NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[katydid23]

Thanks Secret77 - I'm aware that the named doctor's house has been located, maybe too far away for SG to have got that far on foot. I'm aware it's been suggested that this doc was at JB's "party", and picked her up in SUV after she ran out, but I'm suggesting another possibility and that is, there is more than one doctor with an office in Gilgo Beach.

ETA: My question from earlier is still open. Even if this doctor knew from local gossip that a girl was missing, and her name, it still doesn't explain how he knew the mother's name and phone number. The only explanation I can find is that either SG or her sister, or her mother were patients of his at some point in time, and that SG/ mother herself gave the contact information on the med form for next of kin prior to receiving treatment.

OR it was someone who had SG's phone. Her number was probably listed as MOM in the contacts.

 

[scandi]

Hi, Righteous1; I seriously doubt that Shannan was drugged. Date rape or "club drugs" are designed to immobilized and often work so quickly that the victims can barely stand not long after taking them. To me, the reports of Shannan's physical condition sound much more like the effects of cocaine (which the NJ police release mentioned) or some kind of amphetamine (popular among prostitutes, especially for late night appointments.) Shannan's sister is courageous and a honor to her family, but I doubt that this brave young woman had a very clear sense of Shannan's party life.

The sister said that the driver (obviously on short rest) returned the next morning, talked with people, and they called the police.

The earring is heart-wrenching, but its presence on JB's property has absolutely no evidential significance. It's well established that she was there and then left. It was the inside of the house that had legal importance.

One unrelated p.s.: The "drifter" description comes only from The New York Post, a tabloid source always attuned to creating maximum voltage.

And the driver did say he saw her sitting in a chair in the house {living room} while talking on the phone.

 

[Verity]

Either that, or he had Shannan's cell phone. We have never heard her cellie was found by LE.

Also, I did find 2 addresses for the dr, both in the gated community. There is also another dr who lived there, has his house for sale, and is not involved in the case that we are aware.

To me it is almost like divine intervention that Shannan had the presence of mind in that 911 call to name a man who had her scared for her life.

A doctor would have enough IQ points to realize that calling from a victim's cell phone, or even noting the number from a victim's cell would be a really stupid thing to do. If I were SG's Mom, my first reaction to someone who called in that situation would be, "where did you get my number?" unless of course I already knew - I think they're (the family and LE) holding back the phone number connection between SG / her mother and the doctor. I haven't seen a reasonable explanation of it yet anywhere.

Since this doctor is denying his connection with SG, I would look at all doctors in the area. Another aspect that hasn't been discussed - a lot of those houses would be left unlocked and unoccupied prior to MD. Anybody can gain access, including SG trying to find a place to hide. I appreciate we've been thru a summer since this incident, but LE should have checked all the houses in the area. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. I think she'll be found once the season starts and there are more people around, if she's there. It's sad that these killers are almost never found by exhaustive and intense police work, but always by some random event, like a man walking dog.

 

[Filly]

~ a couple of thoughts.
Just because we have heard Dr. does not necessarily mean MEDICAL Dr. many college professors have a PhD, hence they attain the name Dr. so n so. Even some of the academic advisors in college are Dr.s (not meaning any "college" has anything to do with this SK)
~ maybe he is not a "drifter" in the true sense of the word. Perhaps his job requires him to travel.
~ if he were in the military he could be National Guard or in the Reserves (one weekend a month - two weeks a year...)
~ could he be teaching or heading military exercises?
~ he could have some type of security clearance & if he is going from place to place on military planes his whereabouts would be more difficult to trace than commercial flights.
~ he could be in GA? I DON'T WANT HIM HERE! but there is a Guard training facility near me. They do exercises with teens interested in joining as well as with enlisted men.
~ so what about LI and AC? I don't mean BOOTCAMP but are there any smaller military facilities nearby? Those places have burlap all over for drills...
MOO

Cape May has the Coast Guard I believe, gngr~snap. Cape May isn't way too far from AC.

Noooooo you do not wanting to be helping him.:crazy:

 

[epiphany]

A few theories on the so-called cluster phenomenon of SKs on Long Island:

Why So Many Serial Killers on Long Island?

Serial-killer experts and others offered a host of theories for the cluster phenomenon. Several said it was a fluke of geography. Still others said it was, in a sense, an illusion: Other cities and regions could have just as many or even more serial killers in their midst, but their patterns have not yet been detected by the police.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/weekinreview/10killer.html

 

[scandi]

I'm now considering the possibility that these individuals are all red herrings, especially after yesterday's quote in the NY Post from an unnamed LE source regarding LE honing in on someone. LE must have been fuming! Today, we have the release by the NY Post that a second individual was with JB that evening. IMO, a red herring.

Cops on Long Island are "looking at somebody," said a law-enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/cops_li_killer_is_in_our_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN

BONUS Epiphany, Your link also says: The four remains discovered in December -- all later identified as Craigslist hookers -- had been wrapped in burlap".

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/...r_sights_TPxYTqoOO6yAXXJbTQT1SN#ixzz1J4GffRXB

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Thanks Secret77 - I'm aware that the named doctor's house has been located, maybe too far away for SG to have got that far on foot. I'm aware it's been suggested that this doc was at JB's "party", and picked her up in SUV after she ran out, but I'm suggesting another possibility and that is, there is more than one doctor with an office in Gilgo Beach.

ETA: My question from earlier is still open. Even if this doctor knew from local gossip that a girl was missing, and her name, it still doesn't explain how he knew the mother's name and phone number. The only explanation I can find is that either SG or her sister, or her mother were patients of his at some point in time, and that SG/ mother herself gave the contact information on the med form for next of kin prior to receiving treatment.

Because the "Doctor" is really the sk who had Shannon's cell phone and retrieved her mother's phone number from it. He then called her pretending to be Dr. Such and Such who actually lives in the area. That's why the real Dr. Such and Such was quite befuddled and comflumixed when Shannon's family showed up at his door to further ask questions pertaining to the phone conversation.

This guy likes to play games and he is not above eventually sending some sort of correspondence to LE or a particular media person; whether it be left on the next victim or mailed.

 

[scandi]

A doctor would have enough IQ points to realize that calling from a victim's cell phone, or even noting the number from a victim's cell would be a really stupid thing to do. If I were SG's Mom, my first reaction to someone who called in that situation would be, "where did you get my number?" unless of course I already knew - I think they're (the family and LE) holding back the phone number connection between SG / her mother and the doctor. I haven't seen a reasonable explanation of it yet anywhere.

Since this doctor is denying his connection with SG, I would look at all doctors in the area. Another aspect that hasn't been discussed - a lot of those houses would be left unlocked and unoccupied prior to MD. Anybody can gain access, including SG trying to find a place to hide. I appreciate we've been thru a summer since this incident, but LE should have checked all the houses in the area. Maybe they have, maybe they haven't. I think she'll be found once the season starts and there are more people around, if she's there. It's sad that these killers are almost never found by exhaustive and intense police work, but always by some random event, like a man walking dog.

ITA it would be stupid to call from the victim's phone. The only reason I can think of isn't very good, but often SK's want to interject themselves into the case. Just like Michelle's {Melissa's ?}family getting a call from a man with what they believe was her cell phone.

I also read somewhere that if the SK did call to talk to his victim's family, tormenting them as this call did, it would possibly mean he is a sexual sadist. That is also what Pat Brown referred to this killer as.

 

[scandi]

Because the "Doctor" is really the sk who had Shannon's cell phone and retrieved her mother's phone number from it. He then called her pretending to be Dr. Such and Such who actually lives in the area. That's why the real Dr. Such and Such was quite befuddled and comflumixed when Shannon's family showed up at his door to further ask questions pertaining to the phone conversation.

This guy likes to play games and he is not above eventually sending some sort of correspondence to LE or a particular media person; whether it be left on the next victim or mailed.

That could be a good explanation for what happened Sistah. But he did know about the doctor's clinic as he mentioned that to the mother. How did he know Shannan had given this particular dr's name on the 911 call to use it when he talked to her?

 

[epiphany]

From the Associated Press re other aspects of the investigation:

Although it appears daunting, one Suffolk County investigator, who declined to be identified because of the ongoing investigation, told The Associated Press that detectives are taking a methodical approach to finding a suspect. They are poring over credit card records of the victims to track their movements and determine whether they spent money in the area. They are also checking cell phone calls to map the women's movements.

Computer records of the women's communications and their appointment records have also been reviewed, he said.

Others are looking at a spectrum of public documents, including records about traffic stops and tickets that may have been issued on Ocean Parkway or nearby at the time...

They also are reviewing more mundane paperwork, like applications for clamming licenses, in case the killer may have dumped the bodies onto the narrow barrier island from the Great South Bay.

SNIPPED
http://www2.wrbl.com/news/2011/apr/09/search-for-possible-serial-killer-presses-on-in-ar-1694448/

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

A few theories on the so-called cluster phenomenon of SKs on Long Island:

Why So Many Serial Killers on Long Island?

Serial-killer experts and others offered a host of theories for the cluster phenomenon. Several said it was a fluke of geography. Still others said it was, in a sense, an illusion: Other cities and regions could have just as many or even more serial killers in their midst, but their patterns have not yet been detected by the police.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/10/weekinreview/10killer.html

Why so many serial killers on Long Island?

*I am whispering here*
I really don't want to offend anybody from LI but I always found people to be very strange on LI. I thought it was just me thinking this until I overheard others stating the same thing. I don't know what it is, maybe something in the water (there is a HIGH rate of breast cancer out there) but a lot of people are just strange.

*Tip toes out of thread*

 

[Dee10]

Because the "Doctor" is really the sk who had Shannon's cell phone and retrieved her mother's phone number from it. He then called her pretending to be Dr. Such and Such who actually lives in the area. That's why the real Dr. Such and Such was quite befuddled and comflumixed when Shannon's family showed up at his door to further ask questions pertaining to the phone conversation.

This guy likes to play games and he is not above eventually sending some sort of correspondence to LE or a particular media person; whether it be left on the next victim or mailed.

I with you, but to pick that (local) Dr.'s name suggests to me among other reasons the SK lives or works in that vicinity. If so, I wonder if his motive for that particular call was planting the suggestion if they didn't hear from her it was because she decided to go enter into treatment?

I can't remember if the sister said this call came the day after they reported her missing? Wondering if there is any significance? Who would be aware the mother reported her missing? I kind of doubt LE immediately jumped on it...so it would be police, boyfriend...???

 

[goathairjones]

Here is another article is saying it could be someone in law enforcement:

http://abcnews.go.com/US/long-island-serial-killer-profile-developed/story?id=13337371

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

That could be a good explanation for what happened Sistah. But he did know about the doctor's clinic as he mentioned that to the mother. How did he know Shannan had given this particular dr's name on the 911 call to use it when he talked to her?

Is it a fact that Shannon stated the dr's name on the 911 call? I didn't listen to the interview.

 

[goathairjones]

I'm starting to think it may be a Gilgo surfer. They are out there every morning at sunrise. They pass that location where the bodies were dispose of daily.

 

[Dee10]

That could be a good explanation for what happened Sistah. But he did know about the doctor's clinic as he mentioned that to the mother. How did he know Shannan had given this particular dr's name on the 911 call to use it when he talked to her?

Scandi, I don't recall that the mother or sister ever heard the 911 tape, just that LE had told them she named the person who she said was trying to kill her on the 911 tape and the existence of the tape. I will try & re-listen later.

 

[scandi]

Here is a post Chemcopout wrote which details what was said in the interview of Shannan's sister:

[ame="http://websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6314699&postcount=268"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3[/ame]

I guess I don't know how to just show the whole post here, sorry.

 

[Verity]

Because the "Doctor" is really the sk who had Shannon's cell phone and retrieved her mother's phone number from it. He then called her pretending to be Dr. Such and Such who actually lives in the area. That's why the real Dr. Such and Such was quite befuddled and comflumixed when Shannon's family showed up at his door to further ask questions pertaining to the phone conversation.

This guy likes to play games and he is not above eventually sending some sort of correspondence to LE or a particular media person; whether it be left on the next victim or mailed.

Aha! :lightbulb: moment. Thank you! That makes sense if we dismiss the report that he didn't deny making the call as misreporting, which is more possible that any other explanation of cell phone to Mom. This fits with the way SK played with Megan Waterman's sister. It would be good to know the location where that call came from, whether similar.

That could be a good explanation for what happened Sistah. But he did know about the doctor's clinic as he mentioned that to the mother. How did he know Shannan had given this particular dr's name on the 911 call to use it when he talked to her?

Quite a few possibilities there I think;
He didn't, it's a coincidence.
He was there when she made the 911 call.
He was listening to the call come in through police scanner.
He's LE.

It's beginning to feel like a ring where one of them went rogue and started killing - drugs, prostitution, movies, payoffs. He may have acted alone, but I sense a lot of shady stuff going on in the background in that area.

 

[scandi]

Scandi, I don't recall that the mother or sister ever heard the 911 tape, just that LE had told them she named the person who she said was trying to kill her on the 911 tape and the existence of the tape. I will try & re-listen later.

Here is what was said about that in Chemcopout's link:

"in the 911 call they said she was intoxicated and they couldn't really understand her in a "drugged up" sense.
shannon's sister says it's extremely out of character for sg to get to that point, panic and call le.

during the call it was clear she was in fear for her life saying "he's trying to kill me" and she kept saying his name, and "get away from me" and "stop it"

And her sister knew the name and said it in the interview.

I could swear I read a quote from a link here saying the mother had heard the whole 911 tape. I thought the sister said she was there when her mom listened to the tape. I could be dreaming, but . . .LOL. Remember it took 3 months for LE to find the 911 tapes. I'll try to find that link.

 

[shadowraiths]

In re: the Doctor. Imo, interpretations will be different. So, fwiw, here is the transcript from that section of the podcast: http://herewomentalkradio.com/home/archives_details/650

Sister: We found, um, a Dr. [redacted] who actually had called my mom. um. The day after she was reported missing. And basically told her, um, a fabricated story. Cuz when we had confronted him about it he denied it. But he told my mom that he saw shannan and he basically uh, er, ran um, a little like uh treatment place, and he saw shannan, took her in, and then in the morning, you know, he let her go. And then the driver came to pick her up. So when we confronted him ...

Woman: So let me just reframe this because... so, your sister runs missing from 1st man's house. There's 3 911 calls, police respond but never find her. And this man calls your mom and says I have a shelter or treatment center for people like this that are in this lifestyle and she stayed here and then she just walked off the next day, and she's fine.

Sister: Yeah. That's what he said. And um. We tried to get more information. And he just. I dunno. He just. He was lying.

Woman: And that's before you knew she was missing. Cuz he calls right away.

Sister: He called. Um. He called. Like I think a day after we reported her missing.

Woman: So she's not in the news. So she's not on TV. You know, it's not a public story yet.

Sister: Correct. It hadn't actually been a public story until December. Which was almost seven months when she went missing. We tried calling news papers. And um, you know, news reporters and everything. And nobody wanted to display until the four bodies came up and [garbled].

Woman: So let me get back to him just a minute. So, he claims she spent the night at his house. Now this is a gated community. All residental. There's no businesses or anything. It's all homes. And then he finds your mother. Now you guys never had contact with this man before he called you. Is that correct?

Sister: Yes. We never had contact with him.

Woman: So then he claims later that he didn't call you.

Sister: Yes. He says that he doesn't recall saying that to my sister. And my sister looks at him and says, you called my mother and said you saw her. And says oh, I don't recall saying that. I don't remember saying that. If I said that I would remember that. And it was just a little...

Woman: So if he didn't call you how would you know even know that he existed? How would you know have know to have gone there to look for her?

Sister: Yeah. I don't know if he was saying he didn't call her, in general. Or he was saying that he didn't say that. I think he was trying to say he never said that. But I was right there with my mom on the phone when she was speaking with him.​

ETA ~ I listened and tried to transcribe, so pls feel free to correct any/all errors.