NY - Female passenger died after being set on fire by man on subway - NYC - December 22, 2024

[jjenny]

If ones actions even if well intentioned are actually more damaging toward anyone in any situation then yes there is the potential for legal action afterwards. Say if you see someone fall over and go to pick them up and in the process break one of their bones then yes you can get screwed. Say you drop them after trying to pick them up and that hurts them or damages them then yes your liable.

In this particular case it could also be dangerous to any good Samaritan to try to put out the fire without a fire extinguisher, because they themselves could be caught on fire if they attempt to stop it with their clothing.

 

[jjenny]

Can our clothes and blankets really become entirely engulfed in flames that fast, especially when using a little lighter? That is frightening, if true. Maybe an accelerant was used but LE doesn't want to release that info at this time?

Maybe the suspect didn't douse her, but since there were alcohol bottles in the vicinity, her clothing could have had some alcohol on them that spilled on her, if she was drinking it? Also, per cnn article, she was wearing multiple layers of clothing.

 

[GRT]

Rant incoming

Do we know if there were even witnesses to this crime occuring? I havent seen any bystander footage from anyone in that subway car.

Comparing this to the Penny case is apples to oranges.

The only footage I've seen of the fire was taken from outside of the subway car.

Imo the reason why no one intervened is not because of the Penny case. It was because they didn't want to run into a burning subway car.

You could be right. It could be that no one was there to intervene.

But it's still a fair comparison because what happened to DP was a shot across the bow. Whether or not it was a factor in this specific incidence, it's having a societal effect. Nothing happens in a vacuum.

I'd like to get more information on the victim. Nothing I've read so far even hints at age, living status, race, etc.

 

[GRT]

The perp seems short - but what kind of outfit is he wearing? Look how the trousers are pooling around his feet.

 

[Jade]

If ones actions even if well intentioned are actually more damaging toward anyone in any situation then yes there is the potential for legal action afterwards. Say if you see someone fall over and go to pick them up and in the process break one of their bones then yes you can get screwed. Say you drop them after trying to pick them up and that hurts them or damages them then yes your liable.

Links to being arrested in NYC for manslaughter as is being stated?

Links to “yes you are liable” but the discussion is for arrest as has been stated.

The circumstances make a difference in liability.

Interference in the nonfatal injuries of a conscious person with a minor injury fall is no comparison to a life saving measure attempted in an emergency.

Attempts to put out a person in a fully involved fire engulfing their body is not a comparison to the example.

There’s confusion maybe because there is a difference between a helpful passerby and a person who has been trained and should know better but botches it instead.


All imo

 

[Baby baby Jane]

The perp seems short - but what kind of outfit is he wearing? Look how the trousers are pooling around his feet.

Took his clothing in as evidence. To preserve evidence, the clothes wearing in the video or any other evidence on those clothes to tie him to his crime.

 

[Jade]

DBM off topic

 

[iamshadow21]

The perp seems short - but what kind of outfit is he wearing? Look how the trousers are pooling around his feet.

Looks like the kind of jumpsuit used at crime scenes. It's way too big for him, he's very petite (but likely within norms for a Central American), but if they have him in a turtle suit or bullet proof vest underneath, the extra size would be needed.

MOO

 

[MAHBOOBOO]

Yeah, it's what Baby Baby Jane said. That's a Tyvek suit. It's non permeable so it can be used to keep particulates away from or apparently on clothing. They're most often used for painting or industrial/chemical/lab work. They're cheaper than chemical suits and they're also quite warm.

 

[Sweeper2000]

Links to being arrested in NYC for manslaughter as is being stated?

Links to “yes you are liable” but the discussion is for arrest as has been stated.

The circumstances make a difference in liability.

Interference in the nonfatal injuries of a conscious person with a minor injury fall is no comparison to a life saving measure attempted in an emergency.

Attempts to put out a person in a fully involved fire engulfing their body is not a comparison to the example.

There’s confusion maybe because there is a difference between a helpful passerby and a person who has been trained and should know better but botches it instead.


All imo

Not sure about the manslaughter stuff but I think this article covers relevant situations. And in all honesty I can't say anything about someone being on fire and someone trying to put them out that's such a niche scenario. I'm also led to believe that all emergency personnel are not obligated to intervene in any situation, they do indeed have a choice.

Personal Injury Law Guide: What You Need To Know

When you suffer harm due to the action (or inaction) of another, it’s only natural for you to want it fixed in some way. In fact, one of the core purposes of our legal system is to give people a means to put harms to right. Unfortunately, some people delay or even avoid ever filing a legal claim bec

www.forbes.com

 

[GRT]

Links to being arrested in NYC for manslaughter as is being stated?

Links to “yes you are liable” but the discussion is for arrest as has been stated.

The circumstances make a difference in liability.

Interference in the nonfatal injuries of a conscious person with a minor injury fall is no comparison to a life saving measure attempted in an emergency.

Attempts to put out a person in a fully involved fire engulfing their body is not a comparison to the example.

There’s confusion maybe because there is a difference between a helpful passerby and a person who has been trained and should know better but botches it instead.


All imo

I was referencing the post saying it would have been okay to restrain the killer before he lit her on fire--as long as he was restrained SAFELY.

Unfortunately, that's physically very challenging, so why even risk trying to stop him before he hurt her? Especially if you could be charged with a crime for trying.

I don't want to rehash all that stuff, but we're seeing many people say they will not risk stepping between the criminally insane and their victims for that very reason. So, we've become a more apathetic society. Actions have consequences.

From what I understand, no one was even there at this event to stop the killer. But, it's sad in a way that had someone been there and saved the woman's life so she was never set on fire, and in the process killed her assailant--we'd be calling for his head on a platter.

All MOO

 

[Jade]

Not sure about the manslaughter stuff but I think this article covers relevant situations. And in all honesty I can't say anything about someone being on fire and someone trying to put them out that's such a niche scenario. I'm also led to believe that all emergency personnel are not obligated to intervene in any situation, they do indeed have a choice.

Personal Injury Law Guide: What You Need To Know

When you suffer harm due to the action (or inaction) of another, it’s only natural for you to want it fixed in some way. In fact, one of the core purposes of our legal system is to give people a means to put harms to right. Unfortunately, some people delay or even avoid ever filing a legal claim bec

www.forbes.com

The discussion was about multiple posts that stated criminal charges, arrest, for assisting passerby but thanks anyway.

I wasn’t referencing EMS staff sorry for confusion. It’s off topic anyway.

The officer and transit staff did respond appropriately in this case. What a nightmare for them.

All imo

 

[Charlot123]

Horrible story. I hope they'll identify the victim.

- I believe she was alone in the subway car with the perpetrator and that was the reason she was attacked. The fact that she could have been homeless might have eased the situation in his mind, but the main reason was being just the two of them.

- I wonder if he is a serial arsonist or a developing arsonist. If not in NYC, then in Guatemala, there might be a similar unresolved story close to the place where he lived. Maybe the only motive was to watch her burning. It is a poorly explained condition.

He might repeat it in jail, so no access to lighters, no work at kitchen, nothing close to the source of fire.

JMO. MOO.

 

[celinesleuth]

Can our clothes and blankets really become entirely engulfed in flames that fast, especially when using a little lighter? That is frightening, if true. Maybe an accelerant was used but LE doesn't want to release that info at this time?

It wouldn't surprise me if accelerant was used, whether it be petrol or alcohol, but yeah...clothes can be very flammable. A celebrity's daughter was severely burnt a few years ago when her halloween costume caught an open flame. In the UK it caused a lot of people to think very hard about the material of children's clothes, specifically pyjamas

 

[Eloise]

It wouldn't surprise me if accelerant was used, whether it be petrol or alcohol, but yeah...clothes can be very flammable. A celebrity's daughter was severely burnt a few years ago when her halloween costume caught an open flame. In the UK it caused a lot of people to think very hard about the material of children's clothes, specifically pyjamas

Yeah, polyester, viscose etc can melt into skin too. And a lot of winter jackets now are coated in waterproofing that is quite toxic when burned (PFAS). Unless you're wearing a good old-fashioned pure wool jacket, long gone are the days when a winter coat would help put out flames, I think now it'd just make the situation worse with most artificial-fibre clothing

 

[iamshadow21]

Yeah, polyester, viscose etc can melt into skin too. And a lot of winter jackets now are coated in waterproofing that is quite toxic when burned (PFAS). Unless you're wearing a good old-fashioned pure wool jacket, long gone are the days when a winter coat would help put out flames, I think now it'd just make the situation worse with most artificial-fibre clothing

And even if you do have one, most wool coats have a synthetic satin liner.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

I was referencing the post saying it would have been okay to restrain the killer before he lit her on fire--as long as he was restrained SAFELY.

Unfortunately, that's physically very challenging, so why even risk trying to stop him before he hurt her? Especially if you could be charged with a crime for trying.

I don't want to rehash all that stuff, but we're seeing many people say they will not risk stepping between the criminally insane and their victims for that very reason. So, we've become a more apathetic society. Actions have consequences.

From what I understand, no one was even there at this event to stop the killer. But, it's sad in a way that had someone been there and saved the woman's life so she was never set on fire, and in the process killed her assailant--we'd be calling for his head on a platter.

All MOO

My post was answering the post about restraint beforehand, if there was concern about a risk, not if the assailant was literally attacking. Two completely different scenarios IMO. There wouldn't have been time to consider safety if someone had tried to intervene once the attacker made his move.

I can see how my post may have come across differently, I should have been clearer and stated that I was replying to the scenario of stopping something before it could potentially happen.

 

[I am not Sherlock H.]

An additional sad element that keeps coming to mind….. It has been getting cold on the East coast of late - if she was seeking warmth or shelter then she might have been wearing additional or heavy clothing.

I sincerely hope that measures to identify the victim can be made swiftly. MOO

 

[GRT]

My post was answering the post about restraint beforehand, if there was concern about a risk, not if the assailant was literally attacking. Two completely different scenarios IMO. There wouldn't have been time to consider safety if someone had tried to intervene once the attacker made his move.

I can see how my post may have come across differently, I should have been clearer and stated that I was replying to the scenario of stopping something before it could potentially happen.

Thank you. That helps.

In my opinion, trying to stop someone before they commit a crime is always going to be a practice in second-guessing because they haven't done anything yet.

But, if we wait to find out whether something bad will happen, we might be too late. It's a conundrum, to be sure.

We don't know if this killer telegraphed any clues beforehand or not. Maybe if someone saw him dumping alcohol over the woman (we don't know that happened) and then saw him reach into a pocket and pull out a lighter, they would have had cause to tackle him right then and there.

But we don't know if he did that or if anyone saw him do that. We know no one tackled him and stopped him, but what if someone had and, in the process, the killer hit his head on the floor and died?

I wish someone had been there to stop this evil man.

 

[jjenny]

An additional sad element that keeps coming to mind….. It has been getting cold on the East coast of late - if she was seeking warmth or shelter then she might have been wearing additional or heavy clothing.

I sincerely hope that measures to identify the victim can be made swiftly. MOO

From what I read, this particular train route is often used by homeless when it is cold. So the victim was most likely homeless which makes her even harder to identify.