kind of surprised that the three Utah deaths are seen as unusual (with people wanting to link them). Not always cars. Sometimes out in the open, and sometimes in homes.

It's not just the three Utah bodies....it's people all over the US. So, when looking for a link, shouldn't they all be included?

(IMO, the middle-30s aged men who "work with youth" are often found to seek out the youth for ulterior purposes -- so a suicide wouldn't be out of reason.)

I'm aware of how commom suicide by fire is, many of us in that thread know that too. However, that method is a small percentage of suicides. The thing that set these Utah cases apart were the similarities and how close together they occured, which is why they seemed more unusual than the rest. At the time they seemed different and unusal. That's what prompted a thread just for the Utah cases to begin with. If you notice the thread died back in April. I only posted that link because those cases were being talked about. Not because I think this is connected to Steven. In fact I do not think it is connected to Steven.

I merely posted the link about the detergent cases coming to the US because it was mentioned. I really have no opinion on it.

 

[CONCRNED CTZN]

there was some discussion in one of the now 7 threads in this case suggesting that different threads be set up. My opinion at the time was that we would not learn from one another if we went our separate ways.

However, since I do not believe he was there for business or doing anything illegal, I find it hard to follow this thread with all the chatter about him knocking on doors for business or the wild speculation he was doing something criminal.

Does anyone now support the idea of creating different subtopics - voluntary disappearance, in SCA for legal business pursuits, in SCA for criminal purposes, suicide, in SCA for church or ancestry work?

I'm sure more theories were floated but I am having a hard time following them.

Webrocket,

I don't like the idea of having to read a bunch of threads to see where people are with the case/or if they found supporting information. I have tended to agree with your thoughts, so with that said, what type of discussion would further your theories...I would be happy to support any ideas you might have. (In case this does "not come across" correctly, I am being sincere.)

Personally, I don't think that we can go anywhere (but all over) b/c of the lack of information. At least with these pretty out there thoughts (none of which go with a temple attending, church going Steven)...there are some new things being found out about SK. And I mention church, etc., b/c I think he was "fighting" things, but that he had not given into them. Robbing and stealing are not things I feel like he was fighting either.

 

[SuziQ]

Actually we can't just decide to have different threads for the same case. That approval has to come from a moderator and usually results in a forum.

 

[RubyRed]

I say leave it as one thread , I think everyone's theories are valuable. It doesn't bother me to read others opinions. I don't find others opinions as chatter. We do not know what happened so it is all speculation anyway. moo

 

[hoppyfrog]

Actually we can't just decide to have different threads for the same case. That approval has to come from a moderator and usually results in a forum.

If you guys want your own forum for this case, email Tricia and ask her. You can tell her that I am supportive of creating such a forum.

You would also need a mini-mod to help run it. Tell her who you would like to see as mini-mod, or volunteer yourself.

Hoppy
mod

 

[seekingsusan]

I don't particularly want to see the thread chopped up. A few weeks ago they did that to the Susan Powell thread; now every time I want to get up to date I have to try and remember where I left off on 5 or 6 threads instead of 1. And even though they've all been split up, they still overlap. Finally Tricia decided to go back to a general discussion thread, and once again the case is much easier to follow. I also noticed significantly fewer people were posting once the thread was split up, just from the confusion. I also don't really want to "elect" or let someone volunteer to mini-moderate our discussions. I already feel a little over-moderated, MOO, repeat MOO.

ETA: But after 43 pages, we could probably use a new thread.....unless we're changing things.

 

[Mia]

Craiglist and the local classifieds have adds asking if people are going in a certain direction and if they could take something for them for x amount of dollars. I used to know someone who used to drive from Utah to Oregon and back to visit family on a regular basis. He would place an add saying he was doing this on a certain date if anyone had anything they wanted taken up there, for a fee of course.

I just can't imagine a drug dealer entrusting thousands of dollars or more worth of product to some anonymous person on craigslist. to get it where it needs to go. If this actually happens, I am shocked.

 

[Mia]

Please, no sub-threads/forum. Fewer people post when a forum is created, and it's harder to read all the posts as well/keep up with all the sub-threads. I'm quite happy with how things are!

 

[Fairy1]

The idea that he got a job driving something somewhere and then met with foul play is the only one that doesn't leave any major loose ends. He left stuff in his car because he thought he was coming back; he parked where he did because he was told it would be safe to leave it there while he was working; he told the landlord he'd pay the rent because he thought he was getting paid.

Then the question would be, who set him up with the job, where did he go, and where is he now?

Acutally, anyone familiar with that area in SCA should have known the car wouldn't be safe there for long. They would have known the HOA would be all over it. He would have been better off parking in a neighborhood that doesn't have an HOA if the car was going to be there for any length of time.

That being said, what's to say Steven didn't come back for his car 5 or 6 days later and discovered it was gone? If he was returning from something he shouldn't have been doing, he'd have a lot of 'splainin to do to anyone he called for help!

And if we're taking a vote on breaking up the threads for a forum, I vote NO, NO, NO! I think Laytonian's timeline is more than sufficient for keeping track of the few facts we have. Everything else is speculation at this point and, IMO, each theory needs to be discussed by the group here until we have something solid to work with.

 

[laytonian]

Acutally, anyone familiar with that area in SCA should have known the car wouldn't be safe there for long. They would have known the HOA would be all over it. He would have been better off parking in a neighborhood that doesn't have an HOA if the car was going to be there for any length of time.

But it was safe for four days. The elder patrol didn't even start calling about it, until it sat there for two days.

That being said, what's to say Steven didn't come back for his car 5 or 6 days later and discovered it was gone? If he was returning from something he shouldn't have been doing, he'd have a lot of 'splainin to do to anyone he called for help!

All he'd have had to do was return to St George, and report his car stolen.
They don't investigate stolen cars that heavily. My neighbor's wife reported HIS car stolen from their garage; it turns out that dh had parked it a block away, two days earlier. (No, there has never been an explanation for that bit of silliness, and the police never asked.)

 

[laytonian]

I just can't imagine a drug dealer entrusting thousands of dollars or more worth of product to some anonymous person on craigslist. to get it where it needs to go. If this actually happens, I am shocked.

I can see Steven falling for some kind of "deliver this" scheme....presented by an acquaintance.