NY - Gov Spitzer tells staff he's linked to prostitution ring

[Native New Yorker]

"Kristen, a 22-year-old named Ashley Alexandra Dupré, who had entertained a guest at the Mayflower at least once before, arrived toting four bags and stayed overnight, an employee said. She left the next day — Valentine’s Day — in jeans and an Army camouflage jacket, the employee recalled."


http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/20/f...143577f3fe50d1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

 

[nanandjim]

My ex said that he has heard that she was carrying lots of bondage stuff, which would have set off metal detectors at airport. If this is true, it could lead to more embarrassing revelations for Spitzer.
I, quite frankly did not believe this, until I read about the four suitcases. I will find and post that link.

Wouldn't she have checked those bags if she had taken a plane? Of course, I guess that there would be a chance that her luggage could have gotten lost. I find this very plausible. He was paying a lot of money. This girl was pretty, but pretty girls are a dime a dozen, IMO. He had to be paying a lot of money for something more than just plain sex...

 

[sweetmop]

Okay, my imagination is not that vivid. What's the rumored "heavy stuff??" :waitasec:

I don't believe in sexual addiction. I think that it is another name for lack of impulse control...

I'm with you nan, I don't believe there's such a thing either.
A lack of impulse control, yes, and a lack of self control,yes, plus he would still be "doing it", had he not been caught/stopped!

Addiction therapy is a cop out for him,a way to remove blame from himself, plus he's hoping it will keep him from being arrested!!!

With these men ( and women ), " It's all about me " seems to be their motto!

 

[Trino]

I'm with you nan, I don't believe there's such a thing either. A lack of impulse control, yes, and a lack of self control,yes, plus he would still be "doing it", had he not been caught/stopped! Addiction therapy is a cop out for him,a way to remove blame from himself, plus he's hoping it will keep him from being arrested!!! With these men ( and women ), " It's all about me " seems to be their motto!

If Spitzer ends up in court, with therapy he can demonstrate that he has a problem and is seeking counseling, something that will play in his favor.

Four suitcases! My gosh. What was in them? (Am I naive, or what?) She was with him for 2 1/2 hours - wonder what $4300 includes.

 

[luthersmama]

I read a New York Times article about the Mayflower Hotel, where the tryst took place, between Elliot and Ashley/Kirsten. The article stated that she checked in with FOUR pieces of luggage. For one night? Hmmmm. Have also heard that that was the reason for her taking the train, as opposed to plane....suitcases with heavy, uh, "stuff". Sounds interesting, and yes, Elliot may need therapy...

I would take the train from NYC to DC, simply because of the lead time to go to the airport and check in blah blah blah. I like the Amtrak trains on the Northeast Corridor, especially the ones that still have cafes. And when you get to DC, you are a short taxi ride to wherever you want to go. Makes perfect sense to me.

Short taxi ride to Penn Station, relaxing 3 or 4 hour train ride depending on whether you get a Metroliner or the Acela, short taxi to the Mayflower.....better than flying from LaGuardia to Reagan, IMHO.

 

[Truly]

No of course they would not be for it, but I am an adult and so was this young lady. Parents do not have to approve of what their adult children do.

I am just so surprised to find so much self rightousness (sp?) here. I thought people were more open minded than that here. There are those who think it is gross and disrespectful that we discuss horrible crimes on a website. Some of my friends have been appalled at the idea. There may be people in your own family or friends that don't approve of you being on websleuths discussing horrible bloody crimes. Not everyone is going to approve of what someone does.

Self-righteousness? Try self-esteem. :crazy: (haha...try Righteous Babe Records!)

The problem with prostitution is that it accepts as a basic premise the idea that men are entitled to purchase young people to engage in sex with. You think it is ok for a man to purchase your friend? There is a huge international problem of men traveling to pay for sex with extremely young children. Heck, there are kids in every city in America working the streets, all for a pimp to make money off of selling the kids for sex.

I think that most of the crimes that all decent people are disgusted by and are determined to prosecute involve men who think they have the right to molest, rape, torture...heck even murder any child or young person. That whole mindset that young women and children are nothing but sex toys to buy and sell contributes to most crimes that I care about stopping.

Don't even start that bs that working as a is feminist. Getting a life is feminist. :crazy:

 

[southcitymom]

Okay, my imagination is not that vivid. What's the rumored "heavy stuff??" :waitasec:

I don't believe in sexual addiction. I think that it is another name for lack of impulse control...

Drug addiction is also another name for lack of impulse control, but medical experts actually treat it as a disease because thats what works in terms of helping the most people change and find recovery from their harming, harmful behaviors. Sexual addiction is the same. Addiction is addiction is addiction regardless of the "thing" being abused.

 

[southcitymom]

..... plus he would still be "doing it", had he not been caught/stopped!.......

Well, ah, sure - I'd still be doing massive amounts of drugs if I hadn't been caught/stopped. That's pretty much the story of 99.9% of addicts I know, though some, of course, do decide on their own without "outside" influence.

 

[Truly]

southcitymom, you know I love ya, but... what are you saying?

I think it is a cop-out to say that men paying for is an addiction. It is a game. Plain and simple. They don't think they should be caught or prosecuted...and apparently neither do you? Why should Spitzer get to just go off to some fancy spa? Why should he not be arrested for violating New York State law?

Do you think that people who rape their infants are also poor addicts who just need a couple of weeks at a spa and no prosecution?

I really appreciate your posts, and I am asking sincerely. I have read your posts in this thread (ignoring moderators putting words in your quotes...) Peace.

 

[Trino]

IMO it's a good thing the Feds caught him. I think he would have been bribed sooner or later.

 

[southcitymom]

southcitymom, you know I love ya, but... what are you saying?

I think it is a cop-out to say that men paying for is an addiction. It is a game. Plain and simple. They don't think they should be caught or prosecuted...and apparently neither do you? Why should Spitzer get to just go off to some fancy spa? Why should he not be arrested for violating New York State law?

Do you think that people who rape their infants are also poor addicts who just need a couple of weeks at a spa and no prosecution?

I really appreciate your posts, and I am asking sincerely. I have read your posts in this thread (ignoring moderators putting words in your quotes...) Peace.

Hey Truly,

I don't know if Elliott is a sex addict. His behavior certainly indicates that he might be one. Going to treatment is a great start in determining that for himself and to that end, I applaud his choice to seek guidance.

I'm saying that sex addiction is no different than alcoholism or drug addiction in terms of its presentation in a person's life and its effects on the people around that person. Again - if we accept that addiction is a disease (many people do not, but experts do), then sexual addiction is simply one manifestation of that disease.

As far as prosecution - in this country we do prosecute people who break our country's laws. Alcoholics get fines and jail time for DUIs. Drug addicts get the same for using or selling. While I personally think drugs and prostitution should be legal, I don't have a problem with people paying the price for their choices. These prices are how many people reach a bottom with behaviors that are harming their life.

Many people see addiction of any kind as a moral failing. I see that attitude everywhere, but it's not an attitude I share and it's not an attitude I find useful in helping people who struggle with addiction. The shame of addiction helps keep people trapped in their dark, painful patterns.

We hear constantly from society at large that we are weak, selfish, ungrateful, hopeless losers. While we know this is true, that sort of message just makes us want to use more - trust me! It gives us permission to continue to separate ourselves from the rest of society - this leads to everything from suicide to crime against our fellows. It's just not good for anyone.

I care only about helping addicts learn to make new choices, repair the damage they've wrought and find a life, not just worth living, but beyond their wildest dreams.

I'm sure Elliott will be charged with something. I do not care if he goes to jail or not. Perhaps he will come out of treatment convinced that he is struggling with a sexual addiction or perhaps he will come out of treatment thinking he's just not meant to be in a monogamous relationship. I don't know. But again - his behavior indicates he may have a sexual addiction issue. So it's wise of him to explore that and try to find some peace for himself.

Now - is it possible he's just going to treatment to get off the hot seat and look good in Court? Sure - absolutely. But I'm incapable of assuming the worst of people without a lot more information than I have here.

There are many terrific people in my life who have done rotten things that hurt themselves and others - and I get the privilege of watching them change. I get to watch this positive change happen in tiny little baby steps day in and day out and, I think this is the reason that my faith in flawed humans choosing new and positive paths is boundless.

 

[Trino]

I don't know exactly what constitutes a sex addiction, but I think it would need to be more than a 2 1/2 hour once-a-month encounter. If he were a true addict, why didn't he go after more women on a daily basis; why only prostitutes? IMO it was more of an in-your-face additude, more of, "I'm above the law."

 

[philamena]

southcitymom, you know I love ya, but... what are you saying?

I think it is a cop-out to say that men paying for is an addiction. It is a game. Plain and simple.

Truly,
hi. I have to disagree with you about men who pay for not being addicts. Sexual addiction is a very real thing and I have no doubt that some men get addicted to hookers.

Maybe it's the thrill of doing something illegal or the sneaking around that without getting caught that drives an addicted person.
Now, I'm not saying all men who pay for hookers are addicts but I'm sure some are.

 

[southcitymom]

I don't know exactly what constitutes a sex addiction, but I think it would need to be more than a 2 1/2 hour once-a-month encounter. If he were a true addict, why didn't he go after more women on a daily basis; why only prostitutes? IMO it was more of an in-your-face additude, more of, "I'm above the law."

We don't know that he was only having a 2/1/2 hour sexual encounters once a month.

What constitutes any sort of addiction is a powerlessness over the compulsion to engage in a certain behavior coupled with unmanageability in your life caused by that behavior.

Addiction is never about amount. There are drug addicts in this world who have used less dope than I spilled in my using career. But they are addicts just as surely as I am.

As far as sex addiction - some people only act out with prostitutes, some people only act out with internet , some people only act out with strangers that they meet on Tuesdays mornings on Craigslist.

Just like with drug addiction - some people only use heroin, some people only use cocaine, some people only use Scotch. Again - whatever your kink or thing is is not what defines the addiction.

The above the law thing I can relate to. I was very in-your-face about my using and never cared about whether or not it was legal.

 

[Truly]

Thank you for your honest and insightful reply. I do believe that people with drug or alcohol addictions can take the steps to free themselves of the drugs and start anew with a clear head and a bright future. I do support treatment for addiction in those instances.

The difference to me seems to be that a person can harm themselves alone with drugs or alcohol (although it is true that families are often quite seriously affected). But I do agree that drug and alchohol addicts can recover and heal themselves and also repair their relationships. I am proud of those who do stop using drugs.

But a person who buys another person to act out some sex fantasy is harming others. It is no secret that most sex offenders target extremely young people. Those who can't afford four grand per night simply take a young person or child and assault them. I honestly cannot care about the sex fantasies of a person who will have sex with a child. It happens all the time; lots of prostitutes are children who are forced into it, and I want those men prosecuted. Sex addict counseling is not going to stop men from thinking they have the right to sexually assault any young person they see. Women who encourage it by saying it's ok, so long as enough cash changes hands, are not helping to stop the violence against women and children. Selling your body makes men think that all young people are for sale. Or rent. Or free for the taking.

Sex is beautiful. Buying and selling human beings is not.

 

[Taximom]

If you have a sex addiction, are there different levels? I would think if you truly have a sex addiction you don't care who, what, where, when, how you get laid. He seems to have at least picked or had some control over who he slept with, and that was a very expensive, pretty, young woman.

 

[Trino]

We don't know that he was only having a 2/1/2 hour sexual encounters once a month.

What constitutes any sort of addiction is a powerlessness over the compulsion to engage in a certain behavior coupled with unmanageability in your life caused by that behavior.

Addiction is never about amount. There are drug addicts in this world who have used less dope than I spilled in my using career. But they are addicts just as surely as I am.

As far as sex addiction - some people only act out with prostitutes, some people only act out with internet , some people only act out with strangers that they meet on Tuesdays mornings on Craigslist.

Just like with drug addiction - some people only use heroin, some people only use cocaine, some people only use Scotch. Again - whatever your kink or thing is is not what defines the addiction.

The above the law thing I can relate to. I was very in-your-face about my using and never cared about whether or not it was legal.

It has been reported that his encounters were about once a month.

Also, a drug addict need drugs more than once a month. Same with cocaine users and alcoholics. If a person drinks only once a month (even to excess) does that make him/her an alcoholic? I don't think so.

 

[southcitymom]

Thank you for your honest and insightful reply. I do believe that people with drug or alcohol addictions can take the steps to free themselves of the drugs and start anew with a clear head and a bright future. I do support treatment for addiction in those instances.

The difference to me seems to be that a person can harm themselves alone with drugs or alcohol (although it is true that families are often quite seriously affected). But I do agree that drug and alchohol addicts can recover and heal themselves and also repair their relationships. I am proud of those who do stop using drugs.

But a person who buys another person to act out some sex fantasy is harming others. It is no secret that most sex offenders target extremely young people. Those who can't afford four grand per night simply take a young person or child and assault them. I honestly cannot care about the sex fantasies of a person who will have sex with a child. It happens all the time; lots of prostitutes are children who are forced into it, and I want those men prosecuted. Sex addict counseling is not going to stop men from thinking they have the right to sexually assault any young person they see. Women who encourage it by saying it's ok, so long as enough cash changes hands, are not helping to stop the violence against women and children. Selling your body makes men think that all young people are for sale. Or rent. Or free for the taking.

Sex is beautiful. Buying and selling human beings is not.

I see that you have a problem with prostitution - many people do, so I can respect that. Also, you have a problem with young people being sexually assaulted. So do I.

But prostitution and sexual assault of young people are two very separate issues and I have read nothing about Elliott assaulting a young person. Adult women offered to have sex with him for money and he paid their price and availed himself of their services.

I also understand and appreciate that you want to be kind about drug addiction but please do not fool yourself that drug addicts harm only themselves. We never harm only ourselves - ask anyone who loves and cares about us. Additionally, beyond the personal pain we wreak on our families and friends when we pursue substances, we cause pain to society. We steal. We con. We make the market for the men on the streets with guns (who often use children in their line of work) who control the dope.

In my opinion, drug addiction causes more pain and pestilence in this world than just about any other thing I can think of.

 

[Truly]

Truly,
hi. I have to disagree with you about men who pay for not being addicts. Sexual addiction is a very real thing and I have no doubt that some men get addicted to hookers.

Maybe it's the thrill of doing something illegal or the sneaking around that without getting caught that drives an addicted person.
Now, I'm not saying all men who pay for hookers are addicts but I'm sure some are.

That's the key right there. Illegal. I don't care how much of a thrill any sex offender gets. Lock them up. Why are people cutting Spitzer slack? I bet half the people who are discussed on these threads got some thrill out their illegal raping and murdering infants and little kids. Should they all get to go to some fancy addiction center instead of prison? Not in my opinion.

 

[SewingDeb]

Here's some interesting reading on sex addiction:

http://www.medicinenet.com/sexual_addiction/article.htm

I, personally, don't think once a month qualifies as a sex addiction. I watched a documentary on sex addiction and they would have sex 5 or 6 times a day with men or women...didn't matter. They couldn't hold down jobs because all they could do was find the next sex partner.

Spitzer does not appear to have that problem.