NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[Sistah Sleuth]

'All died from strangulation, their corpses stashed before being dumped'.

That caught my eye too. There has to be some clue to that. If the bodies were always stashed in the some place there could be something at that place to be a constant and affect all the bodies, right? I would tend to think it would be chemical rather than fibers.

These 4 gals were found wrapped in burlap/burlap bags and if he removed their personal effects and clothing first before stashing them, it could be their bodies picked up something he had no idea of that was there. The burlap wrappings would have one type of fiber but whatever was the constant would have to have different fibers.

OR . . .

Maybe they were washed with embalming fluid or some other fluid as that would be a detectable constant. Or else set in powdered lime which would leave a residue. I think they would be able to tell forensically at what point in time the body had been exposed to these things.

I remember they believed Madeleine McCann's body had been treated that way as the family had bought formaldahyde {sp} at a local store. I don't think it would be an uncommon thing to do

I've been pondering about where he would kill and store the bodies for a while. It must be in his house. It's definitely a place where he feels comfortable. I never believed for a second that he killed those women in the motel in which they were discovered behind. He transported them there from somewhere. If the two cases are connected then I have to ask does he live on LI or in AC? The AC victims are from AC. He must have a place there where he has no worries as he plays out his fantasy. The LI victims...only one was from LI and I think the others are from out of state.

Either he has dual residences on LI and in AC or he is a truck driver. However, I lean more towards the sk being financially well and in the beginning of the LI case I thought he was a white collar worker who lives on LI and travels to work to the city. I don't know why I feel at times that he is lawyer or a successful business man of some sort. He may even be married with kids. But for sure, he is meticulous to a point that it annoys those around him especially at work. He's quite anal retentive, a micro-manager and obsessive about things. He's just not easy to work with nor under--outside of that he's likable and nobody has anything else bad to say about him other than the complaints of working with him.

That's just my theory but what do I know?

 

[scandi]

http://www.facebook.com/pages/Praying-for-Shannan-Maria-Gilbert/168485149857128?v=wall

That is deserving of a special thanks MxFacetious. xox

 

[Wondergirl]

I'm still looking for the overhead shot of the AC body dump and ran across the below snip. So it appears that maybe the bodies in AC weren't facing east. But their faces were facing east or bent at the neck? Not sure if this means much, food for thought. Back to searching for that pic.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=41917

(snip)
The details of the crime scene are eerie. According to investigators, each body was dumped about 60 feet from the last, and all of their faces were positioned in the same peculiar way -- with their heads facing east, toward Atlantic City. All of the victims were wearing clothes on their bodies, but were all missing their shoes and socks. Medical examiners told police that the women were not killed at the same time, although it appears that they were all killed within a month of one another.

Thank-you for this very valuable snip, Suziq.

Each body was dumped 60 feet from the last? WTH?????

Why did the SK change the distance, from 60 feet to 500 feet, and how far apart were the latest batch of bodies found from each other? If the most recent bodies were actually dumped in the time between the AC bodies and the December batch, but they were not specifically spaced apart from each other, then why weren't they????

Four killings within one month seems very compulsive, to say the least.

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

I do not think buying disposable Cell phones is as easy as the Press would like you to believe.

I was discussing this issue with somebody this morning. And they said that they could see how hard it would be to trace them. You just buy the phone, punch in a code and use it until you've exhausted the amount of money on the account. Because there isn't a contract and you can buy them in a gas station, bodega, Walmart, Best Buy etc., there is nothing to attach them to specific customers. Anyway, that was what I was told...I don't know. Actually, I didn't realize that throw away cell phones existed.

 

[svpernin]

You mean the person who called pretended to be someone else. If so, that person is real and we have found out some oddish/negative things about him.

I don't see why posters think this caller was not who he said he was. Shannan had no reason to lie about his name either. Sherre said Shannan said his name many times on the 911 call and said he was trying to kill her.

I am open to the possibility but the more I learn about this guy I see red flags popping up all over the place.

I wonder if these guys all partied together who lived there and what an odd group they would make.

Scandi, sorry if you already addressed this question in a prior post but I'm still unclear about something. Where did you hear who SG named in that 911 call? I don't think that information has been released yet. I listened to the radio interview and SG's sister didn't say that the person who called her mom was the person who SG named in the 911 tape.

 

[Wondergirl]

According to AMW, the 4 AC women, were found face down in water:

Investigators say each body was found face down in several inches of water in a ditch behind a strip of seedy motels.

http://www.amw.com/fugitives/brief.cfm?id=41917

 

[Herding Cats]

This 4 thing. It's really the only thing which is connecting the AC w/ the LI bodies, I think. I don't know anything about numerology, but I'm thinking 4 is a powerful number to the sk...but I don't know why.

4 score and 7?
4 corners to a square (completion?)

Dunno. But if someone who knew about numerology thought about this, it may indeed be important in an expression of motivation/spirituality of the sk.

I think they are connected, the AC and the LI. And I think the spacing in LI is not incidental - it's purposeful. But how does that fit into the plan...just dunno.

I have a few questions.

1. Aside from Barthelemy, do any of the victims have a younger sister?
2. Which other families have gotten phone calls (other than SG - and does she have a younger sister?)
3. Has there been any searching done in the quadrants (there's 4 again) on either side of the dumping grounds? If so, what was found, and if not, why not?

If he's thinking along the lines of someone who posted earlier, 1/10th of a mile is +/- 500 feet. I think he's either doing it in sets of 4, or is doing it for a mile (which means 2 more bodies are left to discover). Not sure...

I don't know if LE is involved...and I'm thinking not. Unless there is something significant - like a note left, or some other indication like particular restraint techniques, et cetera - all the other stuff (timing on phone, use of disposables, being in a crowd) can be easily thought through if someone were of average intelligence and also read some books and/or CSI et al (shoot, even TH used disposable telephones). So I'm not at all convinced that the sk is le, former or otherwise.

I admire all the sleuthing done on this thread. Some seriously good observations and connections have been made, and I can only hope that LI LE is thinking along the same lines.

Best-
Herding Cats

 

[trigger]

A detective with knowledge of the case tells ABC News that the suspect seems to have keen awareness of investigative techniques and may well have experience in law enforcement.

He's got a ritual. He probably packages the bodies that when he reaches the point of getting rid of the evidence, no one is going to be drawn to that particular site," said Lawrence Kobilinsky, a Professor of Forensics.

Detectives said it appears some victims had been dead for a long time.

The first went missing in 2007; a second in 2009 and the remaining two in June and September 2010.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8061689

(sorry if already posted) Now ill catch up...

 

[mysteriew]

I have a dumb question. Sorta a question. Or maybe just a thought.

Ok, from what I have read there seems to be some question as to whether there is one sk, two sk's working together and/or is there maybe some relation to the sk in NJ.


This is pure conjecture and a figment of my imagination. Not to be confused with sleuthing or any type of factual work.

Ok, what if an sk who was working in one area went on vacation in another state. And while there he began evaluating his surroundings for dump potential, as sk's are prone to do. And he happened to notice that there was possibly already a body buried. Then another. What if he liked this dump site and liked the idea of using someone else's site?

 

[scandi]

Thank-you for this very valuable snip, Suziq.

Each body was dumped 60 feet from the last? WTH?????

Why did the SK change the distance, from 60 feet to 500 feet, and how far apart were the latest batch of bodies found from each other? If the most recent bodies were actually dumped in the time between the AC bodies and the December batch, but they were not specifically spaced apart from each other, then why weren't they????

Four killings within one month seems very compulsive, to say the least.

There was a statement accredited to LE right after they found the last bodies that they thought all 8 were the work of a SK. Then they also said the SK changed his method of disposal with the last 4.

That tells us there had to be constants to make LE believe that even if 4 were stripped naked and the other 4 weren't. And there also must be something that is a constant factor between the 4 in AC and the 8 in LI.

Any constant spacing, even if the yardage changes, could make LE believe the spacing itself was part of the MO of this person. SK's change and fine tune their MO's, right? IMO

 

[Sistah Sleuth]

There was a statement accredited to LE right after they found the last bodies that they thought all 8 were the work of a SK. Then they also said the SK changed his method of disposal with the last 4.

That tells us there had to be constants to make LE believe that even if 4 were stripped naked and the other 4 weren't. And there also must be something that is a constant factor between the 4 in AC and the 8 in LI.

Any constant spacing, even if the yardage changes, could make LE believe the spacing itself was part of the MO of this person. SK's change and fine tune their MO's, right? IMO

Yes, MO's can change but the signature never changes.

 

[scandi]

A detective with knowledge of the case tells ABC News that the suspect seems to have keen awareness of investigative techniques and may well have experience in law enforcement.

He's got a ritual. He probably packages the bodies that when he reaches the point of getting rid of the evidence, no one is going to be drawn to that particular site," said Lawrence Kobilinsky, a Professor of Forensics.

Detectives said it appears some victims had been dead for a long time.

The first went missing in 2007; a second in 2009 and the remaining two in June and September 2010.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8061689

(sorry if already posted) Now ill catch up...

Thanks Trigger, That makes sense. In one article {there have been soooo many in this case ;} it referred to the bodies as 'bones'. You could be right and he waits till the bodies become skeletonized so there is no odour.

I think one of the first NG shows I watched she mentioned the possibility of the 'rendering' of the bodies where the tissue would liquify. I always wondered what put that tic in her bonnet but maybe she was told they were mostly bones.

However we have also read they were in different stages of decomp.

??? ???

 

[scandi]

Yes, MO's can change but the signature never changes.

I had to look up 'signature' LOL and found this site w/ allot of info about SK's:http://karisable.com/crserial1.htm

That link says there are 3 types of SK's:
* Thrill Seekers
* Mission Oriented
* Power & Control

Do you think a SK can fit into more than one category? Would you say this guy is Mission Oriented only?

Ta

 

[snapdragon2]

That is deserving of a special thanks MxFacetious. xox

You can thank me for putting it up first! Haha.

 

[carbuff]

Has anyone done a timeline of all the victims, their date of disappearance, their date of discovery?

We've got this, which includes both the known victims and a number of
missing women who seem similar to the known victims. Since all the known victims disappeared in the summer, we were focusing on women who went missing during the summer, but if the Atlantic City victims were killed by the same person, we should look at other times as well.

Also, I want to look north into Canada. It looks like there might be a recent cluster around Toronto.



======================================
Summer 2003 and 2004 -- I didn't find any likely candidates.


08/06/05 Shelly Hart, 24. Hart was last seen on August 6, 2005 in the vicinity of 75 Malcolm X Boulevard in Brooklyn, New York City, New York in the confines of the 79th Precinct.

6 September 2005, Migdalia Garson Diaz, 28, missing from New Haven, no other info

6 October 2005, Lisa Calvo, 40, missing from New Haven

6 April 2006, Jessica Morales, missing from Dorchester, MA. Described as a high-risk runaway, very petite.

15 July 2006, Shirley Moon Atwood, 35, missing from Pittsfield/Canaan, Maine. http://www.nampn.org/cases/atwood_shirley.html Looks very much like the four identified women.

07/30/06...NY...Michelle Lyn Hutchings, age 27 http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/h/hutchings_michelle.html May have been seen in the New Jersey area in 2007.

09/10/06...NJ...Jessica L. Paolini, age 22 http://www.nampn.org/cases/paolini_jessica_l.html, known to frequent the same Camden area several other women have disappeared from.

09/18/06...NY...Jessica Isabel Rodriguez, age 27 http://www.nampn.org/cases/rodriguez_jessica_isabel.html


14 June 2007, Thursday -- Krissy Pruitt, last seen in New Haven.

27 June 2007, Olivia Arrington, last seen in Manhattan in the vicinity of West 87th Street and Central Park West. http://www.nampn.org/cases/arrington_olivia.html

*Maureen Barnes.....last seen Monday, 7-9-07

This is the Monday after the 4th of July, which was on a Wednesday that year. Lots of people (including us) took Wednesday through Sunday as a very long holiday weekend.

21 August 2007, Tuesday -- Elizabeth Barrett, 43, boarded a bus in Springfield Ma. on her way home to Greensboro NC. She was seen getting off the bus at NYC Port Athority for her tranfer bus and was never seen again. Her luggage arrived at the Greensboro Greyhound bus station 1 day after she was due to arrive. According to Greyhound her luggage was forwarded from NYC. http://www.nampn.org/cases/barrett_elizabeth.html

Brittany Peart, 7/25/08 but probably seen after this date heading north. http://www.nampn.org/cases/peart_brittany.html

Judy Rivers, Fairfield area, Saturday August 30, 2008. She is believed to be a runaway. Per the Norwalk Police Department, Judy is a ward of the State of New York who was placed in Connecticut. She left with a boyfriend and has not been seen or heard from since.

Maria Claros, Hartford, Hartford, Friday July 03, 2009, MARIA'S LAST C0NTACT WAS BY CELL PH0NE WHEN SHE T0LD M0THER SHE WAS IN NEW YORK.

*Melissa Barthelemy.....Last seen, Sunday, 7-12-09

Fourth of July was the weekend before, with many people getting the holiday on July 6. So this might have been the first available weekend.

Leslie Colon, New Haven, Monday July 13, 2009, very little data

Angelica Cruz, New Haven, Saturday September 04, 2009 - 03:00 Angelica may be traveling in the company of an adult male. She may travel out of state.

Shannon Gilbert.......last seen, Saturday, May 1, 2010

This is quite early in the year relative to the others, and on a different day. The circumstances don't seem to necessarily fit, either.

*Megan Waterman.......last seen, Sunday, 6-6-10

An ordinary weekend.

Elena Jazmir Lozada, Missing, Tuesday, 7-6-10

This is the Tuesday after the 4th of July weekend, which was a three-day weekend with Monday the holiday. https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/8308/0/

*Amber Costello......last seen, Tuesday, 9-7-10

This is the day after Labor Day, which was rather late last year.

 

[Verity]

snipped:

If he's thinking along the lines of someone who posted earlier, 1/10th of a mile is +/- 500 feet. I think he's either doing it in sets of 4, or is doing it for a mile (which means 2 more bodies are left to discover). Not sure...

That was me, the post is here:

Option 1: http://www.greaternyroads.info/refmark.htm roads marked in 10ths of a mile. There are 5280ft in a mile, so 1/10th =528ft . Rounded down for or by the press, and given the not exact science of measuring spaces of old graves of an indeterminate width......center to center, or outside edge to outside edge, I'd say this theory has legs.

This theory is based on his using road markers every 1/10th of a mile on Ocean Parkway to measure the distances and mark where he dumped them, but we don't have a visual on this yet. Please, if you're in Google images for Ocean Parkway, or browsing MSM shots of the search, past or future, please keep an eye out for one of these - we really need a match on this one. The link above shows you what they look like - they're GREEN signs.

Thanks.

 

[Wondergirl]

I wonder if the perp got poison ivy too?

Police said as many as 20 officers had been infected with poison ivy during recent searches, and there also were concerns about ticks.

http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=news/local/long_island&id=8050530

 

[scandi]

You can thank me for putting it up first! Haha.

:bow:

For you Snapdragon Sorry I missed that :tyou: ;}

 

[trigger]

There was a statement accredited to LE right after they found the last bodies that they thought all 8 were the work of a SK. Then they also said the SK changed his method of disposal with the last 4.

That tells us there had to be constants to make LE believe that even if 4 were stripped naked and the other 4 weren't. And there also must be something that is a constant factor between the 4 in AC and the 8 in LI.

Any constant spacing, even if the yardage changes, could make LE believe the spacing itself was part of the MO of this person. SK's change and fine tune their MO's, right? IMO

We need to talk to that actor that on the show NUMBERS...

 

[carbuff]

'All died from strangulation, their corpses stashed before being dumped'.

That caught my eye too. There has to be some clue to that. If the bodies were always stashed in the some place there could be something at that place to be a constant and affect all the bodies, right? I would tend to think it would be chemical rather than fibers.

These 4 gals were found wrapped in burlap/burlap bags and if he removed their personal effects and clothing first before stashing them, it could be their bodies picked up something he had no idea of that was there. The burlap wrappings would have one type of fiber but whatever was the constant would have to have different fibers.

OR . . .

Maybe they were washed with embalming fluid or some other fluid as that would be a detectable constant. Or else set in powdered lime which would leave a residue. I think they would be able to tell forensically at what point in time the body had been exposed to these things.

I remember they believed Madeleine McCann's body had been treated that way as the family had bought formaldahyde {sp} at a local store. I don't think it would be an uncommon thing to do

I was wondering about the powdered lime as well. Lime is very commonly used in the east as a soil conditioner and one popular brand usually comes in a bag that can be described as burlap or canvas. I'll see if I can get a picture next time I'm at the garden store. If he's wrapping the bodies in burlap and lime...