NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3

[Verity]

I do not think there was a boat involved in any of this.

Having read this from snapdragon on top of everything else: [ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6319298&postcount=605"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - NY-LI-4 bodies on Beach-Possible SK-12/10-All id'd,4 more found 3/11 #3[/ame] I don't disagree with you.

If there is a boat involved, why in the world would the perp drag the bodies to the side of the road??? Why not hide the bodies in the reeds?? Better yet, why not just dump the bodies directly in the water, in the middle of the Great South Bay??

This was specifically about Shannon Gilbert, who hasn't been found yet, and that's what I said, she could be in the bay.

Then, assuming this boating is done at night (because, in the day time there is no way for any of this to happen without someone seeing, especially in the summer), the body of water nearest where the bodies were found is shallow in spots. It would be VERY difficult to navigate in a motor boat, especially at night, even if you knew the area.

I'll defer to you, I never drove it. I am constantly in awe of captains around here who navigate channels at night because they grew up with them. What about the bay next to JB's house? It's not where the bodies were found, but beach opposite his lot would be where a boat (if any) would lick up and drop off. Is it all 5mph no wake zone there BTW, or can you open up in the channel between FI and Oak Beach?

And, finally, if one did use a boat, where the bodies were found is not quite as close to the water as it appears. It would be a haul from boat to road, that's for sure.

I'm going with motor vehicle...

Me too, I was never suggesting otherwise for her arrival, only for departure and disposal.....but reading between the lines, I'm just looking for an excuse to take a boat out that I don't own to test the route between Fire Island and Oak Beach that I don't think was ever taken by SG - fun day out tho!!!!! Please send boat..... :sigh:

 

[Chanler]

I have worked on a lot of cases and I find this one to be the most frustrating in terms of ASSUMPTIONS that are made and posted as FACT.

Can we please follow up FACTS with links?

If someone writes "I think that..." or "Maybe..." it does not mean that IT IS. And until someone produces a link showing PROOF of such a thing, it only harms our sleuthing to state it as fact.

I can't even read through the confusion over the doctor and the phone call to SG's mother and the drifter and oh some random neighbor that everyone has been sleuthing simply because he is a doctor, poor guy can't travel the world without making it look like he's killing women in Hawaii...

Hi, ElizaArden, Bravo! There is so much confusion in this case, fed, I think, by the paucity of solid information available to us. So much of it is focused on the Shannan case, which might not be connected with this serial killer case at all.

 

[SuziQ]

Omg, I finally found the AC body dump pic!

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/11/23/nyregion/23slay.2.ready.html

The police placed four white dots on the picture to show where the bodies were found, in a ditch behind the Golden Key Motel on the Black Horse Pike.

ETA: goes with this article. You might have to register to read.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/23/nyregion/23slay.html?_r=1

 

[Chanler]

Omg, I finally found the AC body dump pic!

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2006/11/23/nyregion/23slay.2.ready.html

The police placed four white dots on the picture to show where the bodies were found, in a ditch behind the Golden Key Motel on the Black Horse Pike.

The bodies don't seem to have been evenly placed at all. Another theory that needs to be discarded.....

 

[SuziQ]

The bodies don't seem to have been evenly placed at all. Another theory that needs to be discarded.....

ITA. I see a pattern of exact measurement on the bodies on the end. Like I said earlier, morse code or something.

 

[cluciano63]

I don't think that anyone needs to be LE or even familiar with LE these days to know about cell phone pings and other ways to conceal evidence. In fact I am often more surprised when criminals don't take precautions than when they do.

 

[Chanler]

I don't think that anyone needs to be LE or even familiar with LE these days to know about cell phone pings and other ways to conceal evidence. In fact I am often more surprised when criminals don't take precautions than when they do.

Hi, Cluciano63. I agree; with the number of CSi-style crime dramas crowding the air, it is a bit surprising. But most of these misfits live more for their macabre pleasure than for careful planning.

On a side question, has it been established that the serial killer used any of his victim's phones?

 

[Verity]

His wife???

I'd like to see proof of this.

I find it more likely that she is his sister:

- person with the same unique name (first and last) graduated from the same high school as JB
- JB's mother is of the same decent as the country that the liquor store owner's name refers to

You're never going to get definitive proof of who owns the Liquor Store unless you order a Title report, but online records show two owners, one male, one female with same last name.

I don't find it unusual that the wife referred to it as her business. They are married. That's what happens when you're married; your spouse claims property as their own, even though they're not on the deed.

 

[carbuff]

ITA. I see a pattern of exact measurement on the bodies on the end. Like I said earlier, morse code or something.

long short long would be K. Long short short long would be X. It would read the same no matter which end you start at.

 

[Chanler]

long short long would be K. Long short short long would be X. It would read the same no matter which end you start at.

Hi, Carbuff and SuziQ; you might both be right. My sense is that a man toting a heavy body bag in the vicinity of a populated place has more pressing matters on his mind than surveying. To me, the most striking feature was the great distance between the extreme locations. However, three locations are within walking distance of what looks like a parking lot.

 

[SuziQ]

long short long would be K. Long short short long would be X. It would read the same no matter which end you start at.

Thanks! Sooooo, what does that say about the pattern of the two newest sets. Wasn't one of the older murders inside the set of newer ones? Gah, need to find the map with the markers on it.

 

[Filly]

You're never going to get definitive proof of who owns the Liquor Store unless you order a Title report, but online records show two owners, one male, one female with same last name.

I don't find it unusual that the wife referred to it as her business. They are married. That's what happens when you're married; your spouse claims property as their own, even though they're not on the deed.

To be fair. I did not post a link to this on the thread.

It is the biological sister not the wife, and the sister claims she owns the store in her own words after someone served minors.

 

[SuziQ]

Hi, Carbuff and SuziQ; you might both be right. My sense is that a man toting a heavy body bag in the vicinity of a populated place has more pressing matters on his mind than surveying. To me, the most striking feature was the great distance between the extreme locations. However, three locations are within walking distance of what looks like a parking lot.

You would think so. It had to be previously plotted and planned out. That placement is perfectly imperfect. That Egg Harbor area is busy with all kinds of nefarious traffic 24/7. You wouldn't want to come across a hooker and a john looking for a private spot back there.

 

[Filly]

Christians don't pray facing East, we pray in any direction However, it is Christian tradition to be buried facing toward the east.

True. We pray UP!:innocent:Blessings come down. I had the whole Catholic altar on my mind and how the Priest used to keep his back to us.

 

[carbuff]

Hi, Carbuff and SuziQ; you might both be right. My sense is that a man toting a heavy body bag in the vicinity of a populated place has more pressing matters on his mind than surveying. To me, the most striking feature was the great distance between the extreme locations. However, three locations are within walking distance of what looks like a parking lot.

It looks like it's just an empty lot, and he would have been pretty much invisible as soon as he got away from the street. It does not appear to be an area overly supplied with street lights.

[ame="http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=Golden+Key+Motel,+8030+Black+Horse+Pike,+Pleasantville,+NJ+08232-2855&aq=0&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=29.578161,79.013672&ie=UTF8&hq=Golden+Key+Motel,&hnear=8030+Black+Horse+Pike,+Pleasantville,+Atlantic,+New+Jersey+08232&ll=39.378414,-74.489837&spn=0.007033,0.01929&t=h&z=16&layer=c&cbll=39.378362,-74.489722&panoid=6X_dCW4uH1iPmPNPz-1_bg&cbp=12,9,,0,7.53"]Golden Key Motel[/ame]

 

[fashionella]

I finally got around to listening to the podcast interview with Sheree, SG sister. A lot here are focusing on the odd Dr. episode. But what struck me the most, and what I find damning for JB is what Sheree says he said when they asked him what happened the week before...JB claims he told SG to leave because (paraphrasing) "she wasn't what he expected, looked different from her picture online". I think that is almost a cliche line. At 4:20 in the morning, she's already been there several hours and now she has called 911(something escorts never do) screaming, convinced she is going to die. He had his lies ready...if the cops arrived on scene he was ready to say..."she's an insane drug addict, I didn't use her, I didn't pay her she was ugly" I also read that in another interview he said he was caught offguard that she came with a driver, don't know what groundwork he was laying there, something though. I think the Asian was providing prey for him, I think the Asian drove her there but he was the broker and SG put it together at some point in the night that she had no protection and that the Asian and people in the house were very bad. Maybe that's the groundwork: JB can claim he doesn't know the Asian if it ever came to that. Sorry to generalize, but Asians are not common in that area of LI, that is standing out to me, he definitely works for an escort ring. He booked her, she may have come with him, but she wasn't getting into that car with him and there's a reason for that.

 

[Soulmagent]

This is what I thought of when I saw the 2006 photo from AC where LE had placed the dots. Like a life size diagram.In both cases. IMO

http://www.biology.arizona.edu/human_bio/problem_sets/DNA_forensics_2/09t.html

 

[gngr~snap]

ITA. I see a pattern of exact measurement on the bodies on the end. Like I said earlier, morse code or something.

:waitasec: ??? BRAILLE ???

 

[epiphany]

I finally got around to listening to the podcast interview with Sheree, SG sister. A lot here are focusing on the odd Dr. episode. But what struck me the most, and what I find damning for JB is what Sheree says he said when they asked him what happened the week before...JB claims he told SG to leave because (paraphrasing) "she wasn't what he expected, looked different from her picture online". I think that is almost a cliche line. At 4:20 in the morning, she's already been there several hours and now she has called 911(something escorts never do) screaming, convinced she is going to die. He had his lies ready...if the cops arrived on scene he was ready to say..."she's an insane drug addict, I didn't use her, I didn't pay her she was ugly" I also read that in another interview he said he was caught offguard that she came with a driver, don't know what groundwork he was laying there, something though. I think the Asian was providing prey for him, I think the Asian drove her there but he was the broker and SG put it together at some point in the night that she had no protection and that the Asian and people in the house were very bad. Maybe that's the groundwork: JB can claim he doesn't know the Asian if it ever came to that. Sorry to generalize, but Asians are not common in that area of LI, that is standing out to me, he definitely works for an escort ring. He booked her, she may have come with him, but she wasn't getting into that car with him and there's a reason for that.

I could be totally confused now, but I believe that Shannan's driver=Shannan's boyfriend=Shannan's pimp. I've read it more than once in the MSM:

The boyfriend, who was also her pimp, had driven Gilbert to Fire Island to hook up with a client Gilbert met on Craigslist, police said.

...was last seen by her boyfriend at about 6 a.m. May 1 running down a residential street in Oak Beach, N.Y., which lies to just to the west of Fire Island, police said.

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10497.0

"She was a prostitute working off Craigslist and accompanied by a pimp. We located the pimp originally, spoke to him and got some information from him. It's still all part of this investigation," Dormer said.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/bodies-long-island-beach-serial-killer-loose/story?id=12399090

Gilbert, who police describe as a prostitute, had arranged to meet a client on Fire Island and drove there with her boyfriend.

The boyfriend, who police believe was also her pimp, told cops he last saw her on May 1 at 6 a.m.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/missing_jersey_city_woman_shan.html

 

[Soulmagent]

I could be totally confused now, but I believe that Shannan's driver=Shannan's boyfriend=Shannan's pimp. I've read it more than once in the MSM:

The boyfriend, who was also her pimp, had driven Gilbert to Fire Island to hook up with a client Gilbert met on Craigslist, police said.

...was last seen by her boyfriend at about 6 a.m. May 1 running down a residential street in Oak Beach, N.Y., which lies to just to the west of Fire Island, police said.

http://projectjason.org/forums/index.php?topic=10497.0

"She was a prostitute working off Craigslist and accompanied by a pimp. We located the pimp originally, spoke to him and got some information from him. It's still all part of this investigation," Dormer said.

http://abcnews.go.com/TheLaw/bodies-long-island-beach-serial-killer-loose/story?id=12399090

Gilbert, who police describe as a prostitute, had arranged to meet a client on Fire Island and drove there with her boyfriend.

The boyfriend, who police believe was also her pimp, told cops he last saw her on May 1 at 6 a.m.

http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2010/12/missing_jersey_city_woman_shan.html

I know we keep going thought this. I dont know who to believe anymore.

There are links that say otherwise as well. So I would ask on Shannon's facebook wall and go with that answer. I will take what Shannons family says over the media at this point.