NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[epiphany]

<snip> The source also questioned the way the EMT looked for Garner's pulse, noting that a check near the carotid artery would be performed "to the left or the right of the trachea, not on the side of the neck."

Otherwise, the source said, "You're feeling your own pulse in your hand."

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/emts_and_paramedics_who_respon.html

 

[XXXXXXXX]

I work as a vet tech and volunteer at a local shelter. The animals that come into our vet clinic and shelter get better care and more intensive treatment that this man got.

 

[bwt42]

All I can find out about the EMS workers being suspended are from articles written in July.

 

[Elley Mae]

4 EMS Workers Suspended Without Pay in Chokehold Arrest

http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/loca...-Island-Eric-Garner-Video-NYPD-267913291.html

EMTs and paramedics who responded to Eric Garner have been suspended without pay by hospital

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2014/07/emts_and_paramedics_who_respon.html

Two EMTs and two paramedics are now all suspended without pay by Richmond University Medical Center as the hospital conducts its own internal investigation.

http://7online.com/news/bratton-orders-review-of-nypd-training-after-eric-garners-death/197357/


bbm

 

[bexlex]

ah yes.....Alfred Wright, Jasper Texas---Boy the left went silent when this one didn't turn out the way they wanted.

I better google that...cuz I've never heard of him.....oops

 

[SStarr33]

When I look at EG in the video, I see a bombastic character that perhaps could have been negotiated with in the first place, find out his side of the story, let him calm down, and then arrest him. I don’t know, I just remember a couple of characters in my home town who must have been arrested 100 times a year, and the cops knew them well. Having witnessed a couple of encounters, I remember the cops were patient. --The video of the throw down was so sad and while I am sure LE had no intention of killing the man, it seemed to happen so fast, I am so shocked at the force they used on this unarmed man.

I'm not shocked at all. They need to take down criminals with big time force then maybe they will stop being criminals.

 

[Zuri]

As someone who has EMT's in her family, I can tell you that an unresponsive person gets a heck of a lot more treatment than their pulse being checked. It should look fast and purposeful as they have someone unconscious and don't know the root cause.

Exactly! I didn't see any equipment with them either. Let's face it, 4 of them were suspended without pay. Anyone want to guess why, other than what we have been saying?

 

[SStarr33]

In reviewing the video the EMT didn't waste anytime assessing EG's vitals. At 3:58 you can see the EMT arrive. She immediately grabs his wrist to check for a radial pulse and then she check's for a carotid pulse.

I don't know why people feel the EMT's were negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

Not to mention the video has clearly been edited in numerous places.

 

[SStarr33]

They were negligent (IMO) by assuming just because he (supposedly) had a pulse that he was FINE. Granted the EMTs most likely didn't know he was asthmatic. Just because someone is breathing, doesn't mean they are taking quality breaths.

Anyone with pulmonary disease has reduced blood oxygen even when breathing. The very fact he was unresponsive for 7 minutes (4 minutes prior to EMT, 3 minutes after) should have set off an immediate alert to both EMTs and the LEOs.

Instead, even after the EMTs arrived, there was just a cursory check to see if he had a pulse. Then they stood around staring. Even heard on camera asking "So how many of us is it going to take to get this guy on a stretcher"?

It sounded to me like they were just annoyed about too much heavy lifting for their job grade.

If you have a chronic disease, it is YOUR responsibility to takes steps that the cops know you have that disease (in the case that you are caught breaking the law) not the cops responsibility to dx you at the scene.

 

[jmcgladr]

De Blasio opposes making police chokeholds illegal

http://nypost.com/2014/09/10/de-blasio-opposes-making-police-chokeholds-illegal/

I was happy when DeBlasio got elected. But now I'm not so sure, with the things I'm reading about him...

 

[jmcgladr]

If you have a chronic disease, it is YOUR responsibility to takes steps that the cops know you have that disease (in the case that you are caught breaking the law) not the cops responsibility to dx you at the scene.

How about police officers just not doing a chokehold that is against policy in the first place? Then the medical conditions would have been a non-issue.

 

[jmcgladr]

Exactly! I didn't see any equipment with them either. Let's face it, 4 of them were suspended without pay. Anyone want to guess why, other than what we have been saying?

Everyone's in trouble except the guy who actually did the chokehold and caused the death. It's so strange to me. Even the guy who took the video was indicted... but not the cop! I didn't see much of the EMT interaction (wasn't much of that visible on the video I saw) but it's obvious who is the one who caused the death and yet nothing... even after this cop had a very questionable history in the past, as well.

 

[Archangel7]

How about police officers just not doing a chokehold that is against policy in the first place? Then the medical conditions would have been a non-issue.

No choke hold was used. How about this for a thought......How about criminals just not doing things that are against the law in the first place? Then the medical conditions would have been a non-issue.

 

[Zuri]

In reviewing the video the EMT didn't waste anytime assessing EG's vitals. At 3:58 you can see the EMT arrive. She immediately grabs his wrist to check for a radial pulse and then she check's for a carotid pulse.

I don't know why people feel the EMT's were negligent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vT66U_Ftdng

I just showed this video to my DH MD. He had not seen it before. He had the following comments:
EMT should check pulse for 10 seconds. Radial pulse check is ineffective. Carotid pulse not checked correctly and not for 10 seconds. EMT assessment was inadequate.

The fact that he was in cardiac arrest at the time he hit the ER, 2.5 miles away and was not resuscitated successfully, lends one to believe he was in cardiac arrest prior. I don't know if this helps in explaining why some of us are critical of their actions. IMO

 

[bexlex]

Now that we are learning details from the autopsy report a few things are becoming abundantly clear:

A "choke hold" was not applied to EG. The autopsy showed no damage to his windpipe which would be evident if he had been "choked"

The autopsy showed that blood was cut off to the brain as a result of his carotid arteries being compressed.

What these findings tells us is the officer was not using a choke hold but rather a special neck hold referred to as "carotid restraint" or "sleeper hold"

The sleeper hold which involves cutting off blood flow to the brain for a brief period is not forbidden by the NYPD in fact they are training their officers on the use of this special neck hold.

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/nypd-lessons-force-lapd-article-1.1882111


For this reason alone I can see why the officer involved was not indicted. He was using a perfectly acceptable method to bring a non-compliant man who was resisting arrest to the ground.

I don't know why the autopsy report states COD as "COMPRESSION OF THE NECK (CHOKE HOLD)" when in fact there is no evidence that EG was choked. I thought autopsy reports are supposed to be very precise? I think the report should be corrected (the officer involved should insist on that). The report should state "COMPRESSION OF THE CAROTID ARTERIES (SLEEPER HOLD)"

Now that these facts have come to light the media needs to stop referring to this tragic incident as the "choke hold death of an unarmed man".

There was a doctor on Anderson Cooper last night who said that the autopsy report showed that his Jugular was compressed. His Carotid artery was letting blood into his head but the compression on the Jugular wasn't allowing the blood to flood back down.... don't know who is correct

When I saw the full and unedited video, I got the exact opposite impression than you. It seemed to me that the officer putting his hand on Pantaleo's back seemed to be urging him on. Certainly, the other cops present were piled on top of Garner even after he had stopped moving.

Your interpreting the same video differently than what I interpreted it, is why I feel it's so important to exchange opinions. I really enjoy your posts and the insights you offer.

I thought that policeman was telling him to back off. I've seen that video on youtube and could swear I heard the audio say "move your leg"

edited to say: He says "Watch your foot, move your foot, move your foot"

 

[Sonya610]

Everyone's in trouble except the guy who actually did the chokehold and caused the death. It's so strange to me. Even the guy who took the video was indicted... but not the cop! I didn't see much of the EMT interaction (wasn't much of that visible on the video I saw) but it's obvious who is the one who caused the death and yet nothing... even after this cop had a very questionable history in the past, as well.

The cops BOSS was right there watching it all. If the cop violated procedure then his boss also takes the blame for not stopping him.

 

[jmcgladr]

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2014/12/03/us/2014-12-03-garner-video.html?_r=0

I thought about SG takedown for awhile and have the following thoughts.

SG was reported to have just broken up a fight across the street. He is diaphoretic when the D D officer approaches him. He is clearly agitated and throwing his arms around. Chances are his heart rate is up and he has probably already started to have some respiratory issues, although his speech is fine. The guy in the green shirt takes him down with some kind of chokehold, not what I would call a technical chokehold.

From the angles I watched, the chokehold was not that long. The problem was holding his head down on the pavement IMO, not the chokehold. Another officer places his hand on the green shirted guy's back as if to say back off a bit. Don't know.

So from the initial takedown, SG may have already been compromised prior and the takedown added insult to injury. Perfect Storm. I think the cops noted something was wrong before the EMTs showed up. The EMTs did not wait all that long to ship him. I was puzzled as to why they did not take vital signs or start CPR at the scene. Maybe they figured they were close to the hospital?

I was wondering the same thing about no CPR. When someone is not breathing, no pulse and is technically dead, minutes count. And I saw a long period of time before paramedics arrive, in which the cops were just sitting around, periodically slapping EG's shoulder and doing nothing to save him! All first responders should know CPR, including police - someone should have intervened. Brain death occurs in minutes. It doesn't matter how close they are to the hospital. There is no excuse.

 

[jmcgladr]

The cops BOSS was right there watching it all. If the cop violated procedure then his boss also takes the blame for not stopping him.

Quite possibly - but that still would not exonerate Pantaleo for his actions.

 

[jmcgladr]

No choke hold was used. How about this for a thought......How about criminals just not doing things that are against the law in the first place? Then the medical conditions would have been a non-issue.

Yeah, in an ideal crime-free world that has never actually existed. As far as crimes go though, selling loose cigarettes seems incredibly low on the totem pole. I don't know why it's even illegal. Do you have proof that it wasn't a choke hold, or is that just speculation?

 

[SStarr33]

I just showed this video to my DH MD. He had not seen it before. He had the following comments:
EMT should check pulse for 10 seconds. Radial pulse check is ineffective. Carotid pulse not checked correctly and not for 10 seconds. EMT assessment was inadequate.

The fact that he was in cardiac arrest at the time he hit the ER, 2.5 miles away and was not resuscitated successfully, lends one to believe he was in cardiac arrest prior. I don't know if this helps in explaining why some of us are critical of their actions. IMO

According to the time stamps on the video, she starts taking his pulse at the carotid at 4:16 and stops at 4:26