GUILTY NY - DM, 6, & FM, 12, Huevelton, 13 August 2014 - #1

[blue22]

Well said. I don't think we (who aren't Amish) are qualified to say in here what they would or wouldn't do based on their religious beliefs. Remember, too...pacifism does not necessarily equate to passivity concerning evil--they were quick to notify authorities when their children went missing.

Also, the State will pursue a crime committed against these girls, regardless of family's willingness to openly testify. There are many ways to handle crimes against children that will afford them the privacy they deserve. I think we probably need to remember that media are throwing around terms like "sexual assault" and "abuse" without knowing at this point what precisely happened--those terms encompass a large range of behaviors. As far as I know, sexual assault can be as simple as kissing or touching someone who doesn't want that overture (correct me if I'm wrong here, legal people). So it's probably wise not to try to speculate on details, here. That the girls (one only 7 years old) were checked out at the hospital and released in "fine" condition is all the reassurance I need.

I am not speculating about the investigation. I'm not claiming to know anything abut this investigation. I was saying that we shouldn't assume the community wouldn't accept them. That's for ANY victim of sexual abuse. It's a general statement. I am only saying in MY experience with Amish people, they would not do that...and they are very aware of this situation. So, in MY experience we should not assume that these girls will be unaccepted, if they were the victims of sexual abuse. I am not saying anyone is qualified. I am saying we shouldn't assume, because we are NOT qualified.

 

[Mountaingazer]

What time zone are you in? If you're in the west coast, could it have been edited out by then?

I am east coast. I think it might have been a different channel. The story was covered by the male cohost, the female didn't say anything and she was wearing a peach colored top.

did you possibly just mishear the words in your pre coffee state? I know I need a healthy dose before the world makes sense in the morning lol. Because they were arrested for kidnapping with the intent to sexually or physically harm them, just no charges that they went through with it.

 

[raeann]

I wonder if the family asked LE to only pursue kidnapping. Not wanting to go through any sexual abuse routes, per their culture (it may make it very difficult for the girls to stay accepted) Also the girls may not have been allowed to have a full physical at the hospital, so they may not know exactly what took place with them. Sweet girls just living a peaceful life....such monsters out there

Interesting on SH's Fb on May 16 he posts a saying about you are responsible for everything you do...no one else (paraphrased)

http://amishamerica.com/do-amish-visit-doctors/

BBM

There is nothing in the Amish belief that would preclude the provision of FULL and APPROPRIATE medical care to their children. Perhaps we should all respectfully refrain from making assumptions or statements that may accuse the parents of denying their children medical care, as that is in no way a part of Amish culture. The source below may be helpful.....


quote from source:


"The Amish relationship with medical professionals"

Amish generally appreciate doctors whom they can trust and who show an understanding of Amish culture and belief. Hurst and McConnell report that medical practitioners who deal with Amish report that they are generally good patients, though a knowledge of Amish ways, and particularly the Pennsylvania German language, can help in the doctor-patient relationship. Doctors with an Amish background may be particularly valued by Amish.

Doctors may make home visits in Amish communities, as in the case of the well known doctor Elton Lehman, described in the book House Calls and Hitching Posts. Lehman gained the trust of his patients and served the Amish community in Wayne and Holmes counties for over three decades, delivering babies and caring for injured and sick Amish people. Other facilities catering to an Amish clientele have made accommodations accordingly. The Amish House of Pomerene Hospital in Millersburg provides a Plain environment for Amish visitors.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I noticed in the articles I've read it mentions they were barefoot when they arrived at house after being dropped off on the road. I'm wondering if they were barefoot when they were abducted as well? I know the Mennonite bake shop we go to is Old Order and every time we've been there the men, women, boys and girls are always barefoot no matter what they're doing. Just wondering since I've read they're of the more strict order if being barefoot was common for them as well.

 

[PoirotryInMotion]

I am not speculating about the investigation. I'm not claiming to know anything abut this investigation. I was saying that we shouldn't assume the community wouldn't accept them. That's for ANY victim of sexual abuse. It's a general statement. I am only saying in MY experience with Amish people, they would not do that...and they are very aware of this situation. So, in MY experience we should not assume that these girls will be unaccepted, if they were the victims of sexual abuse. I am not saying anyone is qualified. I am saying we shouldn't assume, because we are NOT qualified.

blue22, I was echoing your sentiments--in response to another poster. No problem with your post at all! It was "well said."

 

[trigger]

If I were LE or the mom of his bio kids, I'd be marching them to a psyche yesterday !

I sure hope so. I cant even imagine what his ex is thinking. And what about his neighbors children? I bet everyone at his job and hers are freaking out right now. You cannot trust anyone.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I am east coast. I think it might have been a different channel. The story was covered by the male cohost, the female didn't say anything and she was wearing a peach colored top.

did you possibly just mishear the words in your pre coffee state? I know I need a healthy dose before the world makes sense in the morning lol. Because they were arrested for kidnapping with the intent to sexually or physically harm them, just no charges that they went through with it.

"the district attorney is telling us this morning that the girls were sexually assaulted"

http://www.today.com/id/49063771/#55879239 (right at the beginning of the clip when the anchor goes live to the reporter on scene)

 

[Inthedetails]

Wouldn't photographing a semi-clothed or naked person against her will be considered assault? Or forcing someone to watch or witness something of a sexual nature? I'm trying to be sensitive with this. Couldn't someone be assaulted without necessarily being physically harmed?

JMO.

 

[trigger]

Because his income is too high to qualify for a public defender. Read that yesterday, though don't have the link handy.

Found the article...

http://www.watertowndailytimes.com/article/20140816/NEWS05/140819120

 

[blue22]

I noticed in the articles I've read it mentions they were barefoot when they arrived at house after being dropped off on the road. I'm wondering if they were barefoot when they were abducted as well? I know the Mennonite bake shop we go to is Old Order and every time we've been there the men, women, boys and girls are always barefoot no matter what they're doing. Just wondering since I've read they're of the more strict order if being barefoot was common for them as well.

From what I was told (and I don't claim every Amish community is the same as the one here) children are barefoot whenever the weather will allow. Children are mostly seen barefoot in nice weather, here.

 

[blue22]

blue22, I was echoing your sentiments--in response to another poster. No problem with your post at all! It was "well said."

I was just jumping off your post to clarify mine . I realized in my first comment, I perhaps made myself seem more informed and a source of information. Your post was just handy at the bottom...lol!

 

[Ontario Mom]

Wouldn't photographing a semi-clothed or naked person against her will be considered assault? Or forcing someone to watch or witness something of a sexual nature? I'm trying to be sensitive with this. Couldn't someone be assaulted without necessarily being physically harmed?

JMO.

I think the criteria for SA is slightly different pretty much everywhere you go. In one state or province it may have to include this or that, where in another it can also include that other thing or this other thing - if that makes sense. I know in some cases of SA I've read about it was an act of being groped/touched, without consent. That alone can qualify as SA in some places but I don't know if it's across the boards, all states/provinces. Without known what the actual charges are of this twisted couple, it's impossible to know what did or didn't happen but here's a good place to start I think http://www.slc.edu/offices-services/security/assault/Penal_Law.html

 

[TTF14]

How can someone that works with people (Do no harm!), and someone who has a psych major but works with animals (A vulnerable group) then choose to prey on the vulnerable and harm them???? This is one @*#$ world we live in!!! Too much evil exists.

Not to mention that one of them is a parent!!! Thankfully that female piece of trash won't be able to procreate during her life behind bars.

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

If the woman laid a hand on them and still says it's all the man's fault........... NO!
It won't work lady.

And...I wonder if there is incriminating evidence on the computers/technology for BOTH of them...

:stormingmad:

 

[Ontario Mom]

"He declined to provide further details about how the girls were victimized or what went into the plot to kidnap them. But he said more charges are possible against the couple, Stephen Howells II, 39, and Nicole Vaisey, 25, of Hermon, in addition to the two counts of first-degree kidnapping they already have been charged with. The FBI is assisting in the investigation of the crime, he said.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....sh_girls_carefully_plotted_crime_sheriff.html

I hope they charge them with everything they can come up with. I suspect the search of their home and their computers will have a lot to do with that. CREEPS! Ugh.

 

[gogrannypop]

The women and kids are usually barefoot except on Sundays when they have church. moo My observation.

 

[TTF14]

I am east coast. I think it might have been a different channel. The story was covered by the male cohost, the female didn't say anything and she was wearing a peach colored top.

did you possibly just mishear the words in your pre coffee state? I know I need a healthy dose before the world makes sense in the morning lol. Because they were arrested for kidnapping with the intent to sexually or physically harm them, just no charges that they went through with it.

haha...do not ever ask me to be an EYE witness, but I am sure that whatever channel I was watching, the anchor at the desk said it (not someone in the field like on the Today show). And she did not say "according to the prosecutor" either, which is why I remembered it. I remember thinking, "wow, hope she isn't speaking too soon..." because I had just read, on the internet, about the "intent to sexually or physically harm." Now it is bugging me and I wish my television had a "history" folder I could view!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

On the DM article (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...stall-holding-captive-property-overnight.html)

There is a comment from someone named Gail who says (even though I have not read this elsewhere, so it's not verifiable at this time) that they did call the police and they had a police escort taking the girls home:

Gail, Somewhere in the mists of time, 5 hours ago

This story is missing much and there are some errors. 1) The girls live in Heuvelton, in the town of Oswegachie. 2)The distance is to Richville is 13 miles, not 20. 3) The Stinson's did phone the police then fed those poor hungry girls. The girls were taken home by the Stinson's with a police escort. I assume it is because the girls felt safest with the couple who were kind. These are Amish and they rarely deal with police, plus they knew the Stinson's from their farmstand. This is a very rural area, all dairy and corn farms. 4) The girls are safe. Most of us up here did not expect this happy ending. We don't have this kind of crime happen often. It is an innocent area almost like a place out of time. Think Norman Rockwell. We are shocked and dismayed this happened at all. Weu are grateful the girls are safe, but things are different now and that is a damn shame.

I had actually thought of this...

That the Stin*sons called LE while they were feeding and/or taking the girls home...

JMO

 

[gogrannypop]

http://northcountrynow.com/news/she...g-may-face-federal-charges-arrest-prevented-a

Sheriff says Hermon couple charged in Amish kidnapping may face federal charges, arrest prevented abuse

 

[Inthedetails]

"He declined to provide further details about how the girls were victimized or what went into the plot to kidnap them. But he said more charges are possible against the couple, Stephen Howells II, 39, and Nicole Vaisey, 25, of Hermon, in addition to the two counts of first-degree kidnapping they already have been charged with. The FBI is assisting in the investigation of the crime, he said.

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index....sh_girls_carefully_plotted_crime_sheriff.html

I hope they charge them with everything they can come up with. I suspect the search of their home and their computers will have a lot to do with that. CREEPS! Ugh.

Another oddity in this odd case is that LE say the couple cooperated during the interview. Did they expect to be released? Or want to be arrested?