- Joined
- May 9, 2009
- Messages
- 41,878
- Reaction score
- 129,696
May or may not be the case here, but defence lawyers frequently advise their clients to appear engaged with writing so that facial expressions are not so easily observed by jurors.
GUILTY NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, Jul 2020 #4
- Thread starter sds71
- Start date
- Status
May or may not be the case here, but defence lawyers frequently advise their clients to appear engaged with writing so that facial expressions are not so easily observed by jurors.
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2010
- Messages
- 2,213
- Reaction score
- 9,166
I've seen the trial covered quite a bit on CNN
edited to fix typo
edited to fix typo
Last edited:
Oh thank you, that is interesting.
Agree. All part of the facade.
MOO.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
- Messages
- 1,550
- Reaction score
- 9,538
That may explain Kyle Rittenhouse’s copious note-taking during his trial.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 13,073
- Reaction score
- 103,569
As Ghislaine Maxwell’s family is escorted into the courthouse, an accuser waits in the cold
Tue, December 28, 2021, 8:10 AM
Placeholders wait in the pre-dawn hours outside the courtroom in New York City
The line at the Thurgood Marshall United States Courthouse in lower Manhattan begins in the dead cold of night, with a handful of men, shivering under blankets or umbrellas, huddling sometimes in a nearby parked car to keep warm in the wee hours of the morning.
The line-sitters, as they are called, earn $30 to $50 an hour for holding a place in line from 2 to 7 a.m. for those who can afford it — mostly journalists, but some members of the public — to guarantee themselves a seat in the courtroom.
Liz Stein can’t afford a line-sitter, so she waits in line almost every day.
Her day begins at 4 a.m.
She takes a two-hour Greyhound bus ride from her home in Center City, Philadelphia, to the bus depot in midtown Manhattan. She then takes the subway to downtown and walks to Foley Square to wait in front of the courthouse, often in the bitter wind, her feet numb, along with everyone else. At the end of the day, she makes the same two-hour trip back home.
On a good day, the line at the courthouse is short, and she gets into the main courtroom with no questions asked.
On this day, Stein, 48, is dressed impeccably, wearing a bright pink wool coat on top of a blazer, a black skirt and practical shoes; there is often a strand of pearls or a delicate gold locket around her neck.
She sits in the overflow gallery, a backpack at her feet. Inside, are two Victoria’s Secret nightgowns and a black Escada ball gown. She says these items were given to her more than two decades ago by Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, a vivid and painful reminder of the sexual assaults she says she suffered as a 21-year-old college student.
Tue, December 28, 2021, 8:10 AM
Placeholders wait in the pre-dawn hours outside the courtroom in New York CityThe line at the Thurgood Marshall United States Courthouse in lower Manhattan begins in the dead cold of night, with a handful of men, shivering under blankets or umbrellas, huddling sometimes in a nearby parked car to keep warm in the wee hours of the morning.
The line-sitters, as they are called, earn $30 to $50 an hour for holding a place in line from 2 to 7 a.m. for those who can afford it — mostly journalists, but some members of the public — to guarantee themselves a seat in the courtroom.
Liz Stein can’t afford a line-sitter, so she waits in line almost every day.
Her day begins at 4 a.m.
She takes a two-hour Greyhound bus ride from her home in Center City, Philadelphia, to the bus depot in midtown Manhattan. She then takes the subway to downtown and walks to Foley Square to wait in front of the courthouse, often in the bitter wind, her feet numb, along with everyone else. At the end of the day, she makes the same two-hour trip back home.
On a good day, the line at the courthouse is short, and she gets into the main courtroom with no questions asked.
On this day, Stein, 48, is dressed impeccably, wearing a bright pink wool coat on top of a blazer, a black skirt and practical shoes; there is often a strand of pearls or a delicate gold locket around her neck.
She sits in the overflow gallery, a backpack at her feet. Inside, are two Victoria’s Secret nightgowns and a black Escada ball gown. She says these items were given to her more than two decades ago by Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein, a vivid and painful reminder of the sexual assaults she says she suffered as a 21-year-old college student.
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2015
- Messages
- 8,845
- Reaction score
- 44,054
I think you may mean Carolyn, who was friends with VRG, not Jane. Jane was the Interlochen arts camp victim who met GM and JE in 1994, when VRG would have been about 11.
The alleged crimes don't stop at recruitment*, some first point of contact with a victim, or GM being the sole person to decide who travels where. All the counts have different elements.
I'd honestly recommend reading the Jury Charge, maybe take notice of the definitions of 'conspiracy', if you haven't already read it:
Order – #565 in United States v. Maxwell (S.D.N.Y., 1:20-cr-00330) – CourtListener.com
*And in the case of C, I would personally find GM complicit in her recruitment, if I believed C's testimony. Which I do.
Carolyn said she and Maxwell talked about “random personal things”, including her past sexual abuse. Maxwell asked her about sex toys and touched her, she said.
“I was upstairs setting up the massage table and at that point I was kind of comfortable because I’d been there so many times,” she said. “I was getting fully nude, and she came in and felt my
and my hips and my buttocks and said … that I had a great body for Mr Epstein and his friends. She just said that I had a good body type.”
Maxwell left the room and Epstein entered, Carolyn said. She was still just 14.
As time went on, she said, Epstein’s abuse came to include vaginal penetration and group sex. An Epstein associate took naked photos of her, she said. During sexualized massages with Epstein, Carolyn said, she told him about her “screwed up home life” including past abuse.
Third accuser alleges Ghislaine Maxwell preyed on her when she was a minor“I was upstairs setting up the massage table and at that point I was kind of comfortable because I’d been there so many times,” she said. “I was getting fully nude, and she came in and felt my
and my hips and my buttocks and said … that I had a great body for Mr Epstein and his friends. She just said that I had a good body type.”Maxwell left the room and Epstein entered, Carolyn said. She was still just 14.
As time went on, she said, Epstein’s abuse came to include vaginal penetration and group sex. An Epstein associate took naked photos of her, she said. During sexualized massages with Epstein, Carolyn said, she told him about her “screwed up home life” including past abuse.
BBM.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 13,073
- Reaction score
- 103,569
Jurors for Ghislaine Maxwell trail say they are 'making progress' as judge warns of possible mistrial
“Things are moving along and we are making progress,” the note said. “We are at a good point, and would like to end today at 5 p.m. and continue tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.”
If jurors can’t reach a verdict Wednesday, Nathan has a plan.
She told government and defense lawyers that she was preparing to order jurors to continue deliberating through the weekend until they reach a decision.
“We are, very simply, at a vastly different place regarding the pandemic than we were only a week ago,” the judge said.
“We now face a high and daily escalating risk that jurors and or necessary trial participants would need to quarantine, thus disrupting trial — putting at risk our ability to complete this trial. Put simply, I conclude that proceeding this way is the best chance to both give the jury as much time as they need and to avoid a mistrial as a result of the omicron variant.”
Nathan said she would not force jurors to come in if they had unmovable commitments.
In excusing jurors for the day on Tuesday, Nathan asked them to continue to wear high-quality masks at all times and maintain distance in the jury room. She also offered to provide them transportation to and from the lower Manhattan courthouse.
“I am going to ask that deliberations continue going forward on the schedule every day this week until a verdict is reached, so please make yourselves available should it be necessary to sit for deliberations for the remainder of the week,” she said.
“Of course, by this, I don’t mean to pressure you in any way — you should take all the time that you need. Have a good night. Stay safe and healthy.”
“Things are moving along and we are making progress,” the note said. “We are at a good point, and would like to end today at 5 p.m. and continue tomorrow morning at 9 a.m.”
If jurors can’t reach a verdict Wednesday, Nathan has a plan.
She told government and defense lawyers that she was preparing to order jurors to continue deliberating through the weekend until they reach a decision.
“We are, very simply, at a vastly different place regarding the pandemic than we were only a week ago,” the judge said.
“We now face a high and daily escalating risk that jurors and or necessary trial participants would need to quarantine, thus disrupting trial — putting at risk our ability to complete this trial. Put simply, I conclude that proceeding this way is the best chance to both give the jury as much time as they need and to avoid a mistrial as a result of the omicron variant.”
Nathan said she would not force jurors to come in if they had unmovable commitments.
In excusing jurors for the day on Tuesday, Nathan asked them to continue to wear high-quality masks at all times and maintain distance in the jury room. She also offered to provide them transportation to and from the lower Manhattan courthouse.
“I am going to ask that deliberations continue going forward on the schedule every day this week until a verdict is reached, so please make yourselves available should it be necessary to sit for deliberations for the remainder of the week,” she said.
“Of course, by this, I don’t mean to pressure you in any way — you should take all the time that you need. Have a good night. Stay safe and healthy.”
This absolutely frosts me.
MOO.
What they are enduring for the likes of this low life Ms Maxwell.
Once again MOO.
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2018
- Messages
- 13,073
- Reaction score
- 103,569
Yah. It gets real.
"Mean Streets" of NY.
What "frosts" me is all the good she could have done for the young women, helping them get a good start in life instead of using them.
Using them for personal gain.
To stay in good favor with and in the good graces of an evil man who bestowed riches upon riches upon her.
Hard to feel sorry for her jail conditions even though I don't agree with them.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Oct 22, 2009
- Messages
- 7,279
- Reaction score
- 49,967
I encourage my clients to take notes as they feel necessary and to give me notes as well. They know the facts of their case better than anyone and can often point out important discrepancies. But sometimes they can get carried away and very distracting if they keep trying to give me copious amounts of notes. I will then have my assistant sort of act as a buffer then.
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2009
- Messages
- 5,568
- Reaction score
- 29,659
I don't know much about GM's life before Epstein, but I do know a little.
Based on that little bit, I suspect that GM had a childhood consisting of being her father's so-called favorite as baby of the family (he named his yacht after her), yet unable to do anything to earn his respect no matter how hard she tried or what she tried. And he wasn't shy about belittling her efforts.
I think in Epstein she found a sort of father figure who appreciated her "skills," as depraved as they were, in a way she had been seeking from her actual father her whole life.
This is NOT intended in any way to make excuses for her depraved actions.
I just like to try to comprehend, in any situation in which someone's life has gone horribly wrong, what happened.
Based on that little bit, I suspect that GM had a childhood consisting of being her father's so-called favorite as baby of the family (he named his yacht after her), yet unable to do anything to earn his respect no matter how hard she tried or what she tried. And he wasn't shy about belittling her efforts.
I think in Epstein she found a sort of father figure who appreciated her "skills," as depraved as they were, in a way she had been seeking from her actual father her whole life.
This is NOT intended in any way to make excuses for her depraved actions.
I just like to try to comprehend, in any situation in which someone's life has gone horribly wrong, what happened.
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2004
- Messages
- 42,923
- Reaction score
- 126,898
Ironic then that her father and her father figure both committed suicide, although her father made a better show of it.
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2012
- Messages
- 1,002
- Reaction score
- 6,194
Someone wrote, in error, on the Australian Broadcasting site that she had been convicted on all counts, and given a sentence of 32 years, earlier today. For just a moment my heart soared!
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2021
- Messages
- 2,130
- Reaction score
- 18,026
May be some nice foreshadowing!
Marta Dhanis
@MartaDhanis
Day 18 of t #GhislaineMaxwelltrial and 6th of deliberations. The jury has deliberated so far for roughly 32 hours and sent out 13 notes. T last one said they “are making progress”. This comes at a time when t judge voiced to the parties her fear that Omicron may force a mistrial
@MartaDhanis
Day 18 of t #GhislaineMaxwelltrial and 6th of deliberations. The jury has deliberated so far for roughly 32 hours and sent out 13 notes. T last one said they “are making progress”. This comes at a time when t judge voiced to the parties her fear that Omicron may force a mistrial
Marlon Ettinger
@MarlonEttinger
I asked Maxwell's defense lawyer Bobbi Sternheim earlier in the day what the longest she'd had a jury deliberate for was.
"A couple of weeks," she replied.
Is that a good sign?
"That just means they're doing their job. It's all you can ask for," Sternheim said.
@MarlonEttinger
I asked Maxwell's defense lawyer Bobbi Sternheim earlier in the day what the longest she'd had a jury deliberate for was.
"A couple of weeks," she replied.
Is that a good sign?
"That just means they're doing their job. It's all you can ask for," Sternheim said.
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2021
- Messages
- 2,130
- Reaction score
- 18,026
I have a feeling that we will have a verdict either today or tomorrow.
The way I have read her up bringing is her oldest brother was in a coma close to when she was born, he was in hospital/medical center? very close to their home. He lived for like 6 years then died. To me it was the first years of her life that she probably didn’t get much attention.
Looks like to me that after his death her father then made up for it.
I have wondered if her father somehow hooked up with JE and invested the money he stole from his businesses. Her father was buried on the mount of olives, there have been articles about her father being Mossad. It was not long after she goes to NY and meets JE. She got 80000? Month from father and JE took care of her.
Jmo
- Joined
- May 21, 2013
- Messages
- 19,750
- Reaction score
- 152,535
Assuming of course, one believes that either/both actually checked out that way. I for one, definitely do not.
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
- Locked
