NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #10

[scandi]

Here is what I have:
1. Maureen Brainard Barnes
2. Amber Lynn Costello
3. Megan Waterman
4. Melissa Barthelemey
5. Jessica Taylor (Partial remains in LI - torso found in Manorville)
6. UID Asian Male (dressed in women's clothing)
7. UID Female - Jane Doe #6; Head, Right foot and Hands found 4/14/11; OTHER body parts of Jane Doe #6 found in Manorville 2/19/2000.
8. 18 - 24 month old toddler female (found wrapped in blanket)
9. UID Mother of toddler girl
10. UID body - found 4/11/11 - Parts matched legs found in garbage bag which was found on Fire Island in 1996!!!

This was from a list I have been collecting, and a wiki site....
Long Island serial killer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I liked this list as so much info is packed into it.

ADD: Jessica Taylor ~ her Head, Hands and Forearm were found in the brush off OP. From this link: http://www.longislandpress.com/2011/05/10/linking-the-manorville-and-gilgo-homicides/:

' . . . Taylor’s head, hands and forearm were found together on March 29, 2011 on Ocean Parkway.'

' . . . The woman’s head, { Jane Doe 6 - my entry} hands and leg were also reportedly in a plastic bag when police found them on April 4, 2011 on Ocean Parkway.'

Simply amazing. Killed 3 years apart, 3 partial remains taken from each, one bag holding the 3 partial remains for each lady. Then these 2 bags of partial remains found in the Spring of 2011, respectively 7 and 10 years after their deaths. Torsos found in same area of Manorville and partial remains found tossed in the brush off OP in the area where 4 other bodies are discovered.

I think it was the same guy, getting old. WOW, that is some killer article, eh?


Gee, that makes me wonder if there is another torso at Manorville that hasn't been discovered yet, maybe from 2006 or 2007 to complete a trio. Some SK's think that way. Of course that would mean there would have to be another plastic bag off OP, each with 3 partial remains - too far fetched to even think about now, but food for thought when looking at this killer IMO.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

With all these body parts and on top of that different bodies mixed together, this case becomes very complicated to follow indeed.

But the only commonalities between ALL of these remains are the choice of Ocean Parkway as a dumpsite. Let's not forget that some of these remains were found at Jones Beach, so someone could reasonably argue that they all don't even share a dumpsite, you know? It's not like all the remains were dumped right on top of each other.

We have the GB4 which are identical in manner of death, manner of disposal, occupation, and body type, all disposed of very close to one another and 500 feet apart from the next. Clearly they are related.

We have a 2 year old child wrapped in a blanket, whom LE tells us appeared to have died a natural death. If that's the case, and the mother's dismembered remains were found in 2 different location, it seems logical to me that this child was left alive, and later died, where it was found off Ocean Parkway. It stretches the bounds of logic to think the child died a natural death somewhere else, and someone then murdered and dismembered the mother, and then decided to carry the dead child along for the disposal ride. JMO

We have a male transvestite who died from head trauma.

And we have partial remains that connect to Manorville, and partial remains that connect to Fire Island.

No way in hell all these murders are related to each other, so I'm not going to drive myself crazy over the details of each. The basic gist of who, and what, was found where is good enough for me.

Again, all just MOO.

 

[scandi]

With all these body parts and on top of that different bodies mixed together, this case becomes very complicated to follow indeed.

For sure Redbird. And LE has no idea as to the ID of 2 bodies found {acc to that article above}. :banghead:

Have we zoned in on what the main object was for the LE presser? I only heard parts of it and am wondering if they gave a clue as to what kind of info they think the public can give them.

 

[scandi]

But the only commonalities between ALL of these remains are the choice of Ocean Parkway as a dumpsite. Let's not forget that some of these remains were found at Jones Beach, so someone could reasonably argue that they all don't even share a dumpsite, you know? It's not like all the remains were dumped right on top of each other.

We have the GB4 which are identical in manner of death, manner of disposal, occupation, and body type, all disposed of very close to one another and 500 feet apart from the next. Clearly they are related.

We have a 2 year old child wrapped in a blanket, whom LE tells us appeared to have died a natural death. If that's the case, and the mother's dismembered remains were found in 2 different location, it seems logical to me that this child was left alive, and later died, where it was found off Ocean Parkway. It stretches the bounds of logic to think the child died a natural death somewhere else, and someone then murdered and dismembered the mother, and then decided to carry the dead child along for the disposal ride. JMO

We have a male transvestite who died from head trauma.

And we have partial remains that connect to Manorville, and partial remains that connect to Fire Island.

No way in hell all these murders are related to each other, so I'm not going to drive myself crazy over the details of each. The basic gist of who, and what, was found where is good enough for me.

Again, all just MOO.

Excellent breakdown Kat, Out of the 10 remains found only 5 have been ID'ed.

I keep wondering if there are similarities in the plastic bags or anything else found in the bags for those 3 partial remains sacks {including the legs from Fire Island}?

 

[Peter Brendt]

What do we have about CPH's family? There is a daughter, I think now in Arizona. Any sons on the East Coast?

 

[scandi]

Thanks, guys! For some reason, I thought the mother of Baby Girl Doe was found in Manorville.

So, the two I was missing are:

Jane Doe 9 - Skull and bag of bones found in OB (legs washed ashore in Davis Park, Fire Island). This is possibly the individual LE is currently putting together a composite sketch for.

Jane Doe 10 - The mother of Baby Girl Doe

And adding to my info on Jane Doe 6 - only her partial remains were found on Oak Beach. Her torso was located in the same Manorville area as Jessica Taylor's torso.

Correct on all points? (just thank the post if I've finally got it)

ETA: On Jane Doe 6...how can they state when she was last seen if they don't know who she is?!

Hi Kat, I read they did a reconstruction on her which is done from the skull. Someone must have recognized seeing her but they didn't know who she was.

 

[scandi]

What do we have about CPH's family? There is a daughter, I think now in Arizona. Any sons on the East Coast?

Hi Peter, I don't know except at first we kept running into another CPH spelled a bit differently who we thought was a son. Not sure about that and Google is no help. His wife has been very active in that little community.

When it is late and I can't go to sleep I often go read the comments on articles. Very Interesting. Our resident expert on the Dr is Truthspider and he/she will hopefully know your answer.

 

[truthspider]

Is it just me, or does this sound alot like scars from a fasciotomy?

Press reports from April 1996 indicate that two severed legs were found on the shores of Davis Park, on Fire Island, by two seasonal residents walking along the beach. The toenails of one foot were painted red and the right leg had 3 1/2-inch scar on the rear calf and L-shaped scar on the shin. The left leg had a 3 1/2-inch scar on the inner side.
http://online.wsj.com/article/APa81752157568471e9b091564c631f970.html

funny, this is the 2nd result when you google "fasciotomy"

Acute compartment syndrome occurs as a complication of an injury. Often it is due to a fracture of the radius or ulna in the forearm or the tibia and fibula in the lower leg that causes significant bleeding in one or more of the compartments. Bleeding can also be due to a badly bruised muscle. Crush injuries may cause both bleeding and swelling of a muscle.

Some injuries can be more subtle. If a person is incapacitated and immobile for a prolonged period of time, for example, due to alcohol or drug intoxication, swelling or muscle damage may occur because a blood vessel was compressed. The weight of an object (or the weight of the body itself) compressing a muscle group can cause rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown).

Compartment swelling may occur if blood supply is re-established (reperfusion swelling) to an area that has lost it for a period of time. Two examples are: 1) a person is in an auto accident and their legs are trapped and compressed with heavy debris, and are subsequently freed from the debris after a period of time; 2) when a blood vessel is damaged and subsequently repaired through surgery."



I guess I shouldn't note that coincidence, it must just be me looking at this case with "tunnel vision" lol. :floorlaugh:

One of the male victims in Manorville also had metal surgical staples in his body, don't know if they said where. Sounds like the SK may have been scouting for victims at his amputee coalition meetings? (peer support group) Sounds like a good reason to get rid of those legs back in 1996, too bad they washed up in my backyard. There is something disturbing that has never occurred to me, when this case is concluded, if the SK is indeed who I believe it is, it shouldn't surprise us if there are Hollywood like gory details involving the SK and his interest in certain medical conditions, after all, he is an ER surgeon, with a specific medical condition of his own that may have piqued his curiosity.

 

[truthspider]

Hi Peter, I don't know except at first we kept running into another CPH spelled a bit differently who we thought was a son. Not sure about that and Google is no help. His wife has been very active in that little community.

When it is late and I can't go to sleep I often go read the comments on articles. Very Interesting. Our resident expert on the Dr is Truthspider and he/she will hopefully know your answer.

The truth is I went way beyond what is acceptable sleuthing on him and his whole family. I don't feel good about some of the ways I investigated them and won't publicly post about it or my findings on here. If you have specific questions I will most likely answer them over PM.

Things I have already stated here on WS include: there are 3 children: 2 girls and 1 boy. Too many details of their lives are "out there" to be found if you know how to search. They all work for or have worked for and have a strong interest in State, County, and National Parks. (So does the person dumping bodies in NY) None of them display in any way a relation to their father. Some of them display a relation to "that other guy" that association insiders say was having an affair with the Mrs. There is a pattern of the children moving to the other side of the country when they reach adulthood. Details including dates and locations of some of the stops along the cross country trip are exhibited (pun intended).

Some food for thought, does anyone on here (if you live in the US only, on a coast preferably) know of anyone they have ever met who drove across the country, only to turn around and come back? I know a decent number of people who have made the one way 4 day journey before, but I have never heard of someone who did it, only to turn around and drive back. Seems more common to drive 1 way and fly back, rent a car or something. That man sure can drive distances. Makes me think an overnight trip to AC, Poughkeepsie, or Hartford, CT and back would be nothing to him.

Oh, and I am a "he" but I'm sure you could all tell that by my furry wrists gripping my periscope in my old profile pic.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Truthspider thanks for all that you are doing but i still say...so? Im still leaning towards this all being a coincidence that really looks like guilt but it isnt. It happens a lot. Howevver, at the rate you are going you just might discover info that would e hard to rationalize or dispute.

 

[truthspider]

Truthspider thanks for all that you are doing but i still say...so? Im still leaning towards this all being a coincidence that really looks like guilt but it isnt. It happens a lot. Howevver, at the rate you are going you just might discover info that would e hard to rationalize or dispute.

If I picked this suspect out of a hat, I agree it would be coincidence, but we didn't. He is 1 of 3 men directly tied to the May 1st incident, but is the only one of them who refuses to take a poly, changed his alibi multiple times, lied to everyone for a prolonged period of time, can be connected to the areas of the dump sites, and whose parameters fit that of the SK: classic post crime behavior, age, intellect, capacity, knowledge of le tactics, etc.

do you really still say "so"?

if you are approaching this investigation with the premise that the SK could be any man in a 200 mile radius of NYC, that's your business. I don't believe that to be necessary.

 

[nugzter]

ETA: Nutzger has a timeline for the GB4 (plus SG) ready to go. We could use that as a starting point in the new thread. Work our way out, like we did in the beginning, before we got so far afield.

The time line is up on the GB4 and SG Thread. Enjoy!!!

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

If I picked this suspect out of a hat, I agree it would be coincidence, but we didn't. He is 1 of 3 men directly tied to the May 1st incident, but is the only one of them who refuses to take a poly, changed his alibi multiple times, lied to everyone for a prolonged period of time, can be connected to the areas of the dump sites, and whose parameters fit that of the SK: classic post crime behavior, age, intellect, capacity, knowledge of le tactics, etc.

do you really still say "so"?

if you are approaching this investigation with the premise that the SK could be any man in a 200 mile radius of NYC, that's your business. I don't believe that to be necessary.

He refused to take a poly?

Okay you have painted a clearer picture for me ajd made it more concise. I no longer will say so. If you know this much how much more does le know? Not enough for an arrest or conviction

Do you think cph has or is acting alone? Please forgive punctuation and things im typing from nook which can be sort of a nuisance

 

[waltzingmatilda]

The truth is I went way beyond what is acceptable sleuthing on him and his whole family. I don't feel good about some of the ways I investigated them and won't publicly post about it or my findings on here. If you have specific questions I will most likely answer them over PM.

Things I have already stated here on WS include: there are 3 children: 2 girls and 1 boy. Too many details of their lives are "out there" to be found if you know how to search. They all work for or have worked for and have a strong interest in State, County, and National Parks. (So does the person dumping bodies in NY) None of them display in any way a relation to their father. Some of them display a relation to "that other guy" that association insiders say was having an affair with the Mrs. There is a pattern of the children moving to the other side of the country when they reach adulthood. Details including dates and locations of some of the stops along the cross country trip are exhibited (pun intended).

Some food for thought, does anyone on here (if you live in the US only, on a coast preferably) know of anyone they have ever met who drove across the country, only to turn around and come back? I know a decent number of people who have made the one way 4 day journey before, but I have never heard of someone who did it, only to turn around and drive back. Seems more common to drive 1 way and fly back, rent a car or something. That man sure can drive distances. Makes me think an overnight trip to AC, Poughkeepsie, or Hartford, CT and back would be nothing to him.

Oh, and I am a "he" but I'm sure you could all tell that by my furry wrists gripping my periscope in my old profile pic.

truthspider, You make a very good point. We have driven cross country from the east coast (NC) to Vegas. It is a loooong and tiring trip. The first leg (no pun intended) of our journey was 9 hours from NC to AL where we stopped to visit relatives. The 2nd day, we drove from AL to EL Reno, OK
where we stopped overnight. The 3rd day we drove from El Reno to Flagstaff AZ where we stopped overnight so that we could see the Grand Canyon before proceeding on to Vegas. It was a marathon drive and I cannot imagine turning around and traveling back immediately. I suspect the drive would take longer from LI but I'm not good with mapping so IDK.

I wonder if CPH and daughter traveled in separate vehicles to AZ since she was moving there. Wouldn't she need her own vehicle in AZ and wouldn't he need a vehicle for return travel to Oak beach?

Just thinkin' and typin'.

BTW, Yep, your furry wrists pretty much gave you away!:floorlaugh:

MOo

wm

 

[Mountain_Kat]

funny, this is the 2nd result when you google "fasciotomy"

Acute compartment syndrome occurs as a complication of an injury. Often it is due to a fracture of the radius or ulna in the forearm or the tibia and fibula in the lower leg that causes significant bleeding in one or more of the compartments. Bleeding can also be due to a badly bruised muscle. Crush injuries may cause both bleeding and swelling of a muscle.

Some injuries can be more subtle. If a person is incapacitated and immobile for a prolonged period of time, for example, due to alcohol or drug intoxication, swelling or muscle damage may occur because a blood vessel was compressed. The weight of an object (or the weight of the body itself) compressing a muscle group can cause rhabdomyolysis (muscle breakdown).

Compartment swelling may occur if blood supply is re-established (reperfusion swelling) to an area that has lost it for a period of time. Two examples are: 1) a person is in an auto accident and their legs are trapped and compressed with heavy debris, and are subsequently freed from the debris after a period of time; 2) when a blood vessel is damaged and subsequently repaired through surgery."



I guess I shouldn't note that coincidence, it must just be me looking at this case with "tunnel vision" lol. :floorlaugh:

One of the male victims in Manorville also had metal surgical staples in his body, don't know if they said where. Sounds like the SK may have been scouting for victims at his amputee coalition meetings? (peer support group) Sounds like a good reason to get rid of those legs back in 1996, too bad they washed up in my backyard. There is something disturbing that has never occurred to me, when this case is concluded, if the SK is indeed who I believe it is, it shouldn't surprise us if there are Hollywood like gory details involving the SK and his interest in certain medical conditions, after all, he is an ER surgeon, with a specific medical condition of his own that may have piqued his curiosity.

My first thought was that she was a jogger or an athlete.

 

[truthspider]

He refused to take a poly?

Okay you have painted a clearer picture for me ajd made it more concise. I no longer will say so. If you know this much how much more does le know? Not enough for an arrest or conviction

Do you think cph has or is acting alone? Please forgive punctuation and things im typing from nook which can be sort of a nuisance

Yes, though I think he may have manipulated JB during the May 1st incident, and acted as a drug provider, or john via proxy, or both.

When i say john via proxy, I mean JB pimped SG to doc for an hour because CPH motivated him to do so, MP's statements back this up somewhat, as do the calls to a 24 hr pharmacy. If this is the case then during the initial missing persons investigation, JB would likely lie to LE and not mention his own criminal act and CPH, afterall it was a mere missing persons case and JB wouldn't suspect murder.

Then comes Dec. 10th and the 4 bodies and JB would quickly change his tune to the police, spill the beans and begin really cooperating, but obviously JB would not be able to talk to the public about the investigation, and since he has "skin in the game" (LE has him by the B's) obeys the gag order and doesn't mention CPH to the public during the investigation. But the Gilbert family who around April 10th or shortly after, lose their patience and throw CPH's name into the public (the damming phone call) for the first time, likely due to the traumatic nature of the discovery of so many additional remains.

This would certainly explain JB's statements and demeanor, "the truth will come out" (and the holy **** this can't be really happening attitude)

I think we have a good chance of actually connecting the SK to this new jane dough with the scars on her legs, possibly his first victim, as I don't think he conveniently ran across someone who shares his predicament in the anonymous world of prostitutes. But sadly, even connecting him to her, (if say they were in rehab or a peer group together, or he was her ER doc) may not be enough to bring him to trial. It would force the sane members of society to recognize him as an SK, but there is still a very good chance of a legal stalemate. :sick:

 

[truthspider]

My first thought was that she was a jogger or an athlete.

our SK has never shown signs of targeting athletic people if you know what I mean. Was she a small statured, drug addicted, athletic/intense runner, who painted her toe nails red?

hmmm, the runner part doesn't really fit too well, it's also much less common that the surgery would be necessary for someone with sports induced chronic compartment syndrome.

"Chronic compartment syndrome occurs because of excessive exercise, where repetitive motion and muscle use cause localized swelling and irritation. Most often, symptoms in the legs are seen with runners and bicyclists and in the arms of swimmers. Symptoms resolve with rest and very rarely progress to an acute limb threatening situation."


Maybe CPH thinks his leg could have been saved if he was given a fasciotomy?
Maybe CPH performed her fasciotomy in the ER then years later took her life.
The legs in Davis Park had scars on both legs, sounds like the woman was in a serious accident and her legs were saved thanks to the fasciotomy.

Hmmm, imagine that, you have both your legs because they were saved by an emergency opertion (fasciotomy), only to have them later cut off by a SK for convenience of discarding your body? THAT IS IRONIC!!! or really unlucky, or it wasn't a coincidence......

 

[Mountain_Kat]

our SK has never shown signs of targeting athletic people if you know what I mean. Was she a small statured, drug addicted, athletic/intense runner, who painted her toe nails red?

hmmm, the runner part doesn't really fit too well, it's also much less common that the surgery would be necessary for someone with sports induced chronic compartment syndrome.

"Chronic compartment syndrome occurs because of excessive exercise, where repetitive motion and muscle use cause localized swelling and irritation. Most often, symptoms in the legs are seen with runners and bicyclists and in the arms of swimmers. Symptoms resolve with rest and very rarely progress to an acute limb threatening situation."


Maybe CPH thinks his leg could have been saved if he was given a fasciotomy?
Maybe CPH performed her fasciotomy in the ER then years later took her life.
The legs in Davis Park had scars on both legs, sounds like the woman was in a serious accident and her legs were saved thanks to the fasciotomy.

Hmmm, imagine that, you have both your legs because they were saved by an emergency opertion (fasciotomy), only to have them later cut off by a SK for convenience of discarding your body? THAT IS IRONIC!!! or really unlucky, or it wasn't a coincidence......

First of all, I don't know who our "sk" is or who he targets. Your theory is that our "sk" is one guy who committed all these murders...I don't neccesarily share that theory. Therefore, I can't say with any certainty that our Jane Doe with the scars is a victim of the GB4 killer, or the Manorville killer either, for that matter. So to say "our sk" is a misnomer, to my way of thinking.

Secondly, fasciotomy is a fairly common surgical treatment for athletes with CECS, but I won't argue the point. We don't even know whether or not these scars are from a fasciotomy. I was simply wondering aloud.

 

[Peter Brendt]

I just had a phone call with one of my research experts. But the result is inconclusive. The scars can be from a fasciotomy, but don't have to (obviously, there are other possibilities, but he can't say without images or hanving seen them). So ... dead end here for now.

 

[inspctrgadget]

Truthspider,

Your research is very good. For me, you gave some additional weight to your theory with your insight that CPH likely traveled to the executive air park from East Moriches during a traumatizing event, although I still question whether the two sets of bodies are related. This may be a piece of good info that even the po po aren't aware of, and you might want to share the insight. If the travel route can be confirmed by coworkers, that might be useful in a prosecution.

Speaking with a police officer last weekend, I was told that bodies are literally all over the place. The officer recounted a development project in Brooklyn where construction had to be repeatedly stopped as bodies were continually discovered, allowing time for the police to come in, collect the bodies and look for evidence - obviously to the irritation of the construction workers and project developers. So even though the GB4 and the Manorville bodies were found nearby, and even though some of the victims had a common lifestyle, it does not mean to me that they are related given the population density on LI. If there were only 30,000 people on LI, I would say they are likely related.

I'm curious as to your theory for the night of SG's disappearance. What do you think happened? Was CPH walking his dog? Did SG knock on CPH's door? Was he out driving around, and if so, what did he see? What did he do? Where did he go?

I ask this because I'm really interested in your ideas, but I still have a hard time believing that CPH had the opportunity. My theory is still that the SK witnessed some portion of SG's flight from JB's house. I also believe that in order to have the opportunity, the SK would need to be single and living alone, not married with a wife and kids sleeping at home.

My suspect (not CPH) is apparently single and had a 360 degree view of the entire scene from GC's front stoop all the way to JB's house (and even to CPH's house). There have also been similar unsolved serial killings in areas where they have previously lived. I could mention that a relative lived on the north fork and therefore this person was likely familiar with Halsey Manor Rd., but as mentioned I'm not sure that GB4 and Manorville are related.

I also don't get your theory that somehow SG was disposed of on CPH's ride out west. I've taken long trips with parents, and I would have noticed a strange cooler with a bad odor that dad didn't want me opening or going near. What's your take on how he would have concealed this from his daughter? Sounds far fetched.

Anyway, keep up the good work.