NY - Ghislaine Maxwell, Jeffrey Epstein confidante, arrested on Sex Abuse charges, July 2020 #2

[Kemug]

I am no fan of Andrew's, but I do think this case isn't really fair on him. Virginia was young, yes, but she didn't look like a child to me. How was Andrew meant to know how old she was? Virginia and JE knew - so it could be said that they were conspiring against Andrew, even though she was unwilling.

 

[tayaway]

I am no fan of Andrew's, but I do think this case isn't really fair on him. Virginia was young, yes, but she didn't look like a child to me. How was Andrew meant to know how old she was? Virginia and JE knew - so it could be said that they were conspiring against Andrew, even though she was unwilling.

To clarify, it's not a lawsuit against PA for pedophilia, it's about sex with a minor. Big difference. PA ain't no Josh Duggar.

Let's slip back into JE's world, where these encounters are alleged to have happened. Was PA was so naïve and clueless that he had no idea that any of the underage girls kept at JE's island or Manhattan mansion or GM's London pad, were minors? Had he never heard of the infamous Lolita Express, despite being close friends with JE? If he wasn't in the know, why'd he keep coming back even after JE's conviction for prostitution involving a minor? Is life really so unfair to a prince who's spent his entire life above the law, so protected that even Met cops have no recourse against him when they file complaints against him? Didn't he already have 40 years of experience of lowlife commoners trying to cozy up to him for his money and power, to easily spot such a pathetic money digger a mile away?

Why did The Firm remove him from his royal duties and take away his allowance, if he was simply an innocent bystander?

 

[Kemug]

Well yes, I think PA is naive and clueless - well, maybe not naive, but certainly clueless and in fact brainless. But I had forgotten about his continued friendship with JE even after his first conviction. So I suppose you're right - though if ever anyone could plead not guilty because of sheer stupidity, it's Andrew.

 

[JDG]

To clarify, it's not a lawsuit against PA for pedophilia, it's about sex with a minor. Big difference. PA ain't no Josh Duggar.

Let's slip back into JE's world, where these encounters are alleged to have happened. Was PA was so naïve and clueless that he had no idea that any of the underage girls kept at JE's island or Manhattan mansion or GM's London pad, were minors? Had he never heard of the infamous Lolita Express, despite being close friends with JE? If he wasn't in the know, why'd he keep coming back even after JE's conviction for prostitution involving a minor? Is life really so unfair to a prince who's spent his entire life above the law, so protected that even Met cops have no recourse against him when they file complaints against him? Didn't he already have 40 years of experience of lowlife commoners trying to cozy up to him for his money and power, to easily spot such a pathetic money digger a mile away?

Why did The Firm remove him from his royal duties and take away his allowance, if he was simply an innocent bystander?

I think PA and other royals rarely, if ever, hang out with commoners. They have aristocrats and toffs to hang out with, so his ‘street smarts’ would be very limited IMO.

Remembering that most of the RF are not so bright, he may not have thought twice about gorgeous young women/girls at his beck and call. Age of consent is younger in Britain and I’m sure he didn’t check their IDs. PA has always been attracted to and surrounded by young women, loves the attention etc.

He lost his royal duties because the courtiers told his mum that it was super bad optics for the Monarchy. IMO, courtiers are the brains that keep the Monarchy going. That’s why they advise the Monarch about every detail, daily.

I have met his ex wife, she is absolutely lovely despite what the press says about her. We were all a lot younger and she was gorgeous with her beautiful red hair and stunning green eyes.

Now, I think the years have caught up with her but she’s likely just as delightful as she was then.

 

[Legally Bland]

VRG is claiming PA knew her age. Guess we'll have to see if it's documented or just verbal communications.

45. During each of the aforementioned incidents, Prince Andrew knew Plaintiff’s age based on communications from Epstein and Maxwell.​

https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Prince-Phillip-sexual-assault-lawsuit.pdf

 

[Estelle]

Can you please post the link?

Why the Queen is unlikely to pay for Prince Andrew’s lawsuit

https://www.news.com.au/entertainme...t/news-story/d052d66f586308a243e3a2a853191d96

 

[Estelle]

It's a lawsuit, not a criminal trial. ETA: You know who does have the photos/vid if it did happen? JE - oh wait. GM?

Do you have a link for that statement?

 

[Estelle]

Same, but in our victim-blaming culture, VRG and any witnesses or records that dispute PA's 'never met her before' are all dismissed and automatic credit and praise are given to the poor, wrongly accused, wonderful white male prince. Never mind that PA continued to cross the Atlantic to hang with convicted sex offender JE or that he's been removed from his official duties or that he's lost his yearly 250K allowance or that his own team doesn't know how to duct tape his Randy Andy reputation into something slightly more decent.

eta: Forgot to include that tiny little bit about PA getting 3 mill over the value for a derelict property that he sold years ago to one of his Kazahk billionaire pals. Of course, there's also the allegations that PA was a key player in securing some infrastructure projects in Kazakhstan. Of course, The Firm denied all of it, so clearly, just as with JE, the honorable prince was again an innocent bystander, wrongly smeared by money-hungry press.

These sorts of comments are not relevant to this lawsuit other than to blacken PA's name.

 

[tayaway]

These sorts of comments are not relevant to this lawsuit other than to blacken PA's name.

They are evidence of his character, which will be on trial, as the jury must decide who is the more credible witness, PA or VRG.

Can you please post the link?

This quote includes:

I heard that after they have finished with PA, they are going to go after Clinton if they have been successful. This case is a test case as there is more evidence against Clinton.

But why not go after Clinton now?

Did I miss you posting a link for the Clinton bit? Sometimes keeping track of all this stuff can get confusing.

Why the Queen is unlikely to pay for Prince Andrew’s lawsuit

Prince Andrew facing financial ruin

This offers a great insight into why it'd be a bad idea for the queen to pay, but it doesn't explain why the taxpayers or Prince Charles wouldn't foot the bill, unless I've missed part of the article? IMO: I doubt PC would put a single pound towards PA's legal fees.

Do you have a link for that statement?

As I said, if it happened, JE had cameras that taped his trafficked girls with powerful clients.

...ok, @Estelle, I'm not sure, but I think I've caught up on our banter?

 

[Estelle]

My attitude to the age of consent is because in my state, the age of consent is 16yo whereas is the UK it is 17yo and in the US, the age varies according to which state you are in. The same with drinking. In Australia, we can drink alcohol at age 18 whereas is most US states, the age is 21yo. Many of my friends here were already having sex at 16yo and drinking at 18yo.

In New South Wales, a person can legally consent to sexual activity once they are 16 years of age. A person who is under 16 years of age cannot lawfully consent to sexual activity, whether it be kissing, touching or sexual intercourse. Any person who engages in sexual activity with a person who is under the age of consent may be guilty of a crime.

Having sex with an underage person is an offence even if the person under 16 wanted to engage in the conduct. This is because a person under the age of 16 is legally incapable of consenting to sexual activity. A person under the age of 16, who wants to engage in sexual activity may be considered to be a ‘willing participant’. However, that does not mean the act is consensual at law.

As outlined above, the age of consent in New South Wales is 16 years meaning that sexual activity with any consenting person who is above the age of 16 is legal. However, there is an exception relating to relationships involving ‘special care’.

Similar Age Defence
The defence of ‘similar age’ can be raised where the age difference between the alleged victim and the accused is less than 2 years, provided the victim is 14 years of age or older.

The defence of similar age can be argued in relation to sexual offences involving children under the age of 16. This most commonly occurs where:

1. two persons between the ages of 14 and 16 engage in sexual activity and both are willing participants; or
2. two persons engage in sexual activity and both are willing participants but one person is above the age of 16 and the other is below, provided the age difference is no more than 2 years.

Other Possible Defences
A person may have a defence to a child sexual offence with which they are charged if they are found to have made an ‘honest and reasonable’ mistake as to the age of the young person. The mistake must be both honest and reasonable. It is not enough that a person truly believed that another was over the age of 16 if the circumstances of that belief are not reasonable.

Age of Consent (NSW) | Armstrong Legal

I am not sure how they can prove that PA knew VR's age and also how they can prove that she was forced to have sex with him as she has waited all these years to come forward and report it. It seems to be about the money as far as I can see. PA's BBC interview was a disaster for him in many aspects especially as he denied even knowing her when there is a photo of them together.

 

[tayaway]

SBM

I am not sure how they can prove that PA knew VR's age and also how they can prove that she was forced to have sex with him as she has waited all these years to come forward and report it. It seems to be about the money as far as I can see. PA's BBC interview was a disaster for him in many aspects especially as he denied even knowing her when there is a photo of them together.

The burden of proof certainly sits with VRG's team. How will it play out? Will the court make a judgement in PA's absence? If it's in VRG's favor, at most, will PA simply pull a Roman Polanski and avoid all travel to the US? Can the court go after him for the money in the UK and how would they do it? Do we know if VRG is one of the women who brought a claim against JE's estate, and if so, how much did she receive? IMO, the lawsuit is about making a statement. Does she herself even believe she's got a chance at a win, given everything stacked against her? She's not hurting for money, since she moved with her family into a $1.9M beach home last year.

 

[Estelle]

Virginia Roberts Giuffre

From Age 7 It was reported that she had come from a "troubled home" and was molested by a close family friend.
Age 13 Giuffre told the Miami Herald that she went from being in "an abusive situation, to being a runaway, to living in foster homes." She lived on the streets before getting abused by a 65-year-old sex trafficker, Ron Eppinger, in Miami. Giuffre lived with Eppinger for approximately 6 months. Eppinger reportedly ran a front business for international sex trafficking known as the modeling agency "Perfect 10". He was raided by the FBI and later pleaded guilty to charges of alien smuggling for prostitution, interstate travel for prostitution, and money laundering.
Age 14 Giuffre reunited with her father and returned to live with him. Her father worked as a maintenance manager at the Mar-a-Lago property owned by Donald Trump, and also helped Giuffre obtain a job there.
2000 Giuffre first met Ghislaine Maxwell when working as a spa attendant at Donald Trump's private Mar-a-Lago club while reading a book about massage therapy. Maxwell, a British socialite and daughter of the late media tycoon Robert Maxwell, approached Giuffre, noted the book that she was reading, inquired about her interest in massage, and offered her a potential job working for Epstein as a traveling masseuse with the assurance that no experience was necessary. Giuffre has stated that after Maxwell introduced her to Jeffrey Epstein, the two quickly began grooming her to provide sexual services under the guise that she was to be trained as a professional massage therapist.
2000 - 2002, Giuffre was closely associated with Epstein and Maxwell, traveling between Epstein's residences in Palm Beach and Manhattan (at the Herbert N. Straus House), with additional trips to Epstein's Zorro ranch in New Mexico and private island Little Saint James. In the Miami Herald's award-winning investigative journalism series "Perversion of Justice", Giuffre describes her experiences of being trafficked by Epstein to provide massages and sexual services for him and a number of his business associates over a two-and-a-half-year period.
In March 2001 She claims that Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell took her to Tramp nightclub in London, where she met and danced with Andrew and that later that night, while en route to Maxwell's Belgravia residence, Maxwell instructed Giuffre to "do for (Prince Andrew) what you do for Epstein. It was a "wicked" and "really scary time" in her life and that she "couldn't comprehend how in the highest level of the government powerful people were allowing this to happen. Not just allowing but participating in it." In court documents from a civil suit that were released from seal in 2019, Giuffre named several others that she claims Epstein and Maxwell instructed her to have sex with, including hedge fund manager Glenn Dubin, attorney Alan Dershowitz, politician Bill Richardson, the late MIT scientist Marvin Minsky, lawyer George J. Mitchell, and MC2 modeling agent Jean-Luc Brunel.
In September 2002, at the age of 19, Giuffre flew to Thailand and attended the International Training Massage School in Chiang Mai. Maxwell provided her with tickets to travel to Thailand, and instructed her to meet with a specific Thai girl to bring her back to the United States for Epstein.
While at the massage school in Thailand in 2002, she met Robert Giuffre, an Australian martial arts trainer, and the two married quickly thereafter. She contacted Epstein and informed him that she would not be returning as planned. She and her husband started a life and family in Australia, and Giuffre broke off contact with Epstein and Maxwell.
2011 When asked whether Prince Andrew would have information, she told her lawyers: "Yes, he would know a lot of the truth." "Again, I don’t know how much he would be able to help you with, but seeing he's in a lot of trouble himself these days, I think he might,” she added. "So, I think he may be valuable. I’m not too sure of him."
2015 - 2017. VR sued Maxwell for defamation in 2015, and the case was settled in Giuffre's favor for an undisclosed sum.
2019 Giuffre described her alleged experiences of being sex trafficked by Epstein to Britain's Prince Andrew in an interview for the BBC's Panorama.

Virginia Roberts Giuffre - Wikipedia

 

[Estelle]

Civil cases

Virginia Roberts affidavit (2014)
Giuffre filed court papers in Florida in January 2015, stating that Epstein trafficked her to Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz. In a sworn affidavit, she claims Maxwell worked as Epstein's madam. In April 2015, a federal judge ruled that Giuffre could not join the federal Crime Victims' Rights Act lawsuit, and her affidavit was stricken from the case.

Virginia Giuffre v. Ghislaine Maxwell (2015)
As a result of Giuffre's allegations and Maxwell's comments about them, Giuffre sued Maxwell for defamation in federal court in New York in September 2015. After much legal confrontation, the case was settled under seal in June 2017 with Maxwell reportedly paying Giuffre "millions".

Virginia Giuffre v. Alan Dershowitz (2019)
In April 2019, Giuffre filed a federal civil defamation lawsuit against Alan Dershowitz in New York. Giuffre was first represented by David Boies but Alan Dershowitz successfully had him removed from the case as he claimed that members of the law firm could be called to witness in the trial. She was subsequently represented by lawyer Charles Cooper. Boies filed a separate defamation lawsuit against Dershowitz for implying that Boies had pressured Giuffre into making false claims.

Virginia Giuffre v. Prince Andrew (2021)
Giuffre filed a lawsuit against Britain's Prince Andrew in New York federal court in August 2021 alleging that she was forced to have several sexual encounters with the prince in the early 2000s after being trafficked by Epstein as a teenager.

Virginia Roberts Giuffre - Wikipedia

Boies is VRG's current lawyer who will gain 50% if her case is successful.

 

[sds71]

Prosecutors Ask Judge to Withhold the Names of Ghislaine Maxwell's 'Uncharged Co-Conspirators' from Her

 

[tayaway]

Prosecutors Ask Judge to Withhold the Names of Ghislaine Maxwell's 'Uncharged Co-Conspirators' from Her

Prosecutor indicate that Maxwell’s upcoming trial in November will not shine a spotlight on many other people accused of aiding and abetting Epstein. Their letter states that they currently only plan to introduce “co-conspirator statements” by “only two individuals”: Epstein himself and an employee who scheduled his “massage” appointments around 2004.

Would that be Maria Farmer? Am I remembering correctly that she worked at the desk for a few months?

 

[Legally Bland]

I think Maria Farmer has always been viewed as a victim. Maybe Sarah Kellen?

Kellen was Epstein’s personal assistant for at least 10 years and has been named in lawsuits as the “lieutenant” and second in command for the moneyman’s accused madam, Maxwell, who is currently facing serious sex crimes charges.

According to the lawsuits, she allegedly kept lists of young women to recruit as “massage therapists” for her boss, booked travel for them and even took them to his room where they were abused.

Accused Ghislaine Maxwell ‘lieutenant’ Sarah Kellen says she is victim

 

[Dotta]

Civil cases

Virginia Roberts affidavit (2014)
Giuffre filed court papers in Florida in January 2015, stating that Epstein trafficked her to Prince Andrew and Alan Dershowitz. In a sworn affidavit, she claims Maxwell worked as Epstein's madam. In April 2015, a federal judge ruled that Giuffre could not join the federal Crime Victims' Rights Act lawsuit, and her affidavit was stricken from the case.

Virginia Giuffre v. Ghislaine Maxwell (2015)
As a result of Giuffre's allegations and Maxwell's comments about them, Giuffre sued Maxwell for defamation in federal court in New York in September 2015. After much legal confrontation, the case was settled under seal in June 2017 with Maxwell reportedly paying Giuffre "millions".

Virginia Giuffre v. Alan Dershowitz (2019)
In April 2019, Giuffre filed a federal civil defamation lawsuit against Alan Dershowitz in New York. Giuffre was first represented by David Boies but Alan Dershowitz successfully had him removed from the case as he claimed that members of the law firm could be called to witness in the trial. She was subsequently represented by lawyer Charles Cooper. Boies filed a separate defamation lawsuit against Dershowitz for implying that Boies had pressured Giuffre into making false claims.

Virginia Giuffre v. Prince Andrew (2021)
Giuffre filed a lawsuit against Britain's Prince Andrew in New York federal court in August 2021 alleging that she was forced to have several sexual encounters with the prince in the early 2000s after being trafficked by Epstein as a teenager.

Virginia Roberts Giuffre - Wikipedia

Boies is VRG's current lawyer who will gain 50% if her case is successful.

Virginia was a MINOR who was treated like a "commodity rented" for sex. JE and GM made a prostitute out of a vulnerable and troubled girl. She deserves the compensation as high as possible - and her lawyer also for always protecting and defending her.

 

[sds71]

Prosecutor indicate that Maxwell’s upcoming trial in November will not shine a spotlight on many other people accused of aiding and abetting Epstein. Their letter states that they currently only plan to introduce “co-conspirator statements” by “only two individuals”: Epstein himself and an employee who scheduled his “massage” appointments around 2004.

Would that be Maria Farmer? Am I remembering correctly that she worked at the desk for a few months?

I thought it was the woman from N.J. or the one from CT.

eta: Lesley Groff and Rina Oh

 

[Dotta]

Canadian filmmaker Ian Halperin offers Prince Andrew $100million to take a lie detector test | Daily Mail Online What a circus! And shame for the RF.

 

[mickey2942]

50% of what? If PA owns nothing and earns nothing, what will VG get in a lawsuit? It is akin to suing some loser who lives in his Mama's basement. PA is pretty much the world's biggest loser.

I looked up PA's net worth, $45 million. That surprises me, and I bet, that his assets have been removed from him, he also receives about $400,000 a year from his Mama. It wouldn't surprise me, if stealth he has been putting things in his daughters names, giving them gifts of cash.

VG may win...but PA may not be a golden egg.