NY - Karina Vetrano, 30, found murdered, Queens, 2 Aug 2016 #2

[FindHG]

That is interesting. If you were hanging out in the park on an August day, you'd probably want to be in the shade. (I'm still hanging on to the theory the perp was hanging out in the park that day.)

And, if you're texting like Karina was, it's easier to see your phone in the shade than in the bright sunlight.

jmo

You're right, Inthedetails, that makes so much sense.

 

[ThinkHard]

I know we know she was texting....but it seems so odd. If she was a serious runner wouldn't she be so focused on her run she wouldn't stop and text?

In the VM thread we had a whole conversation about how if your a runner you know never to stop and talk to another runner on a run because of how focused they are and in breaks their stride and focus etc.

So it just seems weird that someone who took running seriousness enough to be doing it everyday would even bother to check there phone in the middle of a run.

Just seems really bizarre to me.

 

[Mainely16]

I don't see why that is considered so strange. Maybe she was waiting to hear from someone, heard her phone go off and slowed down or took a pause to check her phone. It's been really hot so it's well within the realm of possibility that she would take a brief pause/walk to communicate with a friend. She wasn't in the middle of the Iron Man...or Woman?

 

[ThinkHard]

I don't see why that is considered so strange. Maybe she was waiting to hear from someone, heard her phone go off and slowed down or took a pause to check her phone. It's been really hot so it's well within the realm of possibility that she would take a brief pause/walk to communicate with a friend. She wasn't in the middle of the Iron Man...or Woman?

That's kind of my point. If your going out for a run your not going to be focused on your phone....UNLESS....you are expecting someone to be contacting you....or perhaps unless you had some drama going on in your life that your dealing with.

If your going out for your daily run though, most runners is think aren't gonna worry about slowing down and checking their phone in the middle of it....they'd be more likely to just wait till they are done with the run rather then break up their workout.

I mean maybe she was such a SM addict she couldn't go 5 minutes without checking her phone....who knows.

But it seems to me the only reason someone who is a regular runner can't go for the whole run without texting away or even taking out their phone at all....would be if they were expecting to be in contact with someone.

Which makes me wonder if she was either worried about something, or was expecting to meet someone.

 

[Lauranyc83]

That's kind of my point. If your going out for a run your not going to be focused on your phone....UNLESS....you are expecting someone to be contacting you....or perhaps unless you had some drama going on in your life that your dealing with.

If your going out for your daily run though, most runners is think aren't gonna worry about slowing down and checking their phone in the middle of it....they'd be more likely to just wait till they are done with the run rather then break up their workout.

I mean maybe she was such a SM addict she couldn't go 5 minutes without checking her phone....who knows.

But it seems to me the only reason someone who is a regular runner can't go for the whole run without texting away or even taking out their phone at all....would be if they were expecting to be in contact with someone.

Which makes me wonder if she was either worried about something, or was expecting to meet someone.

Many runners look at their phone to switch music. She could of been looking for a song to put on and saw that a friend texted her and was replying back. Not all runners will not look at their phone. If KV was just going for a casual jog that day and not trying to beat any goals she had set, then I don't see why looking at her phone to text or do whatever would seem odd.

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[Inthedetails]

Many runners look at their phone to switch music. She could of been looking for a song to put on and saw that a friend texted her and was replying back. Not all runners will not look at their phone. If KV was just going for a casual jog that day and not trying to beat any goals she had set, then I don't see why looking at her phone to text or do whatever would seem odd.

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Right. The facts are that Karina was an avid runner and that she texted that day on her run. She did both - she ran and she texted at least once on that run.

I'm guessing she texted only once - perhaps during a "cool down" walk section of the run. IDK.

jmo

 

[Lauranyc83]

Right. The facts are that Karina was an avid runner and that she texted that day on her run. She did both - she ran and she texted at least once on that run.

I'm guessing she texted only once - perhaps during a "cool down" walk section of the run. IDK.

jmo

She may have always texted her best friend during her runs. I know that when I go on long bike rides I stop to answer my best friend at times. I'm not attached to my phone but I would take a break to stop and answer. You are right, she may have been on her cool down part of her jog/run. She may have been walking at that point instead of running. We still don't know time of death.

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[OldSteve]

Another thing about those trees, especially if this was the only place like it along her run - would be a where perp might et up some kind of trip line across her path, and once tripped hits her with the rock...... okay, maybe too far fetched....; simpler would be the tree provided shadows and a place for the perp to to hide behind...

Something interesting too, for KV living in this large pop have 100 or so tips to LE, whereas in the small town for Vanessa Marcotte there's over a 1000.

 

[OldSteve]

Regarding the tip difference between KV and VM -

I think ThinkHard has the answer, as mentioned on VM thread:

Respectfully snipped:

........

Granted that is still much smaller then the vast population of NYC. But as "neighborhoody" as NYC can feel like, people are also greatly disconnected as well. Where as in this area everyone in the Wachusett district feels a personal connection and a personal violation of the safe little hamlets in regards to this crime. And i think that sense of community is a large part of why you see so many tips.

 

[Inthedetails]

Regarding the tip difference between KV and VM -

I think ThinkHard has the answer, as mentioned on VM thread:

Respectfully snipped:

I think the lack of tips in Queens is because nobody saw anything. Simple as that.

I do think someone has suspicions, though, and is not coming forward because the suspect is a loved one. But other than that, I don't think anyone has anything to report because the crime was done in such isolation and out of the area where most people in the neighborhood spend time.

That old-school neighborhood in Queens is quite close-knit, imo. I don't think it's a case of being disconnected from neighbors, with respect to differing opinions about it.

 

[epiphany]

One thing that seemed obvious to me from the onset is that the sense of community in Howard Beach NYC appears to be incredibly strong

 

[Lauranyc83]

One thing that seemed obvious to me from the onset is that the sense of community in Howard Beach NYC appears to be incredibly strong

You are correct, it is!

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[Lauranyc83]

Going back to the community meeting, I was watching a live facebook feed of it and I thought it was interesting when a police officer involved in the investigation stated they found something (evidence) in the area but would not state what it was in case the suspect was watching this footage. They did not want the perp to know what they found. I'm still very curious as to what this evidence is. I don't believe it was DNA because at that point they already stated they found DNA. Here is a snip from an article for reference to my comment.

"During a recent community meeting, a high-ranking police official told residents asking questions about the safety of their neighborhood that he understood their concerns but “refused to give up what he had” in case the killer was watching footage of that meeting or following media reports."
http://pix11.com/2016/08/18/karina-vetrano-howard-beach-jogger/


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[FindHG]

You are correct, it is!

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I don't doubt that at all, Lauranyc83. Could it also possibly be simply culture and location too, not to in any way denigrate anywhere else, but New Yorkers are a tad more hardened to see past their fears re the ~1000 tips verses ~122?

What seems unbelievable to me is that there could be such a blind spot, in that location in such a busy city, that nothing from around there caught anyone moving around the area during that afternoon and evening, to give some idea of where to look.

The sketch was a result of a witness coming forward and others witnesses seeing the sketch guy too. Cars with camera's, taxis, LE vehicles, helicopters, drones, tall buildings, other places in that area may have caught something, just nobody has looked for it. If anything, you would probably have more people wracking their brains and helping spread the word for that kind of information in a smaller area, or somehow word would more easily make it to the specific people who could have picked up some clue, the way it did to the jogger with the injured leg who came forward.

 

[Inthedetails]

I don't doubt that at all. Could it also possibly be that simply culture too, not to in any way denigrate anywhere else, but New Yorkers are a tad more hardened to see past their fears.

Maybe, but I also think anyone in that neighborhood would want to help a 911 rescue worker. Seriously - that would be an honor to do, imo.

However, I also think the hard- attitude of the parents might have scared off a tipster who suspected their family member. It would be hard to turn over a boyfriend, brother, friend when someone is calling out insults to the perp. I know many people like that hard stance, but I'm not so into it.

I think *one* tip could solve this.

jmo

 

[FindHG]

Maybe, but I also think anyone in that neighborhood would want to help a 911 rescue worker. Seriously - that would be an honor to do, imo.

However, I also think the hard- attitude of the parents might have scared off a tipster who suspected their family member. It would be hard to turn over a boyfriend, brother, friend when someone is calling out insults to the perp. I know many people like that hard stance, but I'm not so into it.

I think *one* tip could solve this.

jmo

I agree you with about the tip, and I completely agree with you about how New Yorkers step up for each other. How you saw that was not where I was going. Sorry to not be more clear.

The parents' appeal seems just as natural to me. It may or may not resonate with somebody who knows the perp in the wrong way. Keeping such information is morally reprehensible.

My impression of friends and family who help with identifying a perp, as observed here on WS through a limited number of cases, would be that the people who speak up do it as a result of their own moral core. It would have to be somebody who values their own morality, living with what they know, more than the perp's well being, it seems to me.

Absolutely, "*one* tip could solve this."

 

[ninij9]

Maybe, but I also think anyone in that neighborhood would want to help a 911 rescue worker. Seriously - that would be an honor to do, imo.

However, I also think the hard- attitude of the parents might have scared off a tipster who suspected their family member. It would be hard to turn over a boyfriend, brother, friend when someone is calling out insults to the perp. I know many people like that hard stance, but I'm not so into it.

I think *one* tip could solve this.

jmo

I found the parents attitude refreshing. They empowered themselves. They refused to be further victimized. They are strong. They are angry. They are forceful. And they will see justice done for Karina. I was upset on SM to see azzhat trolls call Mom a bi**h. I am of Italian descent and I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, Corona (well it WAS an Italian enclave back in the day), and the parents attitude is very natural to me. But an Italian Mom from Queens isn't going to be meek and quiet. They are mother Bears, ferociously loud.

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[FindHG]

I found the parents attitude refreshing. They empowered themselves. They refused to be further victimized. They are strong. They are angry. They are forceful. And they will see justice done for Karina. I was upset on SM to see azzhat trolls call Mom a bi**h. I am of Italian descent and I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, Corona (well it WAS an Italian enclave back in the day), and the parents attitude is very natural to me. But an Italian Mom from Queens isn't going to be meek and quiet. They are mother Bears, ferociously loud.

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They are being true to themselves which under the circumstances is admirable of the Vetranos and all who rally for justice for Karina, I agree. I recall people being down on other families who came out just as strong for justice.

It should count for nothing, what bickering snickering people think or how murders of women get dragged into other issues, it seems to me.

A predator who chooses to torment, rape and murder women has forfeit civility and will always be a knuckle dragging flawed pathetic = (***kless) cagey little freak who failed at life, it seems to me.

Awareness is what seems to me to really matter, people caring enough to be aware and making the call that will count.

BTW, Inthedetails and thread posters, thank you very much for being so engaged for Karina. I appreciate and am honored to share your well intended and considered thoughts.

View attachment 101006

Another thing about those trees, especially if this was the only place like it along her run - would be a where perp might et up some kind of trip line across her path, and once tripped hits her with the rock...... okay, maybe too far fetched....; simpler would be the tree provided shadows and a place for the perp to to hide behind...

Something interesting too, for KV living in this large pop have 100 or so tips to LE, whereas in the small town for Vanessa Marcotte there's over a 1000.

:bump:

 

[Inthedetails]

I found the parents attitude refreshing. They empowered themselves. They refused to be further victimized. They are strong. They are angry. They are forceful. And they will see justice done for Karina. I was upset on SM to see azzhat trolls call Mom a bi**h. I am of Italian descent and I grew up in an Italian neighborhood, Corona (well it WAS an Italian enclave back in the day), and the parents attitude is very natural to me. But an Italian Mom from Queens isn't going to be meek and quiet. They are mother Bears, ferociously loud.

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FWIW, the mother can behave in whatever way she wants. I don't fault her for who she is. I just don't know it will result in a convincing a hesitant person to make a tip.

I come from a completely different culture known for being overly stoic...and the criticism is that we're cold, unfeeling, and clannish, which is not true. I would not criticize another culture for what comes naturally to them. Again, I just don't think the outbursts were helpful in garnering tips....but then again, I don't think there are many tips to garner.

jmopinion, not shared by all.

 

[ninij9]

FWIW, the mother can behave in whatever way she wants. I don't fault her for who she is. I just don't know it will result in a convincing a hesitant person to make a tip.

I come from a completely different culture known for being overly stoic...and the criticism is that we're cold, unfeeling, and clannish, which is not true. I would not criticize another culture for what comes naturally to them. Again, I just don't think the outbursts were helpful in garnering tips....but then again, I don't think there are many tips to garner.

jmopinion, not shared by all.

I appreciate the stoic culture as well. My mother is Austrian. Completely opposite from my Italian father's side. They would be silent and leave things up to LE and would consider any public outcry to be in bad taste. I agree with all ways. I was just feeling badly for how many people hated on mom. And I so wasn't implying you were saying that. I'm sorry if I wasn't clear on it. I have a 20 year old daughter and this case has crawled up inside of me and has me by the guts. I am sick over it.

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