NY-LI 10 bodies found on Beach-Poss. SrlKlr-12/10-4 id'd; more found 3/11 #9

[shadowraiths]

Hi Goathairjones, There was a discussion by LI locals in the comment section of an article {I think} where they discussed this in full. And what it came down to is because there are different LE districts in that area responding to calls they have guidelines on who responds when. And the dispatcher had to contact the Marine Police {?} that night to go to Oak Beach and it took an extra 20+ min or so for them to get there.

Maybe a local here will remember that discussion. I think I'm close but maybe not exact. LOL

Not a local but... is this the discussion you are referring to? [ame=http://www.theschwartzreport.com/vb/showthread.php?p=416827#post416827]link[/ame]

 

[Redbird]

Responding to goathairjones regarding the first responders and to Chanler regarding Shannan's possession of her phone:

I found the same information shadowraiths linked to at

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/missing-woman-s-kin-cop-response-not-quick-1.2546076?qr=1

You have to have a subscription to read the whole thing but you can find it at

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10497.0

It says police marine authorities were the ones who responded to the call.

This site also has several quotes by LE (not Shannan's family) about Shannan leaving the house with the phone, running along with the phone and "Suffolk police described the 911 call Gilbert made, though they did not release it. Talking to a Suffolk dispatcher, Gilbert "intimates that she's being threatened," McCarthy said.

The Project Jason site has a lot of good information.

 

[KPCrimeNY]

Is anyone else thinking what I'm thinking?

KPCrimeNY asked why would the SK just be hanging out in the OBI parking lot and why wouldn't SG just run away?

I think the answer is clear. IMOO, our SK either works for the Town of Babylon as a Public Safety Officer, Marine Patrol Officer or Park Ranger (as described on the Town website) or he is one of those wanna-be-cop losers who drives a vehicle that makes him look like law enforcement (and even wears the fake uniform to make his fantasy/obsession even more realistic.

Either scenario would provide a boat load of answers/explanations!

I snipped for space......
I will take my $100,000 pay pal or check! :rocker:
I could buy into this. But, I am going to do a little research and post a new reply with something I thought of later. Thanks SeaSlug. Not used to being called a genius...lol

"Surveillance cameras also give imperative clues in cases such as missing persons, and/or unsolved deaths. Seeing video of where a person was last seen can be helpful in gathering clues to their disappearance. Most recently, video cameras have given clues to police in the Shannan Gilbert case, who has been missing since May 2010. Surveillance footage also led to the arrest of Philip Markoff, the 23-year-old medical student, also known as the Craigslist Killer, who allegedly murdered Julissa Brisman."

(Bolded by me)

http://www.beautifulclothings.com/how-surveillance-helps-solve-crimes/


So the tapes aren't missing!?
I wonder if MP's story matches up with what's seen. Was he really parked at the gate outside of the community or did he go through the gate? Did he really stay and look for Shannan and leave at 6? Or is he seen leaving earlier, and maybe with SG in the car?
Hopefullly they got SOMETHING on video...

<modsnip>

 

[Seaslug44]

Look at this police report; Woman Found Dead Near Oak Beach

So their house on the mainland is on fire around 4am but the police don't find them home (only a "sign of struggle").

So... They decide to leave their burning house to go to the beach?

There are like ten beaches closer to their home.... Why Oak Beach???

Suffolk County Police Homicide Squad detectives are investigating the death of a Lindenhurst woman who was found in a vehicle at Sore Thumb Beach in Babylon following a fire at her home in Lindenhurst early this morning. *

First Precinct Patrol Officers responded to a call of a house fire at 675 North Erie Ave., at 4:14 a.m. After the fire was extinguished, detectives discovered signs of a struggle within the home and broadcast a notification to look for the two residents and their missing vehicle. * The vehicle, a 2001 Chevrolet Tahoe, was located west of Oak Beach in Babylon by a Marine Bureau officer on beach patrol.

Officers found the two, a 49-year-old-woman and a 50-year-old man, inside the vehicle at Sore Thumb Beach . The woman was pronounced dead at the scene. The man was unconscious and transported to Good Samaritan Hospital Medical Center in West Islip for treatment of an apparent attempted overdose. He was admitted in serious condition. *

Arson Squad detectives are investigating the cause of fire. Detectives are asking anyone who may have information about this incident to call the Homicide Squad at 631-852-6392 or anonymously to Crime Stoppers at 1-800-220-TIPS. *

The investigation is continuing.

 

[Seaslug44]

Then again... It's probably just a coincidence;


Suicidal man kills wife

 

[Redbird]

I think we've got it! I think we have it pretty much figured out although there is the possibility we have the wrong person or wrong doctor. Anyway we have done some great brainstorming and I think we have connected the dots. I do look to LE for what they are revealing about this crime. They have always connected Shannan to the GB4 and they have looked hard for her. So I believe she is definitely connected and I suspect they have important evidence, but they need her body in order to arrest someone. They have said the Manorville murders are by a different killer and I think so too. Just can't picture a serial killer who would fit both MO's. To me it just doesn't feel right. And those murders spanned 20 years or so. In any event, if you are combining both cases you have to consider so many factors, it makes it very difficult to figure who the SK is. Too much information, so for me I separated the two cases to keep it simple. They say they don't think the LI case is connected to the Atlantic City case, but there are a lot more similarities between the two. So one of my theories is the SK lives on LI at least part time and started farther away from home, killing women (sadly) unlikely to be missed and cared about. It was easy to slip into town, kill them, and not be traced through their chaotic lives. He may have taken lessons from reading about the Green River killer. Then in 2007 he was more experienced and skilled and he moved up to collecting trophies. He could have had inside information about the Manorville victims and how LE investigated the crimes. He may have felt safe by then to bring his trophies closer to home and not be caught. If so, he wasn't as cool and clever as he thought he was and it's already closing in on him. Thanks to Shannan.

 

[KPCrimeNY]

Then again... It's probably just a coincidence;


Suicidal man kills wife

nevermind, I am tired and thought this happened recently

 

[KPCrimeNY]

So here it goes.
NYC and late night dates stick out for me now.
I think it is possible that all these girls are lured to NYC for these events to take place. Although SG left NYC then it happened.

Maureen-Conn to NY. 7/9/07
Missing at night (can't find time for call) from either a Hotel or Port Authority Terminal in NYC.

Melissa-Lives in NYC 7/12/09
Leaves Bronx Appartment to go to date. I was going to guess that this date also started in NYC. Then boyfriend says he remembers and older chummy john on Long Island and suspected that was where she went.

Shannan- NJ to NY 5/1/2010
Shannan left a date in NYC late to go to JB's at Oak Beach.

Meaghan-Maine to NY. 6/6/10
130 am she leaves the Hotel in Hauppauge and is last seen. That hotel is approx 1.5 miles from Central Islip Rail Road Station. She can be in city is about an hour. Also easy/cheap/central located on long island. If traveling without a car it can make sense. Just noticed that Meaghan went missing a year ago tomorrow.

Amber-North Babylon 9/2/10
She too could have taken a train to NYC. Leaving at 1030pm getting to NYC around 12am

Again I am just brainstorming and throwing out what I see. But, a theory that comes to mind is that what if Shannan was actually followed from NYC to Oak Beach from John at previous date. What also interests me is what phone do we have records for? Was she maybe being harassed over phone that caused her to wig out? Didn't she have more then one phone?

I am geting tired. Need sleep. Tons of thoughts tonight...lol

 

[goathairjones]

Responding to goathairjones regarding the first responders and to Chanler regarding Shannan's possession of her phone:

I found the same information shadowraiths linked to at

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/suffolk/missing-woman-s-kin-cop-response-not-quick-1.2546076?qr=1

You have to have a subscription to read the whole thing but you can find it at

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10497.0

It says police marine authorities were the ones who responded to the call.

This site also has several quotes by LE (not Shannan's family) about Shannan leaving the house with the phone, running along with the phone and "Suffolk police described the 911 call Gilbert made, though they did not release it. Talking to a Suffolk dispatcher, Gilbert "intimates that she's being threatened," McCarthy said.

The Project Jason site has a lot of good information.

Thanks for the link, Redbird! Here is the information from the commanding officer regarding where SG believed she was:

While Gilbert's family members await DNA testing of the bones, they say they believe that Suffolk police did not respond quickly to Gilbert's 911 call. Suffolk Dep. Insp. Gerard McCarthy, commanding officer of the Special Services Bureau, said in an interview that the response to the 911 calls was not "immediate." He said Gilbert was "incoherent" and gave a vague location of "near Jones Beach" while talking to 911 dispatchers, making it difficult to get to her quickly. He could not provide the time officers arrived on the scene.

 

[crimesnooper]

somehow it always seems like someone has to blame the victim...because shannan was not taking proper meds, because she put herself in harms way...because she lives a high risk lifestyle.

she is not responsible in anyway...

first she gets ignored because she is is a crazy drug person...then she gets blamed too.

men should always, always ...protect women in everyway...protect them with their lives.

I am always uncomfortable with the concept of "blame" and "fault" becuase it puts people at the extreme end of the spectrum. There is a difference between a girl walking home from school who is abducted and murdered and the murder of a prostitute. Not in terms of human value, or loss or grief. But we just feel safer if we can attribute behavior to the cause of death. But there is no denying that certain high risk behaviors up the chance that something terrible can happen. I find myself feeling less than charitible feelings toward SG's mother becuase she knew where the money was coming from and allowed her others daughters and herself to benefit(shopping sprees ect). While she may not have had control over SG's lifestyle she could have sent a much stronger message to her by not accepting what the money purchased. And imo men can not protect women. Women have to take responsibility for their behavior and protect themselves.

 

[KPCrimeNY]

I am always uncomfortable with the concept of "blame" and "fault" becuase it puts people at the extreme end of the spectrum. There is a difference between a girl walking home from school who is abducted and murdered and the murder of a prostitute. Not in terms of human value, or loss or grief. But we just feel safer if we can attribute behavior to the cause of death. But there is no denying that certain high risk behaviors up the chance that something terrible can happen. I find myself feeling less than charitible feelings toward SG's mother becuase she knew where the money was coming from and allowed her others daughters and herself to benefit(shopping sprees ect). While she may not have had control over SG's lifestyle she could have sent a much stronger message to her by not accepting what the money purchased. And imo men can not protect women. Women have to take responsibility for their behavior and protect themselves.

I hear what you are saying and where you are coming from.
What also pisses me off is if any of these "boyfirends" were actually boyfriends and they supported this....:banghead:

 

[MrsPC]

I hear what you are saying and where you are coming from.
What also pisses me off is if any of these "boyfirends" were actually boyfriends and they supported this....:banghead:

it's really hard for me to grasp a boyfriend being okay with his significant other being a prostitute....

what does it say about the man?

 

[Redbird]

it's really hard for me to grasp a boyfriend being okay with his significant other being a prostitute....

what does it say about the man?

It says to me that "boyfriend" is a euphemism for pimp. I once knew a man who sent his wife out to prostitute herself because they were both so strung out neither of them could work. That's what kind of man he was.

 

[bodhi93]

Just found this article and thought it sounded interesting...
http://www.contracostatimes.com/crime-courts/ci_17911202?source=pkg&nclick_check=1

Police sources say it's possible Naso is responsible for killing a number of victims from California to New York state over decades

There have been a number of killings of prostitutes all over the country and so far they seem to be occurring in 4's.

The slaying method generally fits what is known about the four Northern California victims investigators have linked to Naso, including two women with East Bay connections.

The four from Atlantic City, the GB four, and four in Las Vegas (Link).

Someone here mentioned something about the GB4's names. I don't remember exactly what it was, but I was reminded of the comment when I read the "Naso" article... there is also mention in the Las Vegas story that 3/4 girls had the middle name "Marie"...

I'm not saying I think this is the guy, but he could be someone's mentor... especially since he has ties to the area.

jmoo

 

[KAYTOM]

Missed calls and voicemails don't show up on your monthly phone statements do they?

If they do, I find it a little weird that the last phone call SG made was to 911. She calls at 4:51 talks for 23 minutes in JB's house and then runs out the house, down the steps and past MP who pursues her. Maybe her phone died?

Part of me thinks MP wouldn't have called if she was in sight when he was driving after her. Why call if you can see her? If she went out of sight, and I was MP I would have called non-stop till she picked up or leave a few voicemails. I understand him leaving before the cops come to avoid charges, I just find it very peculiar that she made no calls after the 911 call. Especially given the circumstances.

Makes me wonder if MP didn't call her cause he hits her with his car accidently or lost his temper. He knows it looks really bad given her prior 911 call so he flees. He returns with the boyfriend not to look for her, but to look for any damning evidence. Just a thought.

I also think the theory of the SK finding her somewhere near Oak Beach makes sense. Say he finds her, has no idea she made the call to 911 and he can't help himself. Then a few hours later he finds out about the police and everything and tries to redirect attention by calling SG's mom. I think the doctor part could me a coincidence. He knows she uses drugs and can possible tell she is having a breakdown. So he assumes it isn't too unbelievable a story to throw SG's mom.

 

[Theforeigner]

Concerning Sahnnon Gilbert disappearance:

Here is a newsreport including a video from Dec 14, 2010.

In the newsreport/video it is stated that:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=7843812

"Her last phone call was 21 minutes to 911, when she was grabbed and pulled into a truck, the police missed her by about 5," said Mari Gilbert, Shannon's mother.

"She was basically running away, trying to leave, and it was her going 'get away from me, get away from me', running and knocking on neighbor's doors," said Sherre Gilberg, Shannon's sister.

"Screaming, 'help me, help me, he's trying to kill me," Mari Gilbert said.

Gilbert's family did not hear the 911 calls themselves, but say detectives told them about it and that Shannon, who was working as a prostitute, named her attacker.

The family says it was someone she knew.

Gilbert's family says on that night Shannon met with a man she met on Craigslist (JB I presume).

They say police have talked to the man (JB I presume) and he has taken a lie detector test.

The results were inconclusive

In the video the speaker stated; "It (JB I assume) is NOT the man Shannon named as her attacker (meaning JB was NOT the attacker according to the police, I assume)

 

[marie-chantal]

Concerning Sahnnon Gilbert disappearance:

Here is a newsreport including a video from Dec 14, 2010.

In the newsreport/video it is stated that:

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/northern_suburbs&id=7843812

"Her last phone call was 21 minutes to 911, when she was grabbed and pulled into a truck, the police missed her by about 5," said Mari Gilbert, Shannon's mother.

"She was basically running away, trying to leave, and it was her going 'get away from me, get away from me', running and knocking on neighbor's doors," said Sherre Gilberg, Shannon's sister.

"Screaming, 'help me, help me, he's trying to kill me," Mari Gilbert said.

Gilbert's family did not hear the 911 calls themselves, but say detectives told them about it and that Shannon, who was working as a prostitute, named her attacker.

The family says it was someone she knew.

Gilbert's family says on that night Shannon met with a man she met on Craigslist (JB I presume).

They say police have talked to the man (JB I presume) and he has taken a lie detector test.

The results were inconclusive

In the video the speaker stated; "It (JB I assume) is NOT the man Shannon named as her attacker (meaning JB was NOT the attacker according to the police, I assume)

Oh wow! Great find! This answers a lot of questions. She was pulled into a truck by someone she knew, according to the article. She also said, "he's trying to kill me" not "they're trying to kill me", which is what I read in earlier threads. Did MP drive an SUV? Who would have been there with a truck (assuming that SG didn't say truck when she meant SUV). Really interesting...I was always under the impression that she said "they're trying to kill me".

 

[goathairjones]

Oh wow! Great find! This answers a lot of questions. She was pulled into a truck by someone she knew, according to the article. She also said, "he's trying to kill me" not "they're trying to kill me", which is what I read in earlier threads. Did MP drive an SUV? Who would have been there with a truck (assuming that SG didn't say truck when she meant SUV). Really interesting...I was always under the impression that she said "they're trying to kill me".

Yes, MP was in a large dark SUV. GC mentioned that the Asian guy was in a large dark SUV.

 

[Redbird]

This version of the call has been argued over many times here. There are those who have claimed the Gilberts made the whole thing up, as well as the call from someone claiming to be CPH. I have always believed the family. And I have found an article saying they finally did hear the tape. Then another saying they didn't. I don't think anything has been said here that hasn't been thought of by the poor families of the victims. I would hope they know many here have great sympathy for them and for the girls who lost their lives so tragically. I do not think it is right to judge these mothers when we do not know enough details of their lives to do so. The pain they have to live with is something I would not wish on my worst enemy.

None of these reporters seem to feel the need to be precise in their reporting. I think Shannan's mother meant SUV when she said truck. Or is that a clue that Shannan was pulled into a service utility truck, like an emergency vehicle, or like the white truck we have pondered over?

 

[marie-chantal]

This version of the call has been argued over many times here. There are those who have claimed the Gilberts made the whole thing up, as well as the call from someone claiming to be CPH. I have always believed the family. And I have found an article saying they finally did hear the tape. Then another saying they didn't. I don't think anything has been said here that hasn't been thought of by the poor families of the victims. I would hope they know many here have great sympathy for them and for the girls who lost their lives so tragically. I do not think it is right to judge these mothers when we do not know enough details of their lives to do so. The pain they have to live with is something I would not wish on my worst enemy.

None of these reporters seem to feel the need to be precise in their reporting. I think Shannan's mother meant SUV when she said truck. Or is that a clue that Shannan was pulled into a service utility truck, like an emergency vehicle, or like the white truck we have pondered over?

BBM

This is exactly what I was thinking when I read the word "truck" in Theforeigner's post. I tend to believe her family as well. I don't care what she did for a living. She was someone's daughter and sister. Her mother and sisters love her and are working very hard to find answers to this mystery. If it wasn't for their persistence and their determination that LE not sweep this case under the rug, we wouldn't know anything about it. My heart goes out to them.