NV NV - Steven T. Koecher, 30, Henderson, 13 Dec 2009 - # 8

[RubyRed]

So it was originally thought Steven talked to GW in the afternoon on Dec. 13.
Did GW clarify this himself or was it the cell records, that confirmed the time.

 

[dovebar]

If we get something else that conflicts with it, sure. Not a theory, but someone else's word that they're standing by OR when logic tells us (based on something we've learned) that it couldn't have taken place then. We don't even know the time of day it occurred.

I don't believe in throwing out information, just to make a theory more plausible.

This is the first version of the timeline, given to us by Naegle on Jan 13th. Naegle didn't find out until later about TH and SK, and told us on Jan 17th. That's when SK's and AN's mothers got together and decided (weeks later) that Steven went to Ruby Valley on the 9th.

Obviously, anyone's welcome to create their own timeline; I have no ownership and would like to see what someone else comes up with.

Laytonian, I'm not questioning your timeline at all, or what people say, so I apologize if my questions seemed too pointed. I really am just brainstorming, thinking out loud, etc.

It seems odd to me that TH doesn't say exactly when he gave SK the money, and why (back wages? advance against salary? friendly help?). If I gave someone that amount of money, I think I'd remember when and where I gave it to them.

But then I think, my own memory is terrible and if cops asked me whether I met someone on Thursday or Friday, there's a good chance I couldn't remember unless something memorable happened on either day.

 

[dovebar]

Steven was a reader.

Perhaps he read this book, which was published in paperback in 2007, but got renewed media attention in the summer of 2009. It is about the society of people who live in the tunnels beneath Las Vegas.

Beneath the Neon: Life and Death in the Tunnels of Las Vegas (Paperback)
~ Matthew O'Brien (Author)

On the one hand, it doesn't make sense to me that if Steven planned his disappearance, that he wouldn't take his remaining money and a few possessions, like his shaving kit and a blanket.

On the other hand, maybe there are organizations that help the homeless, besides the group that provides meals in the park, who could be contacted to put out the word about Steven's disappearance and the reward.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/22/nation/la-na-tunnel22-2009dec22

 

[dovebar]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700014747/Database-can-crack-missing-person-cases-2-if-used.html

Does anyone know if this database has been tried in Steven's case?

 

[carbuff]

Random thought:

Maybe he didn't take his shaving kit because he was planning to let his beard grow? That would certainly make him less recognizable, also.

 

[TRL]

I don't post often and I haven't been able to keep up with this thread as much as I would like, so please forgive me if this idea has been explored.

This morning I started thinking about Steven and where he could be. And then it just hit me. What if it's as simple as Steven was going there to visit a woman he was having a relationship with? And this woman might have been married. This could explain Steven parking far away and the folder could have been a "prop" in case the husband were home or he came home. Steven could easily explain his existence away by saying he was there to promote his business, etc. Maybe the husband came home and caught them, therefore harming Steven, or maybe the husband had found out about his wife's affair and was just waiting for the next time Steven showed up. It might be way out there, but it's just a thought.

MOO

 

[laytonian]

http://www.deseretnews.com/article/700014747/Database-can-crack-missing-person-cases-2-if-used.html

Does anyone know if this database has been tried in Steven's case?

Yes, we know. He's been listed there for a long time....and I'm sure I'm not the only one who searches periodically for newly-listed unidentified remains.

It's really not hard to search there. Try it out.

 

[laytonian]

.

On the other hand, maybe there are organizations that help the homeless, besides the group that provides meals in the park, who could be contacted to put out the word about Steven's disappearance and the reward.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/22/nation/la-na-tunnel22-2009dec22

Yes, there are such organizations in Vegas, and they were contacted during the very first search for Steven.

 

[laytonian]

Laytonian, I'm not questioning your timeline at all, or what people say, so I apologize if my questions seemed too pointed. I really am just brainstorming, thinking out loud, etc.

I understand. I'm thinking back at ya

It seems odd to me that TH doesn't say exactly I rudely interrupt dovebar

That's an assumption.

MY assumption is that whoever talked to TH, asked him more than "when did you last see Steven". (Anyway I hope they did!)

We don't know what the conversation was. We only know what's been reported to us.

continue dovebar
when he gave SK the money, and why (back wages? advance against salary? friendly help?). If I gave someone that amount of money, I think I'd remember when and where I gave it to them.

But then I think, my own memory is terrible and if cops asked me whether I met someone on Thursday or Friday, there's a good chance I couldn't remember unless something memorable happened on either day.

TH spoke to either LE, the family's PIs or the family itself (or maybe some combination of the three). We don't know what the entire conversation was. For all we know, Travis could have let Steven go, and given him $100 as his final wages. But he did say something about Steven being "diligent" (if I'm remember the word correctly).

If TH is running a business-like business, he's got records and OUTGO is tax-deductible. Cash businesses like to hide income, but they diligently record their expenses...and that would have been one of them.

BUT, now I'm getting close to an assumption (that he has such records and could tell when he paid Steven).

We know Steven had some cash on his Ruby Valley trip, because some cash receipts were found in the car. He may have spent other cash on food, but eaten inside and the receipts were discarded. We don't know. (Just an exlanation.)

$100 isn't much. Nothing in his bank account, only what his mother had deposited (I'M ASSUMING that went into the "group bank account" that everyone could access).

-------ETA:

Keep thinking. If you haven't recently, go through the timeline and click on the news links. I've tried to put every non-repetitive story there, and they tell us that homeless shelters were checked, etc, etc.

We need people bouncing ideas off each other. Around here, if no one responds, that's when you know your idea is hinky

Here's the best example of collaboration I can remember right now: When we found out about the temple ward night, that threw the timeline into a loop and I practically drove everyone here nuts, trying to come up with an alternate route he could have driven. Then Lato told me HERE (basically) that I was looking at the information wrong, and that the purchases didn't support the shorter route.
I was playing with software; Lato got out a paper map and LOOKED at Nevada. That's the alternate view that it took. That's when we "moved" the RV drive to *after* ward temple night.

So (hopefully), it's collaborative.

 

[laytonian]

Random thought:

Maybe he didn't take his shaving kit because he was planning to let his beard grow? That would certainly make him less recognizable, also.

I've been wondering what he'd look like, a bit thinner, with longer hair and facial hair.

His profile (that cute, kinda-beaky nose) would be the only giveaway.

It's kinda hard to hide a nose, but you an change hair color, wear sunglasses, etc.

 

[laytonian]

So it was originally thought Steven talked to GW in the afternoon on Dec. 13.
Did GW clarify this himself or was it the cell records, that confirmed the time.

I'm going to assume it was the cellphone records, because there'd be no reason for LE to hide an afternoon call of such importance.

That's a huge difference that's always bothered me, though....and from Naegle's original post, it was obvious it bothered her, too.

ETA:
I just updated the timeline page, to show a link to that original timeline. (I should have had it there, all along)

 

[RubyRed]

Just re-reading the timeline

December 13, 2009 11AM Paul Doxey called Steven from a PEC meeting to ask if he could attend a meeting that night. Steven replied that he was in Las Vegas, but could get back to St George for the meeting.

So he was planning to go back to St. George, if needed. So his intentions were to return.

Sun Dec 13 Las Vegas, NV area 8:57am 7:57am President GW calls Counselor Koecher, telling him that he's in Vegas .

Still weird they were both in Vegas, at 8am. Yet didn't connect.

 

[sbakker]

Just re-reading the timeline



So he was planning to go back to St. George, if needed. So his intentions were to return.


Still weird they were both in Vegas, at 8am. Yet didn't connect.

Yes, I find that very interesting also. When you are in the Elder's Quorem presidency, you know before Sunday who will be conducting the meeting. So if GW was going to be out of town, he would have already known and asked someone to conduct the meeting. Was it a emergency that he was gone? And I read somewhere that Steven always called when he could not be at a meeting,home teach,etc. I just find it a little weird...

 

[Fairy1]

Steven was a reader.

Perhaps he read this book, which was published in paperback in 2007, but got renewed media attention in the summer of 2009. It is about the society of people who live in the tunnels beneath Las Vegas.

Beneath the Neon: Life and Death in the Tunnels of Las Vegas (Paperback)
~ Matthew O'Brien (Author)

On the one hand, it doesn't make sense to me that if Steven planned his disappearance, that he wouldn't take his remaining money and a few possessions, like his shaving kit and a blanket.

On the other hand, maybe there are organizations that help the homeless, besides the group that provides meals in the park, who could be contacted to put out the word about Steven's disappearance and the reward.

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/dec/22/nation/la-na-tunnel22-2009dec22

I can't see Steven purposely setting out for one of these "communities." There are a lot of undesireables in those tunnels. HOWEVER, if he did stay on the streets of Vegas for any length of time after he went missing and hooked up with other homeless people, he could have been led there at some point and living there now.

I sure hope that's not the case.

 

[laytonian]

Just re-reading the timeline


Quote:
December 13, 2009 11AM PD called Steven from a PEC meeting to ask if he could attend a meeting that night. Steven replied that he was in Las Vegas, but could get back to St George for the meeting.

So he was planning to go back to St. George, if needed. So his intentions were to return.

That's from the original timeline - and was later clarified by PD.

Look at our timeline, at the 11:10am phone call. According to PD, they were asking SK he could be at the PEC meeting which had already begun, because Webb wasn't there yet.
Doxey didn't make the call; SA did.

Quote:
Sun Dec 13 Las Vegas, NV area 8:57am 7:57am President GW calls Counselor Koecher, telling him that he's in Vegas .

Still weird they were both in Vegas, at 8am. Yet didn't connect.

That apparently was a time overlap.
GW went to Vegas on Friday. SK wouldn't have gone earlier than 10:30pm on Saturday....or Sunday morning, depending.

If we take Webb at his word, he left Vegas late and realized he couldn't get back for the 11am meeting -- which is why he called Steven to see if he could cover the meeting.

Yeah, weird they both went to the same place. The question is: did either know the other was there?
Another question: did they really even "hang out" together?

 

[laytonian]

I can't see Steven purposely setting out for one of these "communities." There are a lot of undesireables in those tunnels. HOWEVER, if he did stay on the streets of Vegas for any length of time after he went missing and hooked up with other homeless people, he could have been led there at some point and living there now.

I sure hope that's not the case.

A group of homeless people are probably safer than one straggler.


But I can't see him setting out to live on the streets.

First of all, would he even be aware of the Vegas homeless communities or the tunnels? How?

Second, why would he have parked in SCA? How would he get downtown, when the nearest bus stop is five miles away? A cab was really the only choice.

 

[RubyRed]

Yes, I find that very interesting also. When you are in the Elder's Quorem presidency, you know before Sunday who will be conducting the meeting. So if GW was going to be out of town, he would have already known and asked someone to conduct the meeting. Was it a emergency that he was gone? And I read somewhere that Steven always called when he could not be at a meeting,home teach,etc. I just find it a little weird...

President GW calls Counselor Koecher, telling him that he's in Vegas and asks Steven to attend the 11:00am PEC meeting at the ward. Steven says he's in Vegas, but would attend if needed. Webb says he's enroute to St George himself, so will cover it himself. Call lasts two minutes.(Source: KCN/phone records/Webb/Doxey) Naegle later spoke to GW: "He went to Las Vegas on the 11th and spent the weekend with friends in the Vegas area. He headed home on Sunday(13th) morning. He called Steven because he wasn't going to be in St George in time for the planning meeting and wanted to see if he could cover. He called when he was on I-15 passing the raceway in Vegas. He continued home and made it to the normal church meetings at noon." .

bbm
According to this he had a week-end planned with friends.

Was headed back to St. George, yet called Steven because he wasn't sure he was going to make it.

So he was on I-15 passing the raceway. What made that call so important that he would know exactly where he was when he talked to Steven.

I talk to people too but I am not sure I could tell you exactly where I am when I do it. Now if it is a life altering event, like when my Dad passed away, Yes I could tell you where I was. Just seems like a little bit too much info. Like he wanted to really verify exactly where he was at. I don't know it just rubs me the wrong way. Is anyone else thinking this is a little bit too exact?

 

[laytonian]

Yes, I find that very interesting also. When you are in the Elder's Quorem presidency, you know before Sunday who will be conducting the meeting. So if GW was going to be out of town, he would have already known and asked someone to conduct the meeting. Was it a emergency that he was gone? And I read somewhere that Steven always called when he could not be at a meeting,home teach,etc. I just find it a little weird...

I think GW screwed up, and left Vegas late.

Steven, on the other hand, never intended to go to the meeting AND (in an increasingly-fragile state of mind, which I think he was), wouldn't have called anyone.

No matter what the outcome, I think by Saturday night, Steven had made some kind of decision. Or someone had made one for him.

 

[carbuff]

bbm
According to this he had a week-end planned with friends.

Was headed back to St. George, yet called Steven because he wasn't sure he was going to make it.

So he was on I-15 passing the raceway. What made that call so important that he would know exactly where he was when he talked to Steven.

I talk to people too but I am not sure I could tell you exactly where I am when I do it. Now if it is a life altering event, like when my Dad passed away, Yes I could tell you where I was. Just seems like a little bit too much info. Like he wanted to really verify exactly where he was at. I don't know it just rubs me the wrong way. Is anyone else thinking this is a little bit too exact?

If I were a conspiracy theory type of person, I'd say that it sounds like they were thinking, "These calls are going to show up on the call records, so we'd better have an explanation for what we were talking about. One that doesn't mention what we were really talking about.

 

[RubyRed]

Let's look at this as a hypothetical. If Steven were a female that went missing.

- Le would look at who she knew
-who was in the area that was acquainted with her
-and did they change their routine in any way.
-who had one of the last contacts with her


GW fits all four of the criteria.