NY-Long Island-4 bodies on Beach-Possible Serial Killer-Dec 2010 #2

[Pinkhammer]

PJ is Port Jefferson. Nice village with a main street on the north shore.

It is a lovely old town. Perry Como lived there, right? And his kids went to St. Peter of Alcantara.

 

[Chanler]

I want to add something to the bi-polar discussion.

It is very possible that she didn't medicate. I know someone who has this problem and refuses meds even though they help. In Vegas, New Years Eve weekend a few years ago, he got really POed about something that I don't even remember and ran off for HOURS. Literally at least 4 hours - in Vegas at night. NYE weekend. Everyone was flipping out because this person was being so incredibly irrational and we were afraid he was going to hurt himself or someone else. I am not trying to say that SGs reaction is unimportant because it is SO important. I'm just trying to find another explanation behind her seemingly strange and erratic behavior. The reason I think this may be a possibility is that she ran from GC's house which was a safe place and this doesn't make sense to me.

Hi, Claudette; thanks for bringing that up. My bipolar OCD in-law has had extreme reactions to both overmedication and refusal to medicate. Shannan's problems also include illegal drugs.

 

[Pinkhammer]

It is a lovely old town. Perry Como lived there, right? And his kids went to St. Peter of Alcantara.

I left LI 40 years ago, so forgive my poor memory.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

LI police believe they may have found a link between the Atlantic City murders and the Gilgo Beach murders!

How odd, being that we were just discussing AC.

I just spent some time researching Kim Roffa and I'm not buying the connection between her spending 5 weeks on Long Island before she died and the AC murders. She has family that lives on Long Island, and not "near" Oak Beach.

Yeah, maybe the AC and LI murders are linked but not via her, IMO.

 

[scandi]

LI police believe they may have found a link between the Atlantic City murders and the Gilgo Beach murders!

How odd, being that we were just discussing AC.

Thanks so much for bringing that here so fast ;} Wonder what the link is that wasn't obvious before? Not the spacing IMO. I can't think of anything, as even being prostitutes they were in a different category.

Maybe it is the girl found in AC who had also been up in LI, her boyfriend that is. His name began with A.

Maybe they read about him here at WS. LOL Hey, it happens. We had a police force from Montana join WS and they'd sit in their office and read it and were totally intrigued. Ya Ya

 

[katydid23]

Hi there, I read somewhere that the driver was her pimp and her BF. Does anyone know where that came from, like a link? Thanks, because that info makes a big difference in Sleuthing the case.

Earlier, upthread, there are posts which give the name of her boyfriend. He was not the same person as the driver. Two different people. One of them might have been her pimp however.

 

[snapdragon2]

Hi, SnapDragon2, and welcome! As far as I have read, no one has said that the 911 tape has led the police into believing that Shannan was pulled into a truck. That, of course, would be major news.

There are multiple witnesses to Shannan's visit: Her john; the driver (who she presumably hired); and the old man. There is also the 21-minute 911 audio tape during which she did got to say what she wanted said. In addition, there are cell phone records of the driver to confirm his account.

To believe that Ms. Gilbert was murdered by the john, we would have to believe that he would do so after she alerted emergency services of her peril. To believe that the driver did so would require us to believe that he did so not only after that call, but also after his presumed contact with the old man.

I wish I could share your belief that this crime would be solved soon. I honestly think that it will hang for some time.

Hi,

Subsequent posters quoted the article in which the mother made the comment that Shannon was pulled into a truck - my take from reading that was that she was continually on the phone and it sounded like she was pulled into a vehicle, and that the police arrived shortly after that but she was gone. But that is the only place I read that (which doesn't mean it isn't true of course) - I brought it up because I wondered how much of the 21 or 23 minute phone call, whichever it was, was made outside of the john's house. That is pertinent because they make it sound otherwise like the entire phone call was in the house, which is curious, but that might not be true.

You missed my point about the possibility of the circumstances of the john killing her. I was throwing out the possibility that (hypothetically looking at him as the killer) he never intended to harm her that night (because obviously he could be tied to that)- but that something went down in his house that threatened HIM (as in, revealed what he had been doing) and necessitated him taking the chance of going after her. I would think that anyone killing prostitutes would make sure they were at their most vulnerable and not going to be missed when they did it, which is why I would find it unusual that he would hire her to come to his house and then want to kill her. But a SK of prostitutes may frequent them regardless, and it may have been his intention just to have a "date" with her that night. She may have somehow come across something that revealed what he'd been doing- who knows? or done something that crossed a line or, as I suggested before, drugged her. Once she sounded the alarm, he couldn't just let her go, and since it was still dark, secluded and no police were in sight yet, he still had the opportunity to get her. It's just an idea, and I think it's plausible.

Desperate people do desperate things, so if it was super important to whoever took her to get her and silence her (before the police could get whatever info. she had) it wouldn't be unlikely for that person to take some chances - and SK are pretty bold to begin with.

It's horrible to be hurling accusations at people who may be innocent, but I'm just speculating, because the circumstances are just very strange. But there is one thing I would absolutely bet money on- there is a connection between Shannon and the murdered women. There is no way on earth that is a coincidence. That's what I believe, and since it's a logical starting point anyway, I think it is valuable to exhaust all possibilities of what the possible connection could be before looking elsewhere.

 

[ElizaAvalon]

It is a lovely old town. Perry Como lived there, right? And his kids went to St. Peter of Alcantara.

Port Washington

 

[ElizaAvalon]

Hi,

Subsequent posters quoted the article in which the mother made the comment that Shannon was pulled into a truck - my take from reading that was that she was continually on the phone and it sounded like she was pulled into a vehicle, and that the police arrived shortly after that but she was gone. But that is the only place I read that (which doesn't mean it isn't true of course) - I brought it up because I wondered how much of the 21 or 23 minute phone call, whichever it was, was made outside of the john's house. That is pertinent because they make it sound otherwise like the entire phone call was in the house, which is curious, but that might not be true.

I agree. I have heard rumors that she never went in the house.

I've read that she "ran from the house" but not that she ran out of JB's house.

 

[Pinkhammer]

Brenda Blackmon just gave a short one sentence report. I checked the website and it is not even up on there yet.

I am not surprised that LE reads here for tips. Some of the shrewdest minds on the Web are here on Websleuths.

I will be anxious to hear the news about this AC-LI connection tomorrow.

They must have id'd one of the girls found this week and she must have had an AC connection.

 

[snapdragon2]

Earlier, upthread, there are posts which give the name of her boyfriend. He was not the same person as the driver. Two different people. One of them might have been her pimp however.

I'll have to search for the article, but I read that she was in business for herself. She had previously been working for an escort service, and decided to do her own thing, and advertised on Craigslist. She hired her own driver. That is why I'm wondering how she came to hire that driver - did she already know him, did someone recommend him, did he answer an ad, how long had she been using him.

There are a lot of women who do their own thing and don't have pimps - look at that poor girl who was doing massage and killed by that preppy med student - there are many women advertising on Craigslist for themselves.

 

[Chanler]

Hi there, I read somewhere that the driver was her pimp and her BF. Does anyone know where that came from, like a link? Thanks, because that info makes a big difference in Sleuthing the case.

Hi, Scandi; I think that report was the result of early confusion about the case. I think that he was just a driver.

I don't think that Shannan had a pimp; at least, I can't see why she would need one. The possibility that she had a boyfriend, however, is interesting. Before ChemCopOut kindly shared the video of her mother and sister, I was struck by another televised interview with the mother; towards the end of the dialogue, she suggested obliquely (to my ears, at least) that the investigation for Shannan might not be linked to the recent findings. Perhaps that was a mother's intuition or a mother's hope or perhaps it was her sense or knowledge that her daughter felt threatened that night by some known man in her life.

The line between pimp and boyfriend is, I think, more vague than we outsiders think. I think that often it's better described as dysfunctional symbiotic relationship; even if they're constantly arguing, they live mostly in each other's company.

 

[Pinkhammer]

I just spent some time researching Kim Roffa and I'm not buying the connection between her spending 5 weeks on Long Island before she died and the AC murders. She has family that lives on Long Island, and not "near" Oak Beach.

Yeah, maybe the AC and LI murders are linked but not via her, IMO.

This is going to bug me until LEA reveal the connection (or not).

What could it be? Not the burlap. Maybe they found something on the phone records. Maybe all the girls had the same pimp at one time or another?

Tune in tomorrow, as they say on the radio.

 

[Pinkhammer]

This is probably what My 9 was referring to:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/murders_investigating_possible_link_C7eD0txt9coaCDaitkhHcL

 

[Reannan]

This is going to bug me until LEA reveal the connection (or not).

What could it be? Not the burlap. Maybe they found something on the phone records. Maybe all the girls had the same pimp at one time or another?

Tune in tomorrow, as they say on the radio.

It would be sweet if the connection was DNA.

 

[snapdragon2]

Some people who are bipolar do suffer from delusions in their manic phase. Moreover, some of those afflicted also overmedicate. One of my in-laws qualifies tragically on both counts.

My mother was bi-polar (we called it manic depression then.) She had an out and out psychotic break. But that was unusual (that's how she ended up being diagnosed.) I think the medication mostly evens you out (which is why many stop taking it - they feel too "even" - to the point of being anesthetized.)

I also have a sister who is prone to crazy, dramatic, erratic outbursts (who knows why...!) So I know crazy! But no-one said Shannon had a history of weird outbursts. A lot of people hear "drug user" and "bi-polar" and immediately assume she was off her rocker.

She could have been a bit drunk or maybe she did some drugs, which combined with her (warranted) hysteria made her sound rambling. An escort who has a problem with drinking or alcohol might succumb to temptation and indulge even a bit on a "date" in spite of the dangers of losing control. I'm sure there are some who do it and don't worry. But many escorts wouldn't indulge at all on a date because they have to keep their wits, especially those in business for themselves.

I think it's very possible she was drugged. The date rape pill incapacitates people and it seems like they are drunk - she might have started to feel the effects & realized she had been drugged. That would certainly contribute to her alarm, and also explain any erratic behaviour (apart from fear, that is.)

 

[Chanler]

Hi,

Subsequent posters quoted the article in which the mother made the comment that Shannon was pulled into a truck - my take from reading that was that she was continually on the phone and it sounded like she was pulled into a vehicle, and that the police arrived shortly after that but she was gone. But that is the only place I read that (which doesn't mean it isn't true of course) - I brought it up because I wondered how much of the 21 or 23 minute phone call, whichever it was, was made outside of the john's house. That is pertinent because they make it sound otherwise like the entire phone call was in the house, which is curious, but that might not be true.

You missed my point about the possibility of the circumstances of the john killing her. I was throwing out the possibility that (hypothetically looking at him as the killer) he never intended to harm her that night (because obviously he could be tied to that)- but that something went down in his house that threatened HIM (as in, revealed what he had been doing) and necessitated him taking the chance of going after her. I would think that anyone killing prostitutes would make sure they were at their most vulnerable and not going to be missed when they did it, which is why I would find it unusual that he would hire her to come to his house and then want to kill her. But a SK of prostitutes may frequent them regardless, and it may have been his intention just to have a "date" with her that night. She may have somehow come across something that revealed what he'd been doing- who knows? or done something that crossed a line or, as I suggested before, drugged her. Once she sounded the alarm, he couldn't just let her go, and since it was still dark, secluded and no police were in sight yet, he still had the opportunity to get her. It's just an idea, and I think it's plausible.

Desperate people do desperate things, so if it was super important to whoever killed her to get her and silence her (before the police could get whatever info. she had) it wouldn't be unlikely for that person to take some chances - and SK are pretty bold to begin with.

It's horrible to be hurling accusations at people who may be innocent, but I'm just speculating, because the circumstances are just very strange. But there is one thing I would absolutely bet money on- there is a connection between Shannon and the murdered women. There is no way on earth that is a coincidence. That's what I believe, and since it's a logical starting point anyway, I think it is valuable to exhaust all possibilities of what the possible connection could be before looking elsewhere.

Hi, SnapDragon; I like your posts.

We only have second-hand memories of what was said on the tape, but the mother did say that the person named on the 911 call was not the john.

A 21-minute 911 call is most unusual and we know that Shannan was on the phone in the presence of both the john and the driver. You are right to say that people do terrible things in the heat of the moment, but I think that they are much, much less likely to do them when another person (the driver) and a live police audio witness are present.

Some of my "take" on this incident derives from seeing strung out streetwalkers in my neighborhood. The combination of drugs, alcohol, physical abuse, fear, and sleeplessness took its toll on these poor women.

 

[Soulmagent]

I think in total there where three phones calls to LE that night.

One from G.
One from Shannon in the house of JB
One from Shannons phone which she had while running.

 

[snapdragon2]

Hi, Reannan, there is isn't a crime in the world in which an imaginary accomplice can't be added that would explain away objections. In this case, the john not only called the driver; he apparently allowed Ms. Gilbert to make a 911 call from his house and then leave with the cell phone still in hand.

Who says he "allowed" her to make a call? She was on her own phone. That's why I'm wondering if she might have locked herself in the bathroom or something, a fact he wouldn't likely reveal.

Question - why would the john's name be revealed but not the driver? Is it just that it was easier to find the john's name in these circumstances, or would that be intentional on the part of law enforcement, and if so why? Is that sort of thing typical, and if so what does it signify, if anything? Thanks!

 

[Chanler]

My mother was bi-polar (we called it manic depression then.) She had an out and out psychotic break. But that was unusual (that's how she ended up being diagnosed.) I think the medication mostly evens you out (which is why many stop taking it - they feel too "even" - to the point of being anesthetized.)

I also have a sister who is prone to crazy, dramatic, erratic outbursts (who knows why...!) So I know crazy! But no-one said Shannon had a history of weird outbursts. A lot of people hear "drug user" and "bi-polar" and immediately assume she was off her rocker.

She could have been a bit drunk or maybe she did some drugs, which combined with her (warranted) hysteria made her sound rambling. An escort who has a problem with drinking or alcohol might succumb to temptation and indulge even a bit on a "date" in spite of the dangers of losing control. I'm sure there are some who do it and don't worry. But many escorts wouldn't indulge at all on a date because they have to keep their wits, especially those in business for themselves.

I think it's very possible she was drugged. The date rape pill incapacitates people and it seems like they are drunk - she might have started to feel the effects & realized she had been drugged. That would certainly contribute to her alarm, and also explain any erratic behaviour (apart from fear, that is.)

Hi, SnapDragon, thanks for your candor. Drugs and alcohol do not mix well with medication for bipolar problems. The Jersey City police, who one assumes heard the 911 call, thought that Shannan's bipolar condition, cocaine, and marijuana were important enough to mention in police releases.

And, as has been noted already, the family said that the john was not the person named in the 911 call.