NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[Archangel7]

Quite possibly - but that still would not exonerate Pantaleo for his actions.

What exactly where Pantaleo's actions that you saw that needed exonerating that 23 GJ couldn't see?

 

[popsicle]

There was a doctor on Anderson Cooper last night who said that the autopsy report showed that his Jugular was compressed. His Carotid artery was letting blood into his head but the compression on the Jugular wasn't allowing the blood to flood back down.... don't know who is correct



I thought that policeman was telling him to back off. I've seen that video on youtube and could swear I heard the audio say "move your leg"

edited to say: He says "Watch your foot, move your foot, move your foot"

I saw that too. I will just say that Dr Wecht also made comments about Mike Brown's autopsy that were not accurate... so....at your own risk believe imo.

 

[Zuri]

Personally, I don't know that the chokehold caused his death. I think it was a combo of things, and unfortunately, SG bore most of the responsibility, not the cop. So sorry to even have to type this. Had he not resisted arrest in the first place, had been cooperative, and been in better shape, he probably would be alive today. IMO

 

[jmcgladr]

What exactly where Pantaleo's actions that you saw that needed exonerating that 23 GJ couldn't see?

Using excessive force, in the form of a choke hold which is prohibited by his police force. Not taking action when the man he used the choke hold on to subdue said he couldn't breathe, numerous times, and then stopped breathing.

I can't really believe what I'm reading, that people here believe this was an appropriate use of force. There's no way it was, IMO.

 

[Archangel7]

Yeah, in an ideal crime-free world that has never actually existed. As far as crimes go though, selling loose cigarettes seems incredibly low on the totem pole. I don't know why it's even illegal. Do you have proof that it wasn't a choke hold, or is that just speculation?

I attended two Academys and was an instructor at one. People that vote for Mayors like Blasio are why cigarette sales laws are to be enforced under Broken Window Policing goggle it. Nip the petty crimes and the major crimes vanish. Along with Big Gulp laws and other ridiculous NY Mayor bureaucratic daydreams.

 

[popsicle]

CBS News ‏@CBSNews 28m28 minutes ago
Did police and EMS do enough to save #EricGarner? A second video is raising new questions: http://cbsn.ws/1yCoKAb

 

[Archangel7]

Using excessive force, in the form of a choke hold which is prohibited by his police force. Not taking action when the man he used the choke hold on to subdue said he couldn't breathe, numerous times, and then stopped breathing.

I can't really believe what I'm reading, that people here believe this was an appropriate use of force. There's no way it was, IMO.

Your post would indicate a severe lack of understanding of US laws. Not to mention what a choke hold is. Prohibited doesn't equal against the law. Using force and that relationship with the 4th Amend. and Turner v Garner just to start is a good self education.

 

[CoolJ]

The cops BOSS was right there watching it all. If the cop violated procedure then his boss also takes the blame for not stopping him.

Why do you keep bringing up the boss? How do you know it is the boss? What do you have against "the boss"?

 

[jmcgladr]

I attended two Academys and was an instructor at one. People that vote for Mayors like Blasio are why cigarette sales laws are to be enforced under Broken Window Policing goggle it. Nip the petty crimes and the major crimes vanish. Along with Big Gulp laws and other ridiculous NY Mayor bureaucratic daydreams.

I'm a die hard liberal and yet I do agree with you that DiBlasio seems to be wrong on many levels. And "broken window" policing needs to go. I have actually researched the idea of "broken window policing" and IMO, police need to focus on serious crimes. Which I am sure there are plenty of in NYC and Staten Island. The Big Gulp law was dumb too, but didn't cause the type of problems that "broken window" policing is causing!

 

[popsicle]

I posted the video last night to the LAPD shooting of the guy with a knife. He laid right there in the road and LE walked around him with guns pointed on him until EMS arrived and they scooped him up and took him right away...he died.

 

[jmcgladr]

Your post would indicate a severe lack of understanding of US laws. Especially using force and that relationship with the 4th Amend. and Turner v Garner just to start.

Whatever. Not everyone posting here is a legal scholar, nor do we need to be. This is an international website, BTW. Using a choke hold on a very non-aggressive, non-violent seeming perpetrator for nothing more than selling loose cigs or breaking up a fight seems like a clear case of excessive force to me. I don't really care what Turner v Garner says. <mod snip>

 

[bwt42]

Using excessive force, in the form of a choke hold which is prohibited by his police force. Not taking action when the man he used the choke hold on to subdue said he couldn't breathe, numerous times, and then stopped breathing.

I can't really believe what I'm reading, that people here believe this was an appropriate use of force. There's no way it was, IMO.

Everybody sees things differently. I respect your opinions. My opinion is this was an appropriate use of force,

 

[jmcgladr]

Everybody sees things differently. I respect your opinions. My opinion is this was an appropriate use of force,

Hey, thanks for being nice and respectful about it!

 

[Archangel7]

Whatever. Not everyone posting here is a legal scholar, nor do we need to be. This is an international website, BTW. Using a choke hold on a very non-aggressive, non-violent seeming perpetrator for nothing more than selling loose cigs or breaking up a fight seems like a clear case of excessive force to me. I don't really care what Turner v Garner says. You are being more than a little condescending.

No your post reflects a lack of understanding of rudimentary social laws as they apply to the US. He resisted arrest and force was warranted. The law states a lesser for isn't required, only that the force used was appropriate.

 

[SCHMAE]

In reviewing the video the EMT didn't waste anytime assessing EG's vitals. At 3:58 you can see the EMT arrive. She immediately grabs his wrist to check for a radial pulse and then she check's for a carotid pulse.

I don't know why people feel the EMT's were negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

When I saw the video, I thought they weren't doing much. Yes, I saw the female EMT check the pulse. Then a lot of non urgent non activity. But I do not know much about emergency medical care. When I heard that 4 were suspended ( is it? ) for their roles in it, then I realized my initial reaction was probably right . If their bosses thought they were not doing enough, then they were not. So I'm trusting that much more than my own untrained ' eye' witness of what I saw.

 

[CoolJ]

So far the only folks in America who seem to think there was nothing wrong with what happened to EG are LE and close family and friends of LE. Oh and Rudy Giuliani and Charles Barkley (Nuff said with those two)
The rest of the civilized world sees the problem as clear a day. That is why thousands upon thousands are protesting in every corner of the country. JMO

 

[jmcgladr]

No your post reflects a lack of understanding of rudimentary social laws as they apply to the US. He resisted arrest and force was warranted. The law states a lesser for isn't required, only that the force used was appropriate.

If it's about "rudimentary social laws" (who defines those BTW?) why were you bringing up legal precedents in your last post? And your backing for the force used being appropriate in this specific case is....?

 

[jmcgladr]

So far the only folks in America who seem to think there was nothing wrong with what happened to EG are LE and close family and friends of LE. Oh and Rudy Giuliani and Charles Barkley (Nuff said with those two)
The rest of the civilized world sees the problem as clear a day. That is why thousands upon thousands are protesting in every corner of the country. JMO

Well to be fair, there are a number of people here on WS who are willing to give LE a pass on this too - as per usual... I am surprised but not really, I guess, after spending so much time on the MB thread. But this case seems so much more clear cut!

 

[Archangel7]

So far the only folks in America who seem to think there was nothing wrong with what happened to EG are LE and close family and friends of LE. Oh and Rudy Giuliani and Charles Barkley (Nuff said with those two)
The rest of the civilized world sees the problem as clear a day. That is why thousands upon thousands are protesting in every corner of the country. JMO

While I understand your references, the law as written is clear. There was no criminality, now if you wish to speak about possible civil culpability that is another matter.

 

[SStarr33]

So far the only folks in America who seem to think there was nothing wrong with what happened to EG are LE and close family and friends of LE. Oh and Rudy Giuliani and Charles Barkley (Nuff said with those two)
The rest of the civilized world sees the problem as clear a day. That is why thousands upon thousands are protesting in every corner of the country. JMO

I'm not LE and I am reserving judgement. But what I don't get is why all the protesters never protest over all of the criminals.