NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[chemcopout]

That's a very sad article. Poor woman.

It sounds like she was doing high-end tricks, though, with the amount of money they're talking about. It sounds like she had more than one contact with a rather well-heeled client over the course of several months.

"When Molly said she needed some money, she would pick up the phone, make a phone call, then she would leave from here," Miss Coleman said. "Then, next thing you know, when she'd come back, she'd have money."

"She would have $500 in her pocket," Mrs. Burton said. "I'd say, 'Where'd you get that money from?' She said, 'Oh, a friend of mine.' That was it."

and

"After one absence of a week, Molly returned to West Colona and showed off a stunning black dress, a gift, she said, from an admirer with whom she had stayed in Atlantic City.

"She said she stayed at the Borgata," Rondell Burton said. The Borgata is touted as Atlantic City's most luxurious hotel-casino. "That was her first time going to Atlantic City. She said she really enjoyed herself and that she got to gamble for the first time, got to really see the beach, and that she would like to go back sometime."

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07035/759320-85.stm#ixzz1J95lwRNi

it mentions raffo and that she was strangled to death. i believe that all of the girls cod's are strangulation, jmo...
thank you for the link, carbuff, it's very interesting.

kim raffo sounds like she had a nice life in l.i. with her husband. then she met another man and fell in love with him. this is the same man she went to atlantic city with, and 3 years later she is dead.

how did raffo end up going from being a housewife in a nice area, to a call girl working the streets of ac? what happened to her? who was this man she met and moved to ac with?

kim turns to a life of hard working and prostitution when her husband seemed to want her back.

on sept 9, 2006 kim's husband came looking for her in ac to "rescue the mother of their children". meanwhile kim's bf kenny is in jail for shoplifting.
kim returns with her husband back to l.i. and took up his offer.

kim spent the next several weeks back home in li clean and sober. then kim decides to go back to ac for whatever reasons. she stay with her bartender friend joe for awhile, then is back to hooking and drugs. then the sk got her.

what is interesting is one of the ac victims, barbara's toxicology showed a lethal dose of heroin.

molly showed a large amount of alcohol.

and kim and tracy's toxicology results showed a large amount of cocaine.

this all suggest that the sk likely drugs the girls.

now it would have to be an extremely large amount of coke, as cocaine is the last thing you would want to drug people with. it makes them speedy and bounce off the walls. some of these girls may also have had a tolerance for coke, if it was something they did regularly. which is why i suggest a large amount could serious harm or kill someone, may have likely been used, imo.

the fact that ac got a sketch is interesting. possibly it's what scared the sk into leaving ac and changing his m.o.
i'm not saying the sketch is accurate, it could be terribly off for all i know, and not to mention the sk would probably try and disguise himself.

 

[Danica7]

I thought that it might mean to look for death in the east. I think it was his way of leaving a macabre message to LE.

Arent they facing the direction of the ocean...so in AC it would be east?

 

[Danica7]

jb....just saying

 

[tfrohning]

I don't understand why LE has not even came out and say male or female. I pretty sure theses remains has been a priority! I think LE is keeping secrets... darn it! but I do understand to a point.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

Arent they facing the direction of the ocean...so in AC it would be east?

LI is east of AC, I believe.

 

[chemcopout]

if le is really serious that they think this guy might be a cop of former le (and this is not just a ploy to throw the real killer off)
then i think they likely have good reason to think so, and it likely isn't anything that we'd know of unless we are le. it's likely beyond what they show on id, courttv, and criminal minds etc.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...exts-strangling-victim.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

if this has been posted before, i apologize. and i also apologize for posting a link to a newspaper in the uk that uses such distasteful wording in order to get people to read it.
i can't find a link for our regular post and scanning it in won't do lol.

"Investigators believe the killer has a sophisticated understanding of police investigation techniques and 'may be a cop'.

He used untraceable disposable cell phones to contact the Craigslist victims. Made calls in crowded locations and never stayed on the line longer than three minutes.

A source told the New York Times: 'He is a guy aware of how we utilise technology. Frankly, people are thinking maybe he could be a cop - either one still in law enforcement or one who has moved on.

'Without question this guy is smart, this guy is not a dope. it's a guy who thinks about things."


either the sk has given le good reason to think it's another le or former le; or the cops are behind in the times in this world of information and crime tv shows.

whatever is making them think he's le, i doubt it's regarding use of burners (disposable cell phones) and the places the sk has called from.

le can't release a lot of info in this case, so whatever is making them think the sk is a cop is not going to be released. given that this whole "le sk" bit is not a plant to begin with to throw off the sk.

 

[Verity]

Still questioning the 500 ft. spacing.

Does anyone in the know if there were markers present in the surrounding area prior to the bodies being deposited there?

I am researching why 500 ft. beach spacing would be significant, from various angles, i.e. erosion/compaction of the coastline, etc.

It is obvious the perp. had no regard for the human lives of these women. Did he think of them only as some kind of degradable product to use in erosion management, that is, after he was done using them for sex.

Option 1: http://www.greaternyroads.info/refmark.htm roads marked in 10ths of a mile. There are 5280ft in a mile, so 1/10th =528ft . Rounded down for or by the press, and given the not exact science of measuring spaces of old graves of an indeterminate width......center to center, or outside edge to outside edge, I'd say this theory has legs.

Option 2: The causeway was constructed with timber lamposts. No info of how far apart they're spaced. many have disappeared over the years, but they're proposing to reinstate by 2020, so of course even those not there must be marked.

Option 3: He has GPS on his phone and follows coordinates.

I like Option 1...

 

[SuziQ]

I'm still looking for the overhead shot of the AC body dump and ran across the below snip. So it appears that maybe the bodies in AC weren't facing east. But their faces were facing east or bent at the neck? Not sure if this means much, food for thought. Back to searching for that pic.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=41917

(snip)
The details of the crime scene are eerie. According to investigators, each body was dumped about 60 feet from the last, and all of their faces were positioned in the same peculiar way -- with their heads facing east, toward Atlantic City. All of the victims were wearing clothes on their bodies, but were all missing their shoes and socks. Medical examiners told police that the women were not killed at the same time, although it appears that they were all killed within a month of one another.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think the AC killer would have had to drug the women. The women who work on the streets there (and elsewhere) are often drugged with their choice of substance already and it would be very easy to strangle a prostitute without having to drug her.

 

[shadowraiths]

Just tossing this out, from a discussion with our funeral director :
They bury all bodies in the cemetery facing east...as a christian tradition

Now there's a thought.

Facing East

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." -- Mathew 24:27​

No Shoes

"He who hath been bathed hath no need, save to wash his feet" -- John 13:10​

Burlap

"Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins." -- Isaiah 32:11​

​

 

[OldSteve]

Option 1: http://www.greaternyroads.info/refmark.htm roads marked in 10ths of a mile. There are 5280ft in a mile, so 1/10th =528ft . Rounded down for or by the press, and given the not exact science of measuring spaces of old graves of an indeterminate width......center to center, or outside edge to outside edge, I'd say this theory has legs.

Option 2: The causeway was constructed with timber lamposts. No info of how far apart they're spaced. many have disappeared over the years, but they're proposing to reinstate by 2020, so of course even those not there must be marked.

Option 3: He has GPS on his phone and follows coordinates.

I like Option 1...

I like your 0.1 mile marker explanation for the 500 ft. (Wonder if the markers are there..) Perhaps the SK is not so sophisticated, and used the markers simply as way to avoid digging in areas he already used...

 

[tfrohning]

Now there's a thought.

Facing East

"For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be." -- Mathew 24:27​

No Shoes

"He who hath been bathed hath no need, save to wash his feet" -- John 13:10​

Burlap

"Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins." -- Isaiah 32:11​

​

C & P

"Tremble, ye women that are at ease; be troubled, ye careless ones: strip you, and make you bare, and gird sackcloth upon your loins." -- Isaiah 32:11​

[/COLOR][/INDENT

Very interesting! I can't post my thoughts on this right now against rules. But this fits in with one of my theory.

 

[chemcopout]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sicko_call_from_slay_gal_cell_5COah6gj6Xkk2gT4KgekcI

here's the post link

it says melissa was strangled.

so the sk(s) stores the girls prior to dumping them? makes me think about jb in the dark with a friend and that uhaul truck...

and that makes me think about when i was watching a case on the id channel where a killer stored a body in a uhaul inside a refrigerator.

for this killer to hoard bodies until he has 4 is insane. it's more risky to have 4 bodies on your property or in your car, and even worse to have to transport all 4 for dumping. this guy is really bold, and i wouldn't be surprised if he has an accomplice.

the post says that suffolk claims they have no suspect, however a source (a source that was likely paid a large amount of money by the paper) says they have been watching someone for days.

if they have a poi they're watching, then they know his background and that would be why they know he's a cop or has been?

another odd thing that's not been mentioned in the past news, is that the sk has been harrassing melissa's sister, amanda alot longer than i thought. evidently a couple months as opposed to the several calls previously reported.

in the case of waterman, it seems when akeem called her at 1:30am, that's when she likely knew she was to go to a client and left the hotel walking.
if she was walking, then she didn't have a ride. did someone meet her? did she take a cab to the sk client?


what i'm curious to know is how le can tell that the sk kept the victims prior to disposing of them?
le found the remains in various states of severe decomp.
it would seem more likely the killer buried them there one at a time, instead of hoarding bodies.
the killer could memorize where he buried the victims by mile markers, or even gps.

just because le found the victims in different states of decomp, doesn't prove the sk(s) held onto the bodies for awhile before burying them.
just proves that the sk uses the same dumping grounds for his victims.
and that he killed them at various different times.

does anyone know what they mean by suggesting the sk kept some of the bodies prior to disposing?

it sounds like some type of mispeak. why hold onto corpses? that's what gets people in trouble. if the sk actually goes through all the trouble of removing personal affects off the victims, then why would he hold onto bodies?

i still think he dumped them one at a time. otherwise what's he going to do? bring a load of 4 and drive down the road with a tape measure while dumping them? that's insane!

the whole spacing apart bit seems a major part of the sk's m.o. between li and ac girls.

 

[chemcopout]

I'm still looking for the overhead shot of the AC body dump and ran across the below snip. So it appears that maybe the bodies in AC weren't facing east. But their faces were facing east or bent at the neck? Not sure if this means much, food for thought. Back to searching for that pic.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=41917

(snip)
The details of the crime scene are eerie. According to investigators, each body was dumped about 60 feet from the last, and all of their faces were positioned in the same peculiar way -- with their heads facing east, toward Atlantic City. All of the victims were wearing clothes on their bodies, but were all missing their shoes and socks. Medical examiners told police that the women were not killed at the same time, although it appears that they were all killed within a month of one another.

he was positioning them in ac, making their heads face east.

the very important part is the spacing of each one about 60 ft from the last victim.
not sure if 60 ft is an estimate by le, however

in long island:

"Suffolk Chief of Detective Dominick Varrone said that the first four bodies found in December were buried in a quarter mile area, just 50 feet from the side of the Ocean Parkway and 500 feet apart. The latest four bodies were buried some distance away, much deeper and in thorny bushes"

http://www.irishcentral.com/news/-C...g-spree-spread-over-four-years-119467004.html

does anyone know how far apart the first 4 found in dec 2010 were from one another?

the whole thing that connects is the spacing apart of the victims

 

[chemcopout]

Yes, I believe that would be fairly easy. I don't know Fire Island, but can see a yacht club at Saltaire, which may or may not accept transient docking. From there, it's a straight run under the Robert Moses Causeway bridge to the vacant lot in Oak Beach on the bay side with the path leading directly to JB's house. I picked that spot on FI to depart because it's roughly 5miles, which in a "No Wake" zone would mean speed limit of 5mph = one hour. If yoiu can get outside the "No Wake Zone" into a channel, you could probably do it in 15 minutes. However, please note that there's a minor issue when you arrive of no dock to moor the boat , although easy to tie up to one of the neighbor's docks either side. For that, you'd need permission from the owner, but it's neighborly thing to do and out of season, I'm sure nobody would have a problem with it.

To confirm (or refute) all the above, you'd want to check with someone who has actually navigated those waters (I have not), or at least look at the charts for 5 mph zone, minimum 4ft depth of water at mean low tide on the neighbors dock, and you'd want to check the tides and weather for that particular date. This would determine what kind of boat you could get in and how long it would take.

Sorry, I don't have time to do all that homework, but will do it if it ever points in that direction and in the meantime, hope this answers your question.


8 the fairway, oak beach, ny - Google Maps

ETA: I'm now thinking it's entirely possible that John #2 arrived at JB's by boat from Fire island, although engine noise amplifies at night, and boats have lights which are visible from occupied homes on the shore.

do you think that john #2 is the same guy that jb's neighbor witnesses that night when jb and another man were loading a uhaul with only a tiny light on early morning around 2am?

 

[concernedmother]

They are saying on abc news that their be a cop involved? I wondered about that when that cop just drove by and saw one of the bodies.

 

[tlcya]

Being covered on ABC world new tonight. Suggesting that some cops are beginning to fear perp may be insider, LE or some sort of LE association

 

[MsFacetious]

Interview with SG's sister Tonight! Gerarldo at Large interview tonight at 10p E/T on the Fox News Channel.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Praying-for-Shannan-Maria-Gilbert/168485149857128?v=wall

 

[Wondergirl]

I am going to throw this out there, despite the massive geographical distance involved.

A Canadian Escort named Kera Freeland, who advertised on Craig's List, was recently found murdered in a ditch, near Toronto, Ontario.

She was last known to be on a "bad date".

The jogger who found her thought she was a "mannequin".

There was another escort found murdered in a stream near Windsor, Ontario (close to Detroit) recently also. Not sure if she advertised on Craig's List, though.

When a teenage Kera Freeland posted the escort ad on Craigslist, she was excited to make some money and take control of life.

http://www.thestar.com/news/article/958793--dead-escort-had-no-sense-of-fear

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/sicko_call_from_slay_gal_cell_5COah6gj6Xkk2gT4KgekcI

here's the post link

it says melissa was strangled.

so the sk(s) stores the girls prior to dumping them? makes me think about jb in the dark with a friend and that uhaul truck...

and that makes me think about when i was watching a case on the id channel where a killer stored a body in a uhaul inside a refrigerator.

for this killer to hoard bodies until he has 4 is insane. it's more risky to have 4 bodies on your property or in your car, and even worse to have to transport all 4 for dumping. this guy is really bold, and i wouldn't be surprised if he has an accomplice.

the post says that suffolk claims they have no suspect, however a source (a source that was likely paid a large amount of money by the paper) says they have been watching someone for days.

if they have a poi they're watching, then they know his background and that would be why they know he's a cop or has been?

another odd thing that's not been mentioned in the past news, is that the sk has been harrassing melissa's sister, amanda alot longer than i thought. evidently a couple months as opposed to the several calls previously reported.

in the case of waterman, it seems when akeem called her at 1:30am, that's when she likely knew she was to go to a client and left the hotel walking.
if she was walking, then she didn't have a ride. did someone meet her? did she take a cab to the sk client?


what i'm curious to know is how le can tell that the sk kept the victims prior to disposing of them?
le found the remains in various states of severe decomp.
it would seem more likely the killer buried them there one at a time, instead of hoarding bodies.
the killer could memorize where he buried the victims by mile markers, or even gps.

just because le found the victims in different states of decomp, doesn't prove the sk(s) held onto the bodies for awhile before burying them.
just proves that the sk uses the same dumping grounds for his victims.
and that he killed them at various different times.

does anyone know what they mean by suggesting the sk kept some of the bodies prior to disposing?

it sounds like some type of mispeak. why hold onto corpses? that's what gets people in trouble. if the sk actually goes through all the trouble of removing personal affects off the victims, then why would he hold onto bodies?

i still think he dumped them one at a time. otherwise what's he going to do? bring a load of 4 and drive down the road with a tape measure while dumping them? that's insane!

the whole spacing apart bit seems a major part of the sk's m.o. between li and ac girls.

I assume, for example, that the medical examiner determined that one of the bodies had been deceased for 30 days, yet the body doesn't display 30 days of decomposition especially if it had been exposed to the elements for 30 days. This means that it was frozen for a period of time before being dumped. I'm not stating this as fact but as a scenario.

Oh, and why hold on to corpses?

Well, a real sick SOB would hold onto corpses to probably have sex with if that's his thing. Maybe he plays dress up with them. Maybe he just likes to look at them and relish them in that state. Maybe he has conversations with them, "Look what you made me do you filthy..." Maybe he wants some friends for a while. Maybe he kills and then takes the time to scope out a dumping area noting busy and deserted times. But I definitely believe that he holds onto them to play out some sick fantasy which would be his signature.