NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[Filly]

The Boardwalk in Atlantic City is the walk along the ocean -- and the resort strip around it. http://www.atlanticcitynj.com/boardwalk.aspx

It's not far from the place where the Atlantic City victims were found, however. And the foot fetish connection is highly interesting. Egg Harbor Township to the Boardwalk

This is one of the reasons I do not think this is the same SK.

Where Barb Breidor, Molly Dilts, Kim Raffo, and Tracy Ann Roberts were found is basically not in that whole hub-bub casino scene. There are plenty of prostitutes to be found on Pacific Avenue right in Atlantic City or through some kind of classified deal.

Those seedy joints on the Black Horse Pike are where alot of girls are out there working on their own. That or some "boyfriend" is their pimp. As in share the loot, and share the drugs. These women I highly doubt were on Craigslist. It's basically get a room, turn a trick and smoke your crack or shoot your dope. Go back out and do it all again.

It's definately more like a trucker would stop there and pick someone up as opposed to some high roller. I know it is done, but there's too many "safer" ways to procure a woman for a few hours.

 

[epiphany]

Has it ever been confirmed that all 4 of the "original" victims that were found, were discovered in burlap?

Here is an article indicating only 2 of them were.

Also, I am not sure if this is a terminology issue, but the article describes the material as "canvas", but, I have seen "burlap" mentioned in the U.S. MSM.

Forgive me if I missed this, but how is it known for sure that the killer drove to the dump locations in a car?

Isn't it possible a different method was used, such as a boat?

Respectfully BBM
All four of the first group of bodies discovered in December were found in burlap sacks:

SNIPPED

Ms. Barthelemy’s body was one of four uncovered over the course of three days in December in the thick undergrowth along Ocean Parkway, near Gilgo Beach, in the town of Babylon. All were dumped in burlap sacks.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/nyregion/09bodies.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

 

[Filly]

If a "drifter" is involved, being a "handyman" oftentimes is a chosen occupation. http://

The guy they originally locked up and thought murdered the girls from the AC location was a handyman at the hotel.

 

[svpernin]

I'm probably confused, but I thought that Shannan's sister (in her radio interview) only names him (the doc) as being the individual who called their mother one day after the family reported Shannan missing. Does not necessarily mean it was the said individual (the doc) who actually called her mother. SG's sisters then pay a visit to the said doctor on the Island, who denied to the sisters that he ever called their mother and said such a thing.

I was not aware that Shannan's sister, in her radio interview, states the name of the individual that Shannan provided during her 911 call that morning---only that Shannan "named" in her call the individual who was after her.

I listened to the interview too and this is the impression that I got. I don't think it was ever suggested in any interviews or articles that the doc was the one named in the 911 call (I've been following this case closely since Dec and I had never even heard the doctor mentioned until this week).

IMO, someone was setting the doc up with that phone call, I don't believe he made the call himself. It makes no sense whatsoever that he would do that and then deny it a few days later. Though stranger things have happened, I suppose.

ETA: Actually, did the doctor deny making the call all together or just deny saying SG stayed with him? I can't remember.

 

[concentric]

The guy they originally locked up and thought murdered the girls from the AC location was a handyman at the hotel.

Yep, I remembered that after I posted. Then I asked the question and deleted my post because you put it there.

Thanks.

 

[Verity]

The doctor that was named in Shannan's sisters' interview, has his only office address listed in Oak Beach, which i assume is not very far from where all the events took place. (someone said 2 miles, but i am not sure)

Thanks Secret77 - I'm aware that the named doctor's house has been located, maybe too far away for SG to have got that far on foot. I'm aware it's been suggested that this doc was at JB's "party", and picked her up in SUV after she ran out, but I'm suggesting another possibility and that is, there is more than one doctor with an office in Gilgo Beach.

ETA: My question from earlier is still open. Even if this doctor knew from local gossip that a girl was missing, and her name, it still doesn't explain how he knew the mother's name and phone number. The only explanation I can find is that either SG or her sister, or her mother were patients of his at some point in time, and that SG/ mother herself gave the contact information on the med form for next of kin prior to receiving treatment.

 

[Filly]

Yep, I remembered that after I posted. Then I asked the question and deleted my post because you put it there.

Thanks.

No problemo, C.He wasn't a drifter though. Local guy.

 

[scandi]

I listened to the interview too and this is the impression that I got. I don't think it was ever suggested in any interviews or articles that the doc was the one named in the 911 call (I've been following this case closely since Dec and I had never even heard the doctor mentioned until this week).

IMO, someone was setting the doc up with that phone call, I don't believe he made the call himself. It makes no sense whatsoever that he would do that and then deny it a few days later. Though stranger things have happened, I suppose.

ETA: Actually, did the doctor deny making the call all together or just deny saying SG stayed with him? I can't remember.

It could be someone was setting this doctor up. I'll go listen to it again and write it down. I thought she said Shannan gave the name of this dr in the 911 call. We had a link here earlier today where Shannan's mother said she listened to the 911 call and in that call Shannan named this dr as someone who was after her.

Off to listen again.

 

[Jackalow]

Just listened to the interview again and her sister says that the doctor denies making the statement that Shannan stayed with him not the call. Also on the map Shannan could have easily made it from Jb's house to the doctors on foot. If I'm looking at the correct address for the doctor. It would have taken a few minutes but it's possible.

 

[scandi]

Thanks Secret77 - I'm aware that the named doctor's house has been located, maybe too far away for SG to have got that far on foot. I'm aware it's been suggested that this doc was at JB's "party", and picked her up in SUV after she ran out, but I'm suggesting another possibility and that is, there is more than one doctor with an office in Gilgo Beach.

ETA: My question from earlier is still open. Even if this doctor knew from local gossip that a girl was missing, and her name, it still doesn't explain how he knew the mother's name and phone number. The only explanation I can find is that either SG or her sister, or her mother were patients of his at some point in time, and that SG/ mother herself gave the contact information on the med form for next of kin prior to receiving treatment.

Either that, or he had Shannan's cell phone. We have never heard her cellie was found by LE.

Also, I did find 2 addresses for the dr, both in the gated community. There is also another dr who lived there, has his house for sale, and is not involved in the case that we are aware.

To me it is almost like divine intervention that Shannan had the presence of mind in that 911 call to name a man who had her scared for her life.

 

[svpernin]

It could be someone was setting this doctor up. I'll go listen to it again and write it down. I thought she said Shannan gave the name of this dr in the 911 call. We had a link here earlier today where Shannan's mother said she listened to the 911 call and in that call Shannan named this dr as someone who was after her.

Off to listen again.

Thanks, Scandi. I listened last night but then I listened to Megan's aunt's interview today and read all of the newer posts on here and the new articles and things are starting to get jumbled in my head. So much new information this week, which is a great thing, but it's hard to keep it all straight. I need to start taking notes.

 

[waltzingmatilda]

I'm not goathairjones, but in the area and don't believe there are any. That said, you're asking to prove a negative, an absence of something, so it's difficult to know for a fact unless looking for them, but that kind of thing tends to be general knowledge and I never heard of it.

Thanks Verity! There was something posted on the FB page in the discussion about cameras so I was just curious.

wm

 

[svpernin]

Just listened to the interview again and her sister says that the doctor denies making the statement that Shannan stayed with him not the call. Also on the map Shannan could have easily made it from Jb's house to the doctors on foot. If I'm looking at the correct address for the doctor. It would have taken a few minutes but it's possible.

Okay, that kind of ruins the set-up theory. Something weird is going on.

While at first I thought this was all the work of one guy, with recent developments I think a few people are directly involved in all of this, I'm just not sure who those people are yet.

 

[epiphany]

interesting theory, but i doubt most johns would share that type of information publicly.. specially after finding out that some of the girls they hired disappeared.

unfortunately, there is no evidence whatsoever SH was a victim of the SK.. we don't even have evidence she was a victim at all.. she is still missing and her whereabouts are unknown.
I think LE has better chances of finding the SK though the evidence from the 4 (or 8) confirmed victims, than through speculations of what may have happened to SG.

Respectfully, BBM

LE will do both-use whatever evidence they have to date And speculate, brainstorm and theorize. However, in order to prosecute, evidence will be needed. In the meantime, until then:

The Suffolk Police Department’s chief of detectives, Dominick Varrone, would say only, “Our investigative team is considering many theories and all possibilities.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/09/nyregion/09bodies.html?pagewanted=1&_r=1

 

[gngr~snap]

~ a couple of thoughts.
Just because we have heard Dr. does not necessarily mean MEDICAL Dr. many college professors have a PhD, hence they attain the name Dr. so n so. Even some of the academic advisors in college are Dr.s (not meaning any "college" has anything to do with this SK)
~ maybe he is not a "drifter" in the true sense of the word. Perhaps his job requires him to travel.
~ if he were in the military he could be National Guard or in the Reserves (one weekend a month - two weeks a year...)
~ could he be teaching or heading military exercises?
~ he could have some type of security clearance & if he is going from place to place on military planes his whereabouts would be more difficult to trace than commercial flights.
~ he could be in GA? I DON'T WANT HIM HERE! but there is a Guard training facility near me. They do exercises with teens interested in joining as well as with enlisted men.
~ so what about LI and AC? I don't mean BOOTCAMP but are there any smaller military facilities nearby? Those places have burlap all over for drills...
MOO

 

[Chanler]

in the radio interview a woman and her son also called. the son was younger looking maybe early mid 20's?

the sister mentions sg went to a woman's house while sg was still on the phone with 911 and when the woman was like hold on and then looked up sg was gone.

they claimed that she was "drugged up" so it adds to the possibility that the sk(s) drugged her. yet depending on what type of drug used, maybe instead of being unconcious shannon somehow had adrenaline pumping and was able to still run and attempt to save herself. whether it be tolerance to whatever the drug was, and adrenaline combined, i dont know.

she was screaming and running frantically banging on people's doors while still on the phone with 911.

in the 911 call they said she was intoxicated and they couldnt really understand her in a "drugged up" sense.
shannon's sister says it's extremely out of character for sg to get to that point, panic and call le.

during the call it was clear she was in fear for her life saying "he's trying to kill me" and she kept saying his name, and "get away from me" and "stop it"

also that night there was 2 other 911 calls from witnesses as well and le still arrives 45 mins later. unexcusable since all the 911 calls came from that exact area. 23 mins she disappears le arrive 45 mins later

the next day the driver came back to look and jb says he doesn't know and thats it.
le searches for her (not sure how thorough at least at jb's) and they come up with nothing.

shannon's 2 sisters went to jb's house may 8th to ask what happened with sg that night?

why was she running? why was she scared? what was going on?
jb trys to tell them she was on something, he doesn't know what it was, he told her to leave, she didn't want to. she was going to the bathroom and coming back and was just really crazy and disturbed. jb says hes gonna call the cops and the driver was tryin to get her and she was running from the driver.

shannon's one sister looked over on the floor right outside of jb's house and saw shannon's earring and picked it up.

it's very sad that le went to jb's to search and one of her sister's is the one to find the earring since le's search was obviously not a good one.

jb blew off the earring saying that maybe it was his daughters and the le thought that "oh the cops must have overlooked that" and it was one of his younger daughter's who supposedly lived there at the time.

http://herewomentalkradio.com/home/archives_details/650

26 mins in using windows media player (thank you snapdragon for the link)

jb has taken a lie detector which came out inconclusive.


all this is from the radio interview with shannon gilbert's sister. very informative and interesting.

ps- it also mentions about the dr calling their mother about his treatment for people in that lifestyle and says shannon was there at his house and stayed the night and walked out the next day fine. the doctor called a day after they reported her missing, could be a horrible sales tactic if he was expecting her to be found. now sg's family hasn't talked to the doctor before. he calls before this was all in the news and made public.

in the interview her sister says again the doctor calls and claimed later that he never called the family and said he saw shannon.
very odd.

unless, as has been mentioned it was someone who wasn't the doctor and was trying to "hint" to the family where to look for shannon.
whether malicious intent or "helpful" (in a weird way) i don't know.

the police station claims to not have her jacket, supposedly le took it. sounds sloppy.
no media wanted to run shannon's story until the 4 bodies happened. this in itself is very sad and is why prostitutes are targeted.

sorry for reposting things that have been mentioned prior. this is an excellent interview.

Hi, Righteous1; I seriously doubt that Shannan was drugged. Date rape or "club drugs" are designed to immobilized and often work so quickly that the victims can barely stand not long after taking them. To me, the reports of Shannan's physical condition sound much more like the effects of cocaine (which the NJ police release mentioned) or some kind of amphetamine (popular among prostitutes, especially for late night appointments.) Shannan's sister is courageous and a honor to her family, but I doubt that this brave young woman had a very clear sense of Shannan's party life.

The sister said that the driver (obviously on short rest) returned the next morning, talked with people, and they called the police.

The earring is heart-wrenching, but its presence on JB's property has absolutely no evidential significance. It's well established that she was there and then left. It was the inside of the house that had legal importance.

One unrelated p.s.: The "drifter" description comes only from The New York Post, a tabloid source always attuned to creating maximum voltage.

 

[epiphany]

Okay, that kind of ruins the set-up theory. Something weird is going on.

While at first I thought this was all the work of one guy, with recent developments I think a few people are directly involved in all of this, I'm just not sure who those people are yet.

I'm now considering the possibility that these individuals are all red herrings, especially after yesterday's quote in the NY Post from an unnamed LE source regarding LE honing in on someone. LE must have been fuming! Today, we have the release by the NY Post that a second individual was with JB that evening. IMO, a red herring.

Cops on Long Island are "looking at somebody," said a law-enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cops_li_killer_is_in_our_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN

 

[scandi]

Just listened to the interview again and her sister says that the doctor denies making the statement that Shannan stayed with him not the call. Also on the map Shannan could have easily made it from Jb's house to the doctors on foot. If I'm looking at the correct address for the doctor. It would have taken a few minutes but it's possible.

Now the 2 addresses are written as one, still in the gated community. It was light out that day at 5am, so yes she could have made it in say 7 to 10 min from the Coletti house if she was running on the road?

 

[scandi]

Okay, that kind of ruins the set-up theory. Something weird is going on.

While at first I thought this was all the work of one guy, with recent developments I think a few people are directly involved in all of this, I'm just not sure who those people are yet.

So the doctor didn't deny calling Shannan's mom. Shannan's sister said he told her mom about the clinic he had to help girls like Shannan. And then I THINK she went on to say they couldn't figure out how he got her mom's telephone #. Well, there are definite red flags popping up IMO.

 

[Filly]

Could this murdere be someone that works for say a civic association? A "save the beaches" kind of thing?

That would give you knowledge of the beach alright and if you have helped plant reeds or whatever a person plants for dunes and such you'd have access to brulap.

Just throwing that out there.

Does Giglo have a civic association? Oak Beach does?

Just going on the old premise my dad taught me "Beware of do gooders".:waitasec: