NY NY - Alice Parsons: Heiress, Long Island, 1937

[Marilynilpa]

For those who are interested in Anna, Roy's widow told me she died in 1984 in California. I haven't looked for her death announcement, and I don't have a specific date.

 

[Marilynilpa]

One last strange family tree bit of info...

Timothy Shaler William's mother (Alice's uncle) was Frances Henrietta GRANT. Frank D MacDonell (Alice's father) married Grace E GRANT after her (Alice's mother) died.

Again, maybe no connection but...what are the chances?

That's very interesting - I wasn't aware Frank ever remarried.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Sorry if this has been posted already - I'm going through boxes of stuff and posting things as I find them

Anna's maiden name Anna Stanislava Shishkova.

 

[zwiebel]

I've got totally confused with all the family members now. I don't know how everyone keeps track of them all.

I suppose the information I'd most like to know (apart from where Alice is, of course) is the date William and Anna first met. And also the names and information about the Russians William went to meet, the day Alice disappeared. I can't recall if it's been mentioned now, but I presume William's alibi was thoroughly checked out. Maybe the FBI got to talk to the Russians he met too?

 

[Ausgirl]

I'm really curious about those Russians, too.. we know they were apparently friends of Anna, and were seeing William about a squab paste recipe...

... now, was that a different, more exciting squab paste recipe than the one Anna had already shared? I am assuming they were already making squab paste by that time, yes?

It just strikes me as totally fishy that this meeting between William and a pile of Anna's Russian pals occurs the very day Alice vanishes.

IF the meeting actually occurred. Were there witnesses who saw William at the meeting? I am assuming so, as LE would have been all over that. But then, how hard is it for Anna's pals to give her lover an alibi?

 

[Marilynilpa]

I'm really curious about those Russians, too.. we know they were apparently friends of Anna, and were seeing William about a squab paste recipe...

... now, was that a different, more exciting squab paste recipe than the one Anna had already shared? I am assuming they were already making squab paste by that time, yes?

It just strikes me as totally fishy that this meeting between William and a pile of Anna's Russian pals occurs the very day Alice vanishes.

IF the meeting actually occurred. Were there witnesses who saw William at the meeting? I am assuming so, as LE would have been all over that. But then, how hard is it for Anna's pals to give her lover an alibi?

Yes, it's kind of hard to figure out just how much more exciting a squab paste recipe could be. Alice and William had been raising squab for a number of years by 1937, and they were actually using Anna's recipe for squab paste.

LE was able to confirm that William got on the train that morning, and I found an almost indecipherable report from LE that I think confirmed he had a meeting with Anna's friends. That report was in the Suffolk County PD records that I viewed a couple of years ago.

The timing of the meeting is very questionable, and I think Anna set it up to get William out of the way. She wanted to make sure no suspicion would ever fall on him, because that would ruin her whole plan.

I don't think William knew ahead of time what Anna had in mind that day, but he found out as soon as he got home. At that point, he had two choices - tell LE what Anna had done, or cover up for her. And we know he didn't tell LE what she did. JMO.

 

[zwiebel]

I wish I had started a timeline now, it makes it so much easier to look things up and remember them. Do we know if William came home before the trash collectors were refused entry, or afterwards? Even the most trusting person would have their suspicions raised if they came home to find their wife missing and the housekeeper forbidding entry to the basement.

Really, if the way we think this might have played out is correct, how horrific for Roy. Even if he wasn't aware or made to be involved in anything at the time, being questioned by police and just hearing the rumours would be enough to give a child nightmares.

In all the best stories of course, people leave confession notes on their deathbed explaining everything. Doesn't look like it happened here though. All three people who might possibly have known something are dead. Even the Russians William met will be too. Although if they were involved, they might have confided in others. So there is still a tiny chance there is someone out there with information.

 

[zwiebel]

Just thought - wouldn't Roy have been at school the day Alice disappeared? I wonder if it was normal practice for children to eat lunch at school in those days, or go home?

 

[zwiebel]

Well, I found this. Not exactly what I was looking for but if anyone goes, don't forget to check if they mention squab paste! A free exhibition all about the history of NY food, runs till February:

http://www.nypl.org/press/press-rel...e-new-york-public-library-new-free-exhibition

 

[zwiebel]

Infuriating. www.foodtimeline.org/foodschools.html has a complete section on the history of school lunches and I cannot get the site to load.

Just from the bit revealed on the google search though, it looks like NY introduced a programme to feed a million children school lunch in 1937, but children in rural areas usually went home for lunch.

 

[zwiebel]

For the first time in ages, I did a search and got more info than I could have imagined. It's all about squab dishes on hotel menus. This archive has images of actual menus from the early part of this century, and volunteers have also transcribed them. Squab dishes of all kinds feature on them. Scroll through to no 48 and you'll see they were on the Sherman Square Hotel's menu in 1937. There are different-named squab dishes on the buttons on the bottom too, I don't know if one of them is an exotic name for squab paste. It does look as though squabs could have been quite big business in the years before WW2.

http://menus.nypl.org/search?utf8=✓&query=squab

 

[Pink Panther]

Good heavens, we need a family tree for all this! They are beginning to sound like those old European Royal houses, with all their 'keep it in the family' way of intermarriages. And just look what happened to them!

How on earth did Anna, after being implicated in a case like this, manage to erase her past so effectively? And keep it that way until she died?

Pink Panther, have you any ideas about how I could trace Anna in England? I haven't been able to find anything, not even in msm at the time of Alice's disappearance. British papers are usually interested in American goings on, but I guess in 1937 they may have been more concerned about other things......

Believe me, I've tried to trace Anna all over the place. Apart from the little information I've posted, I've been unable to find her!

 

[zwiebel]

It looks like they even served squab on the boats that transported people like Alex from Germany to America. I doubt he had any involvement with Anna and her squab business though. His interview contradicting some of Anna's tall tales about her son and their marriage speaks volumes about his attitude to me.

http://menus.nypl.org/menus/27595

http://menus.nypl.org/menus/14485

 

[zwiebel]

Believe me, I've tried to trace Anna all over the place. Apart from the little information I've posted, I've been unable to find her!

I just don't know how she did it, especially after becoming so high-profile. All I can think of is she changed names. I think it's entirely possible she already had something to hide before she left England. Maybe even before she left Russia?

 

[zwiebel]

Pink Panther, it's a bit conspiracy theory-ish, but do you think there is any chance Anna contributed her Russian knowledge/skills during the war years, and was allowed to 'stay under the radar' in exchange?

 

[zwiebel]

Still no answer to my question on the servant/retainers thread on the Russian Royal forums. I don't think that thread is very popular. Frustrating, because I am sure they could tell me where to look for more info about Anna. It's only the second forum I ever joined in my life and I've been ignored! Maybe I'll post on another thread.

Found this thread though. Post number 106. A Dimitry Vladimirovich Shishkoff married a countess in 84. Could this possibly be a descendant of Anna's father?

http://forum.alexanderpalace.org/index.php?topic=363.msg322160#msg322160

 

[Marilynilpa]

I wish I had started a timeline now, it makes it so much easier to look things up and remember them. Do we know if William came home before the trash collectors were refused entry, or afterwards? Even the most trusting person would have their suspicions raised if they came home to find their wife missing and the housekeeper forbidding entry to the basement.

Really, if the way we think this might have played out is correct, how horrific for Roy. Even if he wasn't aware or made to be involved in anything at the time, being questioned by police and just hearing the rumours would be enough to give a child nightmares.

In all the best stories of course, people leave confession notes on their deathbed explaining everything. Doesn't look like it happened here though. All three people who might possibly have known something are dead. Even the Russians William met will be too. Although if they were involved, they might have confided in others. So there is still a tiny chance there is someone out there with information.

BBM

He came home afterwards on the train from NYC. He waited there for Alice, then took a cab home. He arrived home around 7:40 p.m. and called LE around 8:00 p.m.

 

[Marilynilpa]

Okay, this info is from my handwritten notes so I need to find the document to back it up, but thought you'd be interested.

In 1923, 260 Russians of the Czar's former aristocracy were ordered deported because the immigration quota was exhausted. When Anna arrived on the Aquitania on 3/11/24, she was ordered deported because the immigration quota was exhausted. This might indicate Anna really was part of Russian aristocracy.

Although Roy's widow, Allyn, told me Anna's father was the overseer of the Czar's land - would that be considered aristocracy??

 

[Pink Panther]

I just don't know how she did it, especially after becoming so high-profile. All I can think of is she changed names. I think it's entirely possible she already had something to hide before she left England. Maybe even before she left Russia?

I have thought the same thing and wouldn't be the least bit surprised if it were so...

 

[Pink Panther]

For those who are interested in Anna, Roy's widow told me she died in 1984 in California. I haven't looked for her death announcement, and I don't have a specific date.

I've been looking and will continue to look but so far, I have been unable to find a death certificate/notice for her. I found one that could be her but the death location was listed as Dallas, Texas. She also used the name Anne Parsons and there were/are quite a few Anne Parsons...