NY - Female passenger died after being set on fire by man on subway - NYC - December 22, 2024

  • #101
I hope that a relative or friend comes forward at some point to report her missing or to inquire about this case, wondering if it could be their loved one. I am sure they are questioning area homeless service agencies and reviewing video cameras, and that the medical examiner's office is making every effort to identify significant details, including her DNA if she remains unidentified over a long period of time.

Below is an article on how a special unit within the Medical Examiner's office in NYC tries to identify remains of individuals who are unclaimed or unidentified. They sound like a very caring, respectful and talented group of individuals.

 
  • #102
All the train cars have video, as well as all the platforms.

I’ve been puzzled myself as to why there’s been no at least basic description of her.

If she were asleep with her head down, or wearing a mask, or anything else that would obscure her face prior to the fire, that may be an issue——except that there should also be video from the train platform before she got on the train.

I’ve also not heard that someone is missing….usually when NYPD is alerted to a missing person, we get notifications on Notify NYC or another emergency site.

It’s possible, if she lived on the subway, that no one has in fact called about a missing wife, or mother, friend, sister, daughter etc.
I thought there was a comment about her (the victim) being asleep (or “motionless”) wrapped in a blanket on the floor?
 
  • #103
Weirdly enough the perpetrator can be seen approaching her and seeming to try and put the fire out with his jumper. I don't think he's trying to fan the flames but he stands a few metres away and waves his hoodie or something at her.

probably just pretending to help for any witnesses
 
  • #104
My condolences to the victim and her loved ones. This horrible crime should have never occurred and I hope the suspect is held accountable under the full extent of the law. He had no right to her life, person or safety or to cause the large amount of pain and harm she suffered.

It saddens me even to learn that based on the presence of a walker, the victim may have limited mobility, which may have further hindered her ability to get help or to move as she got off the ground and attempted to exit the subway car.
If someone was already on fire to the point of being "engulfed," I don't imagine there's much that your average bystander could do without also becoming a victim. LE were alerted quickly and attempted to respond appropriately with training and equipment, I don't really see the need to make this an issue about bystanders not doing something.
I agree.

I think too it might be that it wasn’t that nearby bystanders didn’t want to help, but perhaps didn’t know how?

For example, it was mentioned in an article posted by CNN, that at the time the victim was tragically attacked, there was numerous items of clothing and liquor bottles around her. Unfortunately, both the clothing and any remaining alcohol inside the bottles could have accelerated the fire and caused the clothing she was wearing on her person to quickly ignite. It is highly recommended that a fire extinguisher, and not water, be used to smother and put out flames in which alcohol may have been used as an accelerant. Of course, unlike when in their own car or truck, many, if not most, members of the public do not carry fire extinguishers on their person, especially not when taking public transportation. Even for those whose first thoughts were towards using a fire extinguisher, they may not have known where to find one on the bus or train they are riding on. That plus the initial shock, fear and disbelief of the horror they are witnessing before them may understandably cause many witnesses to freeze or turn and run to find someone who can help as they themselves are overwhelmed and unsure of what exactly is going on, only that one person, and possibly more, is in danger and has been terribly hurt.

It did seem like police and the conductors acted as quickly as possible in attempt to save that poor woman’s life and that upon learning that the victim’s life has been lost and that her murderer had escaped from the crime scene, young members of the public fortunately acted swiftly, and thereby helped make sure the perp was caught and apprehended for what he had done, by alerting LE where and when exactly they themselves had seen the alleged killer.

JMT/JMO



 
  • #105
Moo...I feel sad that a person with a walker is without safe shelter...moo
 
  • #106
Can our clothes and blankets really become entirely engulfed in flames that fast, especially when using a little lighter? That is frightening, if true. Maybe an accelerant was used but LE doesn't want to release that info at this time?
 
  • #107
probably just pretending to help for any witnesses
He doesn't look right to me. I think he is ill probably, sane but I'll.
 
  • #108
Can our clothes and blankets really become entirely engulfed in flames that fast, especially when using a little lighter? That is frightening, if true. Maybe an accelerant was used but LE doesn't want to release that info at this time?
I'm guessing accelerant was used but polyester clothing is very flammable indeed.
 
  • #109
Who does this to another human being? Who is so thoughtless to take a life now & in such a ruthless manner? This is just sick. Man, it’s the freaking holidays. So sorry for anyone who has to see, live around or in fear of something like this.
 
  • #110
Yes, it would have been a good thing if there had been someone that could have SAFELY restrained him beforehand.
Whether restraint was "safe" or deadly, it could have saved the woman's life.
But that ship has pretty much sailed today. We've all learned our lesson--turn and walk away rather than put our freedom on the line to protect victims of the criminally insane.
 
  • #111
Can our clothes and blankets really become entirely engulfed in flames that fast, especially when using a little lighter? That is frightening, if true. Maybe an accelerant was used but LE doesn't want to release that info at this time?
BBM

I read that there were liquor bottles, or a liquor bottle, near the woman, so I'm guessing he might have dumped some of that on her, and it served as an accelerant. MOO
 
  • #112
probably just pretending to help for any witnesses
I agree, maybe it was his idea of pretending to put out the flame. But it definitely would not been helpful in putting out the flame, it was only going to fan the flame.
 
  • #113
I thought there was a comment about her (the victim) being asleep (or “motionless”) wrapped in a blanket on the floor?
She was definitely on the bench, not the floor, per the photo of inside the train car.
 
  • #114
I absolutely will not stop to help anyone, due to the possibility of being charged with manslaughter. People judge and find guilt with anyone who attempts to keep another person safe. Why bother? just turn you head and walk on by. JMO

Do you have a link that trying to put out a flaming person you’ve come across is grounds for arrest for any laws much less manslaughter?

I’d bother because I’m a principled human being but everyday for hundreds of years folks can’t be bothered. Look at the indigenous people massacres folks turned their head and walked on; nothing new.

Turn head and walk on personal choice but no brownie points for conflating it dramatically with a completely different circumstances case.


All imo
 
  • #115
The first thought that popped into my head. WHY would anyone risk helping when they could be charged with a crime.

What crime?

Link to NYC law stating those grounds of a ordinary passerby aiding a person fully involved in flames could be charged with a crime?

Or whatever law you have based that statement posted as fact, please?


All imo
 
  • #116
I absolutely will not stop to help anyone, due to the possibility of being charged with manslaughter. People judge and find guilt with anyone who attempts to keep another person safe. Why bother? just turn you head and walk on by. JMO
Yeah, that's sad, but I've heard a lot of similar sentiments. Even on this thread, someone mentioned that it would have been okay to stop the killer before he lit the woman on fire as long as it was done SAFELY. In other words, bend over backward not to harm the killer because if you inadvertently do--it's a prison for you, dude.

So, no one wants to take a chance anymore. No one wants to step between the criminally insane and their innocent victims.

Because no good deed ever goes unpunished. :(
 
  • #117
If ones actions even if well intentioned are actually more damaging toward anyone in any situation then yes there is the potential for legal action afterwards. Say if you see someone fall over and go to pick them up and in the process break one of their bones then yes you can get screwed. Say you drop them after trying to pick them up and that hurts them or damages them then yes your liable.
 
  • #118
Rant incoming

Do we know if there were even witnesses to this crime occuring? I havent seen any bystander footage from anyone in that subway car.

Comparing this to the Penny case is apples to oranges.

The only footage I've seen of the fire was taken from outside of the subway car.

Imo the reason why no one intervened is not because of the Penny case. It was because they didn't want to run into a burning subway car.
 
  • #119
There was nobody else inside the train car at the time of the attack. But it is caught on the surveillance video.

"Investigators initially suspected the fire was accidental after finding liquor bottles near the victim, sources said. After reviewing surveillance footage from the subway car, police observed the suspect sitting across from the sleeping victim — with only the two of them in the car. The suspect then got up and ignited her clothes and the blanket she was using."
 
  • #120
There was nobody else inside the train car at the time of the attack. But it is caught on the surveillance video.
Thank you for sharing a link that confirms that
 

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