Match! NY - Caledonia, WhtFem 1UFNY, 13-19, Turquoise Necklace, Nov'79 *Tammy Alexander*

[Reannan]

Updates on what? They are satisfied it's not Tina Kemp, but if they are wrong, there will be a CODIS hit when Tina's profile is put into CODIS. And I don't know who the California girl is that they were looking at.

Thanks Carlk.... moving on from Tina. I really would love to know who the California girl is that is a possible ID.

 

[webrocket]

I think I've seen this discussed on other threads how back in the old days teenagers who might have been runaways were removed from some LE files upon turning 18. if that happened here, then we are missing source data for missing persons.

my best guess is that she was traveling with a trucker (family or not) and had been in say Florida not too long before going up to NY state (the tan lines). if it was an inside job (meaning killed by family) that would explain why she was not reported.

very tragic.

 

[CarlK90245]

I think I've seen this discussed on other threads how back in the old days teenagers who might have been runaways were removed from some LE files upon turning 18. if that happened here, then we are missing source data for missing persons.

my best guess is that she was traveling with a trucker (family or not) and had been in say Florida not too long before going up to NY state (the tan lines). if it was an inside job (meaning killed by family) that would explain why she was not reported.

very tragic.

The logistics of her route are a little confusing.

A truckdriver told authorities that he had seen her prior to her death trying to hitch a ride to Boston. But it doesn't say where the trucker saw her. A waitress from a diner in Lima, New York remembered seeing the girl the night before the murder.

However, Caledonia NY would not be along a logical North/South route from Florida to Boston. So of the four possible locations mentioned based on the pollen in her pocket lining (i.e., Florida, Arizona, California, or Mexico), I was thinking Florida was her least likely origin.

But the route from Lima to Caledonia runs Northwest, so although that is consistent with a Florida source, it is not consistent with a Boston Destination.

There is also the possible Christopher Wilder connection. Wilder was a racing enthusiast, and authorities speculated that this might have something to do with her racing style jacket. Wilder was living in Florida, but if she was seen trying to hitch a ride somewhere along the way, she probably didn't ride with Wilder from Florida to Caledonia.

 

[webrocket]

I should have commented on just how sick it is that what, 60 serial killers wanted to take responsibility for this poor girl's murder?

 

[ThePhantom]

Exactly, Webrocket. My other concern is -- are more serial killers being born or created through circumstances or --is the old "they've always been around" true? What about killers like Loughner -- were there always this many mentally disturbed souls walking around posing a risk to colleges, high schools, politicians, the man on the street? Further digressing, could it be possible that the man who murdered Morgan H. and raped the woman in Fairfax, VA have done the same to others, whose DNA evidence has not yet been entered into the "system" due to back logs?

 

[carbuff]

Do we have an address or more precise location for where she was found in Caledonia, or where the diner is in Lima?

 

[CarlK90245]

Do we have an address or more precise location for where she was found in Caledonia, or where the diner is in Lima?

The location where she was found is described as "20 feet off the south side of Route 20, about 1/2 mile from the Route 5 intersection".

Here's a Google Earth Street view of the road on which she was found.
US-20 W/Telephone Rd to US-20 W/Telephone Rd - Google Maps

And here's the overhead view. Point B (approximate location of body) is 1/2 mile west of point A (Intersection of Rte 20 and Rte5):

US-20 W/Telephone Rd to US-20 W/Telephone Rd - Google Maps

 

[carbuff]

Thank you!

Routes 20 and 5 are main routes in that part of the state. Route 20 is popular with people who want to avoid the NY Thruway with its very high tolls, especially regional trucks. Routes 15 and 15A were the major routes to the southern tier and into Pennsylvania before I-390 (Genesee Expressway) was built; I need to do some research to find out if it was there. Basically, though, if she came from the west on I-80 and got a ride north from there to get to I-90 (an obvious way to get to Boston), she might well have wound up having dinner in Lima.

If she got a ride from there with somebody heading east, they would still have driven slightly west to get onto I-390, assuming it was there by then. Telephone Road is pretty much the first place out of town where you could dispose of somebody.

This shows where the body was found relative to downtown Lima: Lima to Telephone Road

 

[annemc2]

Was she alone at the diner? Or did she have company? I don't recall ever seeing this info (but I probably just missed it).

 

[CarlK90245]

Was she alone at the diner? Or did she have company? I don't recall ever seeing this info (but I probably just missed it).

The waitress didn't remember many details. Only that she recalled seeing her at the diner the night before she was found.

See Post #1 of this thread for the details:
Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY NY - Caledonia - WhtFem Teen Gunshot Victim Found in Cornfield - Nov. 1979

 

[reasypeasy]

Tanya Irene Farrington
Missing since March 29, 1979 from Crows Nest, New South Wales, Australia
http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2153dfnsw.html

A remote possibility. If this lass had gone missing in the USA rather than Australia I would say the physical similarities (height, age, hair texture, some aspects of her face) would make her a strong possibility. As it is she's worth mentioning in case further details about either are discovered.

 

[carbuff]

From the description in Doenet: "The two serial killers claimed they were together when they killed the girl in the cornfield. Toole said he picked up the girl in a park near Philadelphia and traveled with her for a while before he took her out in the cornfield off Route 20 and shot her twice."

This confession could have something to it. Lima NY is directly up Route 15 from Philadelphia -- only about a 6-8 hour drive. And if she came through Philadelphia, she could have been almost anywhere previously -- Florida being possibly the most likely.

I wonder if there's evidence that makes them dismiss Lucas and Toole?

p.s. what's up with googlemaps? I try to post a link to the map, and it displays a badly-cropped image of the map.

 

[webrocket]

From the description in Doenet: "The two serial killers claimed they were together when they killed the girl in the cornfield. Toole said he picked up the girl in a park near Philadelphia and traveled with her for a while before he took her out in the cornfield off Route 20 and shot her twice."

This confession could have something to it. Lima NY is directly up Route 15 from Philadelphia -- only about a 6-8 hour drive. And if she came through Philadelphia, she could have been almost anywhere previously -- Florida being possibly the most likely.

I wonder if there's evidence that makes them dismiss Lucas and Toole?

the fact that 60 series killers have claimed to have murdered this young woman makes any confession highly suspect. for there to be any credibility, the killer would have to have given facts unknown to the public at large, otherwise any Tom, Dick or Harry could read about it and claim bragging rights. for all I know these degenerates cut out articles about murders and they give them ideas on their next victims. (this is truly twisted, but these men are all sociopaths)

I don't know at what point LE interviewed these two and how much info was out there. I would think if they actually had info that would be peculiar to the true killer, then they would have been charged.

 

[carbuff]

the fact that 60 series killers have claimed to have murdered this young woman makes any confession highly suspect. for there to be any credibility, the killer would have to have given facts unknown to the public at large, otherwise any Tom, Dick or Harry could read about it and claim bragging rights. for all I know these degenerates cut out articles about murders and they give them ideas on their next victims. (this is truly twisted, but these men are all sociopaths)

I don't know at what point LE interviewed these two and how much info was out there. I would think if they actually had info that would be peculiar to the true killer, then they would have been charged.

Yeah, I meant, I wonder whether they have a specific reason to doubt this particular confession, or if it was just general lack of confirmation.

 

[CarlK90245]

the fact that 60 series killers have claimed to have murdered this young woman makes any confession highly suspect.

Yeah, I meant, I wonder whether they have a specific reason to doubt this particular confession, or if it was just general lack of confirmation.

Lucas confessed to hundreds of murders that he couldn't have committed. He loved the attention that a confession would give him. I don't know if O'Toole had the same habit of falsly confessing to crimes. It would be interesting to know if their "confessions" were given independently of one another (i.e., whether their details corresponded to one another without them having been together in the same interrogation room).

 

[Richard]

There is a long thread on Cali Doe here in Websleuths, and in it I suggested a possible match between her and Monica. Unfortunately, NY LE could not make contact with Mexican authorities, even through the FBI, so no comparison could be made.

Note that Monica's height would be aproximately 5 feet 2 inches. She had brown eyes and wavy, chestnut brown hair. There used to be a photo of her on the origional site and she did resemble the Cali sketches somewhat.

Here is the Doenetwork's description (photos at link) of Cali.

-------------------------

Unidentified White Female

Located on November 9, 1979 in Caledonia, Livingston County, New York.
Estimated Date of Death is November 8, 1979
Died as a result of severe brain hemorrhage caused by a gunshot wound to the head.

Vital Statistics

Estimated age: 13 - 19 years old. Her estimated date of birth is 1958-1967.

Approximate Height and Weight: 5'3; 120 lbs.

Distinguishing Characteristics: She had curly brown, shoulder length hair which had been frosted about four months before her death. The frosted hair was in the process of growing out. She had brown eyes. She was tanned and had visible bikini lines. She had no distinguishing marks. The victim had had no broken bones that would have been in a hospital's records. It didn't look as though she had received much medical attention of any kind.

Clothing: She was wearing a a boy's multi-plaid, button-down shirt, tan corduroy pants, blue knee socks, light blue panties; white exquisite bra; brown lace up, ripple-sole shoes and a red nylon-lined man's windbreaker with black stripes down the arms, marked with the inside label Auto Sports Products, Inc..

Dentals: Available. She has some serious decay and tooth #14 was decayed to the extent that only three roots of the tooth were left. She had not had any dental care.

Fingerprints: Available. Her fingerprints were sent to FBI headquarters, but her prints weren't on file.

DNA: Available in CODIS

Source:

The Doe Network: Case File 1UFNY

LINK:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/1ufny.html

 

[q64ceo]

Let bring this back up.

Any fresh ideas?

 

[reasypeasy]

She is facially similar in some ways to Kimberly Alice King missing September 16 1979 from Warren, Michigan. Whether one of her incisors could be interpreted as peg-shaped as per Kimberly's description is a major stumbling block. One of Kimberly's photos seems to indicate lightened hair.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/96dfmi.html

 

[MargotKidder]

Yes, I think that the Jane Doe resembles Mindy Creech missing from Indiana on 4 Sep 1979. Mindy's eyes are brown, while Jane Doe's are Blue. I think the nose is negotiable, though. People have argued about it before. But they obviously did pictures of the Jane Doe with a different sort of nose. I wonder why? Mindy was white, but was hispanic/latino ethnicity. From her profile on the Doe Network, her mother told her remaining children that her daughter had been found deceased in New Jersey, when in fact, she had not. Do you think that they ever looked at her? Because of the different color of the eyes, I do not think they would be a match, but they sure do resemble one another alot. Please discuss, even rip it apart, but at least it will keep the thread moving for this little girl.

 

[chaddylex]

She is facially similar in some ways to Kimberly Alice King missing September 16 1979 from Warren, Michigan. Whether one of her incisors could be interpreted as peg-shaped as per Kimberly's description is a major stumbling block. One of Kimberly's photos seems to indicate lightened hair.

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/96dfmi.html

It also says that Kimberly has a gap between her two front teeth, and I don't think Caledonia Jane Doe Does according to her profile.

But then again, she hasn't been identified yet... Who is she?