GUILTY NY - Garnett Spears, 5, dies of salt poisoning, Chestnut Ridge, 23 Jan 2014

New Posts

  • #381
I think I read the NY penalty for 2nd degree murder is 25 to life (or maybe 30 to life.)

Does anyone know what "kind" of manslaughter is the alternate charge Lacey is facing? (Aggravated, involuntary, voluntary, etc.) And how many years is that potential sentence?
 
  • #382
K_Z said:
I think I read the NY penalty for 2nd degree murder is 25 to life (or maybe 30 to life.)

Does anyone know what "kind" of manslaughter is the alternate charge Lacey is facing? (Aggravated, involuntary, voluntary, etc.) And how many years is that potential sentence?
Click to expand...



Here's a terrific website: http://www.reulandlaw.com/useful-info/new-york-sentencing-chart/


and just like those "adorable" other "first timers", Casey, Jodi...........................................this defendant is a "first time criminal"

K_Z: this creature is unbelievable, she has a "jury" persona & a social persona.................I can see how she could "charm" & manipulate folks, especially if they didn't have to deal with her long-term!

IMHO, Garnett was becoming his own person, this new New York environment was giving him major socialization skills and take it from a survivor, THAT's when it really gets "dicey" and the "medical interventions" are ramped up!

Again, IMVVVHO, the world of social media is helping somewhat in "outing" some of these medical abuse cases! NOW, the legal world needs to catch-up (NO I do not mean "witch hunts" or stereotyping) & act on them BEFORE these victims reach the autopsy table or even worse, die undiagnosed/documented! But, then again, our most fragile victims don't vote or pay taxes, thus they are minimized or considered "property" by some! RANT OVER!
 
  • #383
joypath said:
Today was the first day I was able to attend......and SO glad I did! As some of you know, I've experienced the MSBP, now called what it should ALWAYS have been, medical child abuse, up close & personal. Professionally, IMHO there is NO reason for this child's death within the realm of clinical medicine & personally, this child experienced the utmost torture all while he was trying so hard to keep his "Mommy" pleased with him. The video was heart-wrenching and so told those last minutes.

Now the egg donor/incubator spent the court day with the "weepies" & sniffles, dramatic & clinging to ANYBODY available (funny tho, the female guards weren't accommodating!). She did try to engage the jury but......they were having none of that!

I believe that the jury WILL convict her & I also believe that she is sorry............................................that she got caught! Unfortunately, I can't attend tomorrow but in my heart of hearts there is NO way the defense managed to convey that Nyack Hospital staff are at fault!
Click to expand...

joypath- you were in White Plains? I wish I had known. I could have been there with you.
 
  • #384
joypath said:
Today was the first day I was able to attend......and SO glad I did! As some of you know, I've experienced the MSBP, now called what it should ALWAYS have been, medical child abuse, up close & personal. Professionally, IMHO there is NO reason for this child's death within the realm of clinical medicine & personally, this child experienced the utmost torture all while he was trying so hard to keep his "Mommy" pleased with him. The video was heart-wrenching and so told those last minutes.

Now the egg donor/incubator spent the court day with the "weepies" & sniffles, dramatic & clinging to ANYBODY available (funny tho, the female guards weren't accommodating!). She did try to engage the jury but......they were having none of that!

I believe that the jury WILL convict her & I also believe that she is sorry............................................that she got caught! Unfortunately, I can't attend tomorrow but in my heart of hearts there is NO way the defense managed to convey that Nyack Hospital staff are at fault!
Click to expand...

So much appreciative of ::websleuther: that attends. :seeya:
 
  • #385
joypath said:
Here's a terrific website: http://www.reulandlaw.com/useful-info/new-york-sentencing-chart/


and just like those "adorable" other "first timers", Casey, Jodi...........................................this defendant is a "first time criminal"

K_Z: this creature is unbelievable, she has a "jury" persona & a social persona.................I can see how she could "charm" & manipulate folks, especially if they didn't have to deal with her long-term!

IMHO, Garnett was becoming his own person, this new New York environment was giving him major socialization skills and take it from a survivor, THAT's when it really gets "dicey" and the "medical interventions" are ramped up!

Again, IMVVVHO, the world of social media is helping somewhat in "outing" some of these medical abuse cases! NOW, the legal world needs to catch-up (NO I do not mean "witch hunts" or stereotyping) & act on them BEFORE these victims reach the autopsy table or even worse, die undiagnosed/documented! But, then again, our most fragile victims don't vote or pay taxes, thus they are minimized or considered "property" by some! RANT OVER!
Click to expand...

joypath,

Thank you for chiming in again!

I appreciate your perspective, especially since you've personally been able to observe this defendant in open court. I can't even imagine what that's been like for you :hug:

I've been on pins and needles since deliberations began. I truly hope the jury gets this right. :please: The thought of her getting away with this makes me beyond ill!

Thank you for your personal efforts on behalf of Garnett. You are amazing!!!! :loveyou:

My candle remains lit, burning bright with hope for the proper outcome.

:praying:

:candle:


#JusticeForGarnett


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #386
Thank you ladies for the tweets and personal reports!

I'm still amazed that the defense didn't put on a case.

The clincher for me is the bag at the house. I am not swayed in the least by the possibility of contamination.

What did Oona Younger testify to? (The one the jury wanted read back?)
 
  • #387
Oona Younger testified the first day of trial. I'm inferring that she was asked to share her observations to counter the perception that Garnett was sickly, unable to eat normally, and "needed" his abdominal feeding tube. Her testimony came at the same time as a pediatrician who testified he raised the subject of evaluating the removal of Garnett's feeding tube at every clinic visit.

Prosecutors called several witnesses Tuesday including a former friend of Spears, an emergency room nurse and doctor, both of whom saw Garnett when he was admitted to Nyack Hospital.

Oona Younger, who met Spears at the Fellowship, testified that she saw Garnett regularly eating by mouth when the two would go to Friendly's, Starbucks and other eateries.

"He used to eat a lot of chicken, sometimes hamburgers," Younger said. "There wasn't anything he would refuse to eat."
Click to expand...

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/crime/2015/02/03/lacey-spears-murder-trial-opens/22792525/
 
  • #388
From lohud.com:
Truth, lies and Lacey Spears

Investigation by detectives in Westchester and Ramapo found that allegations had been following Spears for years - all the way back to her childhood in Decatur, Alabama. Spears was charged with second-degree murder and first-degree manslaughter in Garnett's death at Westchester Medical Center.

http://lohud.us/1q9h2bq

The above link will also take you to all five parts of "Losing Garnett the Great," a must listen if you haven't heard it yet.

Lastly, I don't remember reading this article on LS' formative years. The pattern of her behaviors, especially how she acted with other people's children at the church, just before she gave birth to Garnett, is truly saddening. I will always wonder if the cancelled "intervention" would have changed anything.

:rose:

#JusticeForGarnett

:candle:


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #389
Kimi, thank you for posting that article with all of the investigative interviews. I had missed that one, and it really fills in the missing pieces for me. Many "munchausen moms" have a long history of attention seeking and pathological lying, and it appears that Lacey's history follows the same pattern.

I especially was interested in the audio interview comments of the nurse who befriended Lacey and Garnett, and who "babysat" for him so often (days and days at a time, from her comments.) Her comments also mirror those of others who noted Garnett seemed to have no problems eating regular food when not with his mother.

I'm glad to read that the LE investigation when far back into LS's childhood, even though it sounds like not much of that was presented in trial.

IMO, she very clearly knew what she was doing when she poisoned him with salt, she planned it out, she intended to severely sicken him, and wasn't concerned about that enough to stop doing it, AND took measures to conceal what she had done. To me, that's absolutely "depraved indifference", and second degree murder. I hope the jury agrees. I'm glad prosecutors chose not to go with first degree murder, so that it's not important whether she "intended" to kill him or not.

She can have all the counseling that's available in prison, as far as I'm concerned. She should be provided with the opportunity to have plenty of time to work on her personal issues, and make sure she never has the opportunity to have another child.
 
  • #390
K_Z said:
Kimi, thank you for posting that article with all of the investigative interviews. I had missed that one, and it really fills in the missing pieces for me. Many "munchausen moms" have a long history of attention seeking and pathological lying, and it appears that Lacey's history follows the same pattern.

I especially was interested in the audio interview comments of the nurse who befriended Lacey and Garnett, and who "babysat" for him so often (days and days at a time, from her comments.) Her comments also mirror those of others who noted Garnett seemed to have no problems eating regular food when not with his mother.

I'm glad to read that the LE investigation when far back into LS's childhood, even though it sounds like not much of that was presented in trial.

IMO, she very clearly knew what she was doing when she poisoned him with salt, she planned it out, she intended to severely sicken him, and wasn't concerned about that enough to stop doing it, AND took measures to conceal what she had done. To me, that's absolutely "depraved indifference", and second degree murder. I hope the jury agrees. I'm glad prosecutors chose not to go with first degree murder, so that it's not important whether she "intended" to kill him or not.

She can have all the counseling that's available in prison, as far as I'm concerned. She should be provided with the opportunity to have plenty of time to work on her personal issues, and make sure she never has the opportunity to have another child.
Click to expand...


U/BBM

For me, that's one of they KEY points: I believe that Garnett's socialization skills & "comfort" within the new community, along with his gregarious personality became part of the ticking time bomb, as in no more or minimal attention to "moi", Lacey, magnificent mom & wonderwoman who "rescues" her child.

From experience via retrospect :tantrum: & therapy:scared: , developing a personality beyond that of "an accessory" as I believe Caylee Marie was or as a reflection/reflective, temporary focal point as Garnett was, the attention/focus/world stage was changing & LS was going to require a new actor/actress aka a "replacement child" reasonably soon. Had she had a "significant other"/sperm donor available or had been pregnant at that time, IMHO, Garnett MIGHT have been permitted to exist a bit longer, providing that he were allowing HER to retain her "amazing Mother" status & obey in silence.
My Mother was trying to get pregnant at a feverish pace once I passed the "accessory age" (this is NOT to say she stopped the medical manipulations "cold turkey", however!) but never achieved another pregnancy. She also never got caught, per se, rather chose to "discover herself" without the burden of a husband & child and left. It was never verbalized directly but her Mother never forgave ME for causing her to leave!?!

:drumroll: May I now & forever declare that I am thankful that the world has SOME knowledge of medical child abuse, may I also declare that I believe that one does NOT have to be directly related to a victim (ie. not just blood relatives but also "caregivers" of any norm) to practice this abuse!
Rant over, falling off soap box! :drumroll::drumroll:
 
  • #391
*Read tweets from bottom up for proper time sequence

Lee Higgins @LeeHiggins
· 34m 34 minutes ago
Looks like there is an hour delay today at #laceyspears trial. Jury deliberations unlikely to begin until at least 10:30 a.m.

Lee Higgins @LeeHiggins
· 37m 37 minutes ago
Looks like we have an hour delay today at #laceyspears trial. So, juror deliberations unlikely to begin until at least 10:30 a.m.

Lee Higgins @LeeHiggins
· 42m 42 minutes ago
#laceyspears sister Rebecca and father Terry are here.
Click to expand...

https://twitter.com/LeeHiggins
 
  • #392
Good Morning, WSPeeps -

Re this tweet:

Lee Higgins @LeeHiggins
· 42m 42 minutes ago
#laceyspears sister Rebecca and father Terry are here.

I wonder what Rebecca and Terry really think about Lacey... Do they think she is innocent after all that has gone on in this trial? They have been around her for a long time; they have talked with her, observed her, etc. Just an idle thought, I know, but still I'm curious.
 
  • #393
Good Morning. Hopefully Garnett will have justice today.
 
  • #394
  • #395
Lee Higgins @LeeHiggins
· 4m 4 minutes ago
Note: reread "depraved indifference" slowly. More clarification on "state of mind." Asked whether "mental illness" is part of definition.
Click to expand...

Oh my!

I think they are really struggling between 2nd degree and manslaughter. That is the second time they have had the depraved indifference definition re-read to them.

And I am SOOOO glad Munchausen By Proxy was not brought up at all. Looks like they are already struggling with the concept of mental illness. Hope the judge can tell them a mental health defense was not offered. Such an issue-- clearly Lacey is unbalanced-- but many criminals are. The issue is does she know right from wrong. And clearly she does! Now I'm worried that the prosecutors didn't emphasize THAT enough.
 
  • #396
K_Z said:
Oh my!

I think they are really struggling between 2nd degree and manslaughter. That is the second time they have had the depraved indifference definition re-read to them.

And I am SOOOO glad Munchausen By Proxy was not brought up at all. Looks like they are already struggling with the concept of mental illness. Hope the judge can tell them a mental health defense was not offered. Such an issue-- clearly Lacey is unbalanced-- but many criminals are. The issue is does she know right from wrong. And clearly she does! Now I'm worried that the prosecutors didn't emphasize THAT enough.
Click to expand...

RBBM:
:(

:gaah:

:hearno:

Say it isn't so!!!!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
  • #397
I am so worried now that the jury is deciding if she is mentally ill, and therefore "less responsible" for her actions. That isn't what they are supposed to be doing!! I wish we could have seen the whole closing argument from the prosecution. Did they cover that? Consciousness of guilt? Taking steps to cover her actions?

This whole "not guilty by reason of insanity" and other mental health defenses is muddying these issues for many juries when a mental health defense is never offered. They really do need to do a better job making clear to juries that "every" psych and emotional issue is NOT legally a mental health defense, EVEN if the person clearly has a personality disorder. Prosecutors need to educate juries that personality disorders are NOT mental health defenses, and DO NOT indicate diminished capacity or diminished responsibility. :banghead:

Such as starting their closing arguments with "Ladies and gentlemen, Lacey Spears is not mentally ill, and has not offered a mental health defense that she had diminished capacity or diminished responsibility." Can they say that? I sure would!
 
  • #398
  • #399
On phone so can't snip, but this article has the text of the jury instruction for depraved indifference.
I don't believe she necessarily intended to kill him, but to me she totally fulfills the part about torture!
 
  • #400
You must log in or register to reply here.

Members online

... and 117 more.
Total: 2,388 (members: 118, guests: 2,270)

Online statistics

Members online
118
Guests online
2,270
Total visitors
2,388
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
632,513
Messages
18,627,834
Members
243,174
Latest member
daydoo93
Back
Top