GUILTY NV - Tammy Meyers, 44, fatally shot at her Las Vegas home, 12 Feb 2015 - #5

[Steleheart]

If BM did chamber it in the car at a different place from the home, it would seem to me to indicate premeditation on his part, no?

To me it would only mean being ready to defend myself.

:cow:

 

[Hiandmighty]

Sorry. This phone has a lot of trouble navigating this forum for some reason.
I can't really answer any of the questions but I agree with....I believe it was "Sonjay"
That eluded to that he probably already had one in the chamber, forgot about it and
When he racked the slide a new round entered the chamber from the magazine thus
Tossing the unfired round that was already in the chamber onto the floor.

But when did he do that? And where?

 

[Miss Muffet]

Quote within Sonjay's post:

He told me that at the time that the shots were fired toward his vehicle from the suspect's vehicle down at Alta and Villa Monterey that he at that point attempted to load his firearm by racking the slide and he said that he was ducking down, he was very scared, and he may have racked it more than once which would mean a live cartridge would be ejected from the gun.

It's also very possible he did those two racks when he was brandishing the gun at the first shooting scene and that instigated EN to start firing before BM got started, right?

 

[Hiandmighty]

To me it would only mean being ready to defend myself.

:cow:

Or an offensive maneuver.

I guess it depends on where and when he chambered first.

 

[Miss Muffet]

But when did he do that? And where?

Sonjay quoted someone she refers to as Mogg. I assume that's an officer. If so, that tells me that's the answer BM gave the officer when he was asked to explain why the bullet was in the passenger seat. I think we can all agree that it being possible doesn't mean it's true.

 

[newone]

But when did he do that? And where?

when he was hunkered down as per his statement to the Detective in the car at the first scene #374


'
from same testimony Det M
indicates that live 9 mm round could be explained that BM was nervous in car and had difficulty loading gun


pg 116
''he at that point attempted to load his firearm by racking the slide and he said that he was ducking down, he was very scared, and he may
have racked it more than once which would mean a live cartridge would be ejected from the gun."

 

[Matic]

Also. I am very familiar with the Ruger p90 and the p89 (9mm) which I believe is built on pretty much the same frame.
And agree. Both bulky, heavy guns and difficult to conceal.
My guess would be it was a khar .45 or possibly a glock. Either a double stack model 30 or a single stack 36.
The 21 is a full size frame so I don't think it was that. He's a tiny kid and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a full size frame .45.

 

[Hiandmighty]

To me, this may be a point the defense can work with.

 

[Miss Muffet]

To me it would only mean being ready to defend myself.

That's because you're not the type of person who would engage in a high speed car chase with a handgun.

Put yourself in his mindset---chasing a car a high speed with a handgun.

Then what does it mean to you?

 

[Matic]

But when did he do that? And where?

Probably long before they got to the meyers house. Probably just so amped up he forgot about it.

 

[Hiandmighty]

Also. I am very familiar with the Ruger p90 and the p89 (9mm) which I believe is built on pretty much the same frame.
And agree. Both bulky, heavy guns and difficult to conceal.
My guess would be it was a khar .45 or possibly a glock. Either a double stack model 30 or a single stack 36.
The 21 is a full size frame so I don't think it was that. He's a tiny kid and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a full size frame .45.

It was identified as a Ruger by the detective. So not a glock. (Glock was my thinking before ruger was brought into the story)...

 

[Matic]

Quote within Sonjay's post:


It's also very possible he did those two racks when he was brandishing the gun at the first shooting scene and that instigated EN to start firing before BM got started, right?

Exactly.

 

[Steleheart]

I'm still reading hiandmighty's short notes. I'll read the entire thing later tonight.

In the meantime, I have a comment.

BM says the car came down Mt. Shasta shooting. He ran behind the truck and shot back. The car backed out of Mt. Shasta.

Think about this. That means the passenger side of the car was facing the opposite side of the street from the Meyers house the entire time. Even heading straight towards the house, it would have been difficult to shoot out the passenger window without sitting out the car window.

Wait. I'm going to talk to my expert witness.

I finally told him my previous questions were about a shooting. I didn't go into detail at all. This is tedious to explain our conversation so I'm going to share the exact conversation I had with my husband so you guys can figure out if I missed asking something.

MM: Imaging you're in the passenger seat, and you're the shooter in a shooting. The car is heading down a street towards a cul-de-sac. The house is on the upper left side of the cul-de-sac at 10:30 the driveway is at 11 oclock. How would you shoot at the house and driveway?"

(I show him a street view of the cul-de-sac since we have a bit of a disagreement on the actual terminology between a cul-de-sac and dead end street. LMAO!.)

Hubby: What type of car is it?

MM: Audi

Hubby: Does it have a sunroof?

MM: I don't think so. Let me show you a picture of it. (find picture and show it.) I believe it was said the shooting came from the passenger side. How would you shoot? Wouldn't you need to sit in the edge of the passenger window?

Hubby: What type of firearm?

MM: handgun

Hubby: What's stopping me from just holding the gun out the passenger window around to the front?

MM: You're a little waif. (I find picture of EN.) Wouldn't that mean you'd practically have your face almost to the windshield?

(That inspires my husband to ask the following)

Hubby: Who is the driver?

MM: They haven't caught him yet. They don't have the car either. I don't even know if they have the gun.

Hubby: What type of handgun is it?

MM: 45

Hubby: That's a tough handgun to shoot with one hand.

I stopped asking him questions then. I haven't even asked him to elaborate his thoughts.

It seems it's possible he didn't shoot as it was coming down the street like BM says. It also seems possible the car didn't back out like BM says. Think of how many 45 shots were fired on Mt. Shasta. That kid is a little thing with no muscle. A 45 is heavy and has kick.

I just asked hubby again if it would really be that hard to shoot a 45 that many times with one arm. He says it was heavy and had a kick when he shot one. He's only practiced with 45 at a shooting rage once. He says maybe it's possible if he shot it all the time and his arm was used to it. But I got the impression that EN only recently acquired the 45.

ETA: Sonjay & SpanishInquisition, you both have a 45. What's your opinion on waif EN having the strength to fire off that many rounds with one arm? How much practice do you think he would have needed to build up the strength to do that? I got the impression from the warrant that he only acquired this gun within a couple of weeks or so.
.

He would make a good interrogator

:cow:

 

[newone]

upon reading the documents it was interesting to me that EN refused to reveal identity of his friend
but he did describe him as white and fat and 5'11''

it was also interesting that EN refused to enter one of two of his friend's vehicles at the school upon seeing the green car again

the car EN was riding in was described by him to detective was cream colored not grey or silver

 

[Miss Muffet]

Also. I am very familiar with the Ruger p90 and the p89 (9mm) which I believe is built on pretty much the same frame.
And agree. Both bulky, heavy guns and difficult to conceal.
My guess would be it was a khar .45 or possibly a glock. Either a double stack model 30 or a single stack 36.
The 21 is a full size frame so I don't think it was that. He's a tiny kid and I'm pretty sure it wasn't a full size frame .45.

Take into consideration he didn't go to a gun shop and select the perfect gun for his frame. He got this gun off some guy, can't remember his name. I'm sure he got whatever the guy was selling. If he had options, don't you think a punk kid would buy the biggest handgun available t be macho? We can only speculate until we know what type of gun. If LE didn't recover it, we'll never know.

To me, this may be a point the defense can work with.

Which point? The size of EN's gun? Or the bullet in the passenger seat?

 

[Hiandmighty]

P. 96

What EN told Det. Mogg:

" At that point he told me, "Okay. I'm going
to tell you what happened. I'll tell you the truth. You don't have to ask me all these questions. I'll tell you." And he began to relay that he had been threatened and so that's the reason why he had a handgun with him. He would later describe that handgun as a Ruger which is consistent with the information I had received previously. He also told me that he was up in the area of the park which is just to the east of his residence along Cherry River Drive, across the street to the west of Johnson Middle School. He said he was standing in the park and it was dark. He looked across the park and saw a green car in the parking lot of the school. And he told me that every time he would go left, the car would go left, he'd go right, the car would go right, and he felt that these were the people that were coming after him to get him. So at that point he said "I went back into the park and they just kind of stayed there and I came back out. They were still there." So he took his pistol out and he described for me, explained to me how he had racked the chamber, or the slide rather three times, and that he said that he even unloaded it when they would go away but then they would come right back so he thought for sure these were the people that were after him. He said that at that point he was supposed to meet up with a couple of girls whom he had placed a call into but then he called them again and canceled that because he didn't want them to be there if something were to go wrong. At that point he called two friends whom he refused to identify to me and asked them to come and assist him. At one point he said that he was actually waiting in the park and didn't want to get into one of his friends' vehicles until the green car had left the area. Eventually the green car leaves the area. He said he got into the vehicle with a friend of his whom he described as a white male. He was sitting, Nowsch was sitting in the front passenger seat, the other male was the driver, and he describes the car as a cream colored four door vehicle. He said they were sitting on the side of the street when all of a sudden the green car came around behind them again, and they pulled away, he said the green car started chasing them, described how they went down a street, and then he said at one point he was waving his pistol out the passenger window of the car that he was in up in the air and he couldn't believe that the car that was behind him didn't see that and stop and just go away. So he said we got down to the end of the road where the 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 was, and that was the markings on the roadway from the cartridge casings and the cartridge that was recovered during the late evening, early morning hours of the 12th and 13th at Villa Monterey and Alta.


"Let me just stop you there, Detective Mogg. As he's describing these events to you, he ultimately describes in the first shooting event that he fires that .45 caliber weapon out the passenger window of the car he was in." "That's correct"


EN went to crime scene and looked at the evidence markers:

"He had actually, from the time of the actual time he pulled the trigger till the time you were sitting there interviewing him, he had gone back to that location, looked down on the street and had actually seen the circles and the different evidence tag numbers that crime scene analysts had painted on the street?
A. That's correct."




"I believe that he said he fired six times. I don't recall exactly the number that he said he fired. But he did describe firing multiple times from that location and he also told me, he says, I couldn't, "I don't believe I didn't hit them." At that point he said the car that was following him had stopped and actually backed up and he and the other male drove westbound on Alta towards Cimarron. He said as he was driving westbound with the other male, he says "No, this can't be happening, this can't be happening." And he describes how the car was coming, the green car the victim was in, was coming down the street. And based on my knowledge of the scene, the location of the victim's residence, the location of his residence where he would have been at approximately the time that the victim was driving westbound on Cherry River, basically paralleling him to try to get home, he would have seen that car coming down from Cherry River onto Carmel Peak probably prior to or just as it turned into the Mount Shasta cul-de-sac. He said they continued westbound and he said that he couldn't believe they were driving past his house. His house is further to the west on Cherry River than Carmel Peak. So they turned around and they came back and he said "I know a left turn, a shortcut to get to my house," something to that effect. They come back into the cul-de-sac on Mount Shasta where the victim was shot. He says as they pull into the cul-de-sac, again he's sitting in the passenger seat of the vehicle, their vehicle kind of turns sideways is how he draws it, he sees the victim's vehicle at the end of the cul-de-sac with the driver door open and he sees someone running whom he describes as a male with a beard from maybe the passenger side of the car toward the house. He believes at that point that this person is going to get, in his terms, more straps or guns and so he said that he also saw heads in the vehicle so he started shooting at the car and then he saw the person running toward the house and I believe his quote was, "I can't let this mother****er get away from me." So he started shooting at the person that was running also. At that point they left the area and he said he was dropped off by the driver of the vehicle."

Page 101 ^^^^^^

 

[Matic]

It was identified as a Ruger by the detective. So not a glock. (Glock was my thinking before ruger was brought into the story)...

Gotcha. Im still playing catch up.
I backed out of this thread for a bit when the Myers couldn't figure out which story they should stick with.
Popped back in hoping for some new news.

 

[Matic]

Kinda odd that he would unload it when they went away.
Loaded or unloaded, if you get caught with it without a licence, you are going to catch a weapons charge.

 

[Miss Muffet]

He would make a good interrogator

That's an understatement. I've lived 25 years with this man's questions. It's his MO. He questions everything instead of outright stating what he wants to know or wants done differently. Just this morning, he asked, "What happened to the microwave turntable plate?" What? "What happened to the microwave turntable plate?" What are you saying? "What happened to the microwave turntable plate?" I have NO IDEA what you're talking about. "Forget it. That answers my question." In other words, he determined that I wasn't the culprit.

 

[Steleheart]

That's because you're not the type of person who would engage in a high speed car chase with a handgun.

Put yourself in his mindset---chasing a car a high speed with a handgun.

Then what does it mean to you?

BBMs;


~ LOL No I am not.

~ I did that and that is why I say "it would only mean" I am ready to defend myself... Asked and answered Your Honor. :laughing:


So if I am him and I am in a car chase and for whatever lame brained reason I have not yet hit 911, I would still want to be ready. Chambering a round is not evidence of premeditated murder IMO.

Chasing, well. heh.

:cow: