NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[amysmom]

I think it really just shows the prevalence of burlap sacks in that area- they are obviously used for many things. But the picture certainly was jarring, since we now have such a different, terrible usage of those sacks in our brains - especially seeing them with kids and such an innocent activity. Creeped me out and made me sad.

ITA! I also didn't mean to imply that those burlap sacks with possible drawings/writing on them (for the races) were the only ones available to the SK..Hopefully, LE can find more of them in the community but if not the pix alone is still very good evidence.

 

[Soulmagent]

Snipped

This may have been discussed before on the thread that I missed, and I'm not sure why you're asking the question. I don't know about footpaths, there's always a cut through another house yard, but IMOO, since it's referred to as a "Gated Community" and not just an "Association", then it would only have one vehicular entrance, the one that you can see in the photo.

BTW, this sign may be lit at night, and since there's power there for the gate, it's quite likely that it is lit.

Question: How do we know this was SG's first visit? I'm discounting her calling it "Jones Beach", because locals have said they do the same, so that in itself isn't sufficient to convince me this wasn't a repeat visit.

Because it was widely reported that she was last seen going to met a client on fire island. Not oak beach now there has been reports of another client. Could have been a known client but I dont believe she had ever been though the gate before because she didnt say the name of the very well known place she was actually in.JMO
So if the only way to fire Island is by boat and foot then can one take a boat from fire island straight into Oakbeach without passing by a huge sign.

http://www.news12.com/articleDetail.jsp?regionId=2&articleId=268805&position=1&news_type=news

I dont know if it is important but it might be.

 

[goathairjones]

Interview with SG's sister Tonight! Gerarldo at Large interview tonight at 10p E/T on the Fox News Channel.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

The "facing east" info is perplexing.

There must be more that LE is not releasing with respect to that subject.

Is it common for LE to note the location the body is facing?

What is the signifigance of the EAST?

Could it be the Eastern Vs. the Western world???

I thought that it might mean to look for death in the east. I think it was his way of leaving a macabre message to LE.

 

[tfrohning]

kikid, the similarities are WOW!

I am still looking for a photo of the guy who is not smart. I know I saw a photo of him somewhere in a news article. (I must be more discliplined on taking notes.)

IIRC, he looked scruffy too!

moo wm

Wow! Oh my goodness the noise is right on IMO
the AC sketch could made his self look scruffy.

 

[bdawk20]

I thought that it might mean to look for death in the east. I think it was his way of leaving a macabre message to LE.

I live in Philly, so the AC murders were talked about in the papers and news alot. I remember talk of east also so happened to be facing the casinos, also talk of muslims facing east to pray to mecca...just theories, but I'll look around for articles that mentioned it.......

 

[OldSteve]

Regarding 500ft:
The only thing I can come up with concerning the 500ft spacing:

http://www.sohoalliance.org/news_articles/real_estate_law.html

It's the Padavan Law that bars the NY SLA from granting an on-premises liquor license to any establishment located within 500 feet of three or more existing licensed premises...



Padavan also relates to:

http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/04/n...homes-a-law-works-ever-so-quietly.html?src=pm

 

[svpernin]

I just caught up on all the new posts. Wow. Lots of stuff coming out, and I've gotta say, I'm impressed with the hardcore sleuthing that has gone on here.

With all of the new information and conflicting, vague news articles, I really hope LE has another press conference this week to clear up some of the reports that are coming out because I have no idea what to believe at this point.

The search resumes tomorrow so I assume LE will be making some kind of statement in the new few days.

 

[Jackalow]

OMG.

What a find.

I was just noticing on the site under the join link about the emergency services how the Members of the association fill out an emergency services form which is submitted to LE so in the event they call 911 LE knows exactly where the call is coming from since the area is difficult to find, etc.


http://www.oakbeachcivicassociation.com/join

 

[Verity]

Snipped
So if the only way to fire Island is by boat and foot then can one take a boat from fire island straight into Oakbeach without passing by a huge sign.

Yes, I believe that would be fairly easy. I don't know Fire Island, but can see a yacht club at Saltaire, which may or may not accept transient docking. From there, it's a straight run under the Robert Moses Causeway bridge to the vacant lot in Oak Beach on the bay side with the path leading directly to JB's house. I picked that spot on FI to depart because it's roughly 5miles, which in a "No Wake" zone would mean speed limit of 5mph = one hour. If yoiu can get outside the "No Wake Zone" into a channel, you could probably do it in 15 minutes. However, please note that there's a minor issue when you arrive of no dock to moor the boat , although easy to tie up to one of the neighbor's docks either side. For that, you'd need permission from the owner, but it's neighborly thing to do and out of season, I'm sure nobody would have a problem with it.

To confirm (or refute) all the above, you'd want to check with someone who has actually navigated those waters (I have not), or at least look at the charts for 5 mph zone, minimum 4ft depth of water at mean low tide on the neighbors dock, and you'd want to check the tides and weather for that particular date. This would determine what kind of boat you could get in and how long it would take.

Sorry, I don't have time to do all that homework, but will do it if it ever points in that direction and in the meantime, hope this answers your question.


[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=8+the+fairway,+oak+beach,+ny&aq=&sll=40.639944,-73.252029&sspn=0.058682,0.132093&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=8+The+Fairway,+Gilgo-Oak+Beach-Captree,+Suffolk,+New+York+11702&ll=40.63418,-73.270483&spn=0.029344,0.066047&t=h&z=15"]8 the fairway, oak beach, ny - Google Maps[/ame]

ETA: I'm now thinking it's entirely possible that John #2 arrived at JB's by boat from Fire island, although engine noise amplifies at night, and boats have lights which are visible from occupied homes on the shore.

 

[amysmom]

I'd like to see how clear that sign is at 2 AM in May.

So, there is no guard at the gate..That's why Shannon didn't run to him for help.

 

[shadowraiths]

Okay, found it. Thanks to the original websleuths post made by trigger ([ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?p=5902830#post5902830]link[/ame]) in the 1st thread ([ame=http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122551]link[/ame])! Knew I saw it somewhere. Anyway, it's not in the printed bit, rather in the video ( link ). Go to approx the 2:17 mark, where they're interviewing the family. It's right after the interview. I went ahead and transcribed that bit as well (emphasis, news reporter's).

Gilbert's family says on that night Shannan met with a man she met on Craigslist at the beach in Long Island. They say police have talked to the man and he has taken a lie detector test. It is not the man Shannan named as her attacker.​

 

[waltzingmatilda]

Okay, found it. Thanks to the original websleuths post made by trigger (link) in the 1st thread (link)! Knew I saw it somewhere. Anyway, it's not in the printed bit, rather in the video ( link ). Go to approx the 2:17 mark, where they're interviewing the family. It's right after the interview. I went ahead and transcribed that bit as well (emphasis, news reporter's).

Gilbert's family says on that night Shannan met with a man she met on Craigslist at the beach in Long Island. They say police have talked to the man and he has taken a lie detector test. It is not the man Shannan named as her attacker.​

I am so glad you found it shadowraiths! And thank you for the links to the photos of JB and 'not smart enough guy'! I don't see any resemblence to the composite of the AC guy, JMO.

wm

 

[Verity]

Oh wow, I just found a round the clock water taxi running from Fire Island!!

There are, in addition, water taxis which make special trips on a round-the-clock basis; Special water taxis are available, 24 hours a day, weather permitting, if you miss the regularly scheduled ferries; and there are those craving adventure, who prefer them even when the bigger craft are running.

http://www.fireislandcc.org/fitrans.html#fwt

 

[chemcopout]

Hmmm that comment was asked not to shared publicly. :waitasec:

thats the kicker, the poster says not to share it publically which is exactly what she is doing. maybe she had a bad affair with the author and wants to smear his name.
otherwise instead of slandering him, she'd be making a call to le over here if she was serious.

 

[chemcopout]

The AC women were all working the seedy "strip" area and likely met their killer on the streets. It sounds as though these girls (LI) worked by appointment. I really don't think it is the same killer. The women who were interviewed for the Dateline/48 Hours special on the AC killings a few years ago indicated that they found their clients by just standing on the corner, and probably all encountered the same local man, possibly the man the police have looked at as a potential suspect.

Of course it could be the same person(s) if he decided to change his MO of obtaining his victims, but he would probably need more resources than were needed in the AC killings, i.e. vehicle, phone, maybe a computer. Just seems different to me.

this is a good post. at first i didn't think the killer was the same, yet since then i have changed my mind.

say at first he decides to pick up the girls from ac off the street. he dumps the bodies complete with personal stuff aside from their shoes.
then something spooks him, maybe one of their friends got a glimpse of him with one of the missing women; some type of close call happened.

so he goes back to l.i. and changes his m.o. to removing all personal articles from the girls, so that if there were to be any "witnesses" the longer amount of time it takes le to identify the victims, those witnesses wouldn't remember him or details of when their friends went missing.

also he's ordering these girls pretty much. off of craigslist, instead of getting them off the street.

how is the sk(S) so sure that the girls pimps or drivers won't notice them missing? he is ordering them, so they go directly to his house.

does the sk hire the girls prior to when he kills them? does he hire them to "feel out" the territory, see if they come with a driver, who he deals with when making the appts?

did the sk ever hire his own driver to get any of the girls?

i can't wait until they id the last 4, that will help us greatly.

 

[KateNY]

The "facing east" info is perplexing.

There must be more that LE is not releasing with respect to that subject.

Is it common for LE to note the location the body is facing?

What is the significance of the EAST?

Could it be the Eastern Vs. the Western world???

Just tossing this out, from a discussion with our funeral director :
They bury all bodies in the cemetery facing east...as a christian tradition.

Google turns up that, and other references to facing east that may be of interest

 

[concentric]

Still questioning the 500 ft. spacing.

Does anyone know if there were markers present in the surrounding area prior to the bodies being deposited there?

I am researching why 500 ft. beach spacing would be significant, from various angles, i.e. erosion/compaction of the coastline, etc.

It is obvious the perp. had no regard for the human lives of these women. Did he think of them only as some kind of degradable product to use in erosion management, that is, after he was done using them for sex.

 

[epiphany]

We know that Shannan's sister states that an individual called her mother a day after the family reported Shannan missing, that is, prior to the info being known to the public.

Here's when the family may have filed the official report in Jersey City (Obviously, LI LE would have known about SG on May 1):

"She was visiting a 'client' whom she met through Craigslist and ... refused to leave the 'client's' residence,'' the flier with two photos of her states.

That was on May 1; the report was filed by Gilbert's parents on May 4, Jersey City police said today.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/missing_jersey_city_woman_shan.html

Therefore, the call to Shannan's mother may have come in on May 5. IMO, the SK could be keeping the victims alive for a day or so.

 

[OldSteve]

Still questioning the 50 ft. spacing.

Does anyone in the know if there were markers present in the surrounding area prior to the bodies being deposited there?

It's 500 ft, not 50ft...

It's the Padavan Law that bars the NY SLA from granting an on-premises liquor license to any establishment located within 500 feet of three or more existing licensed premises...

And Padavan also related to LI housing for group homes, and for institutions for the retarded and mentally ill - as sniped from :
http://www.nytimes.com/1988/11/04/n...homes-a-law-works-ever-so-quietly.html?src=pm

I thought the AC victims were all facing east as well?