NY - Officer Daniel Pantaleo used deadly chokehold on Eric Garner, Staten Island, July 2014

[SStarr33]

I'd characterize that as "expressing frustration." There is some indication that this officer had been harassing EG in the past.

Link please that this officer had been "harassing" this career criminal.

 

[SStarr33]

Back to this argument again are we? If that is the case then LE would have to assume everyone has a gun and can therefore use lethal force against anybody at anytime.

LOL, according to the GJ, this was not lethal force.

 

[SCHMAE]

Yup. Read it a few days ago on HuffPo:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/12/03/ramsey-orta-indictment-eric-garner_n_6264746.html

Tks for the link He was not indicted for anything related to filming the incident .

'''a grand jury indicted Orta on weapons charges stemming from an arrest by undercover officers earlier that month.

Police alleged that Orta had slipped a .25 caliber handgun into a teenage accomplice's waistband'''''

 

[bwt42]

I wasn't saying anything about you directly. I do find it frustrating that no matter what, people on Websleuths ALWAYS support anything law enforcement does. At least in any case I've every followed. Sometimes police actually are wrong, but you'd never know that here.

I posted many times on the MB case asking questions & saying I hadn't made up my mind. I became frustrated because people on both sides had hardened their positions early on. I do agree that most posters give le the presumption of innocence. Don't take this wrong, but when I saw you join the discussion I knew what side you would be on. Just as predictable are posters on the other side. I'm just as guilty.

 

[SStarr33]

Tks for the link He was not indicted for anything related to filming the incident .

'''a grand jury indicted Orta on weapons charges stemming from an arrest by undercover officers earlier that month.

Police alleged that Orta had slipped a .25 caliber handgun into a teenage accomplice's waistband'''''

Shocking, right? Then take into consideration he peddled a doctored video, tells us all we need to know about that guy.

 

[SCHMAE]

EG should have been viewed as their PATIENT: his beef with LE/NYPD should not be any of their concern MOO.

Agreed x 10. **speculative** Something about the body language of leo's and the emt's on scene made me think that lack of urgency was DUE to something the leos' were relaying to the emt's..
Again ** speculating wildly** but that is what I wonder when watching the video. Seems usually emt's arrive and push everyone out of their way to get in to get to treating.

 

[Archangel7]

It certainly doesn't constitute resisting in my mind. If the law is worded in such an abstract way that you can turn those words around to mean they are resisting, those laws need changing. IMO

When the police went to arrest him he immediately said don't touch me or keep your hands off me. That alone constitutes resisting as does moving you hands away(resisting) while being placed in custody.

 

[CoolJ]

EG should have been viewed as their PATIENT: his beef with LE/NYPD should not be any of their concern MOO.

I agree with this! It is almost like the EMT thought he was faking. Why was she talking to him if he was clearly unresponsive, she did not assess his breathing, she did not check to see if he was responsive to stimuli... It was waaaay out of the ordinary for any EMT or Paramedic, they are VERY well trained. I would say there is a very good chance the cops told her as she was arriving on scene that he was probably faking. JMO

 

[jmcgladr]

Link please that this officer had been "harassing" this career criminal.

It's on the video - here is the exact quote from Eric Garner himself: “Every time you see me, you wanna harass me, you wanna stop me … I’m minding my business, officer.”

You may doubt his credibility, but I see no reason why he'd be lying and it's clear from previous incidents that Pantaleo had that he had a bit of a history of (what I would consider to be) harassing citizens for non-violent crimes.

 

[CoolJ]

LOL, according to the GJ, this was not lethal force.

I guess you didn't understand. I am saying they can't just assume everyone has a gun as that would give them the right to use lethal force on anybody. Obviously that doesn't make sense.... Right??

 

[Archangel7]

Back to this argument again are we? If that is the case then LE would have to assume everyone has a gun and can therefore use lethal force against anybody at anytime.

Read "Terry Stop" Terry v Ohio. Police have a legal right to assume weapons.

 

[jmcgladr]

Shocking, right? Then take into consideration he peddled a doctored video, tells us all we need to know about that guy.

But there are a number of videos, so even if you think his video is "doctored" (do you have a link to prove that?) you can see the same incident from a different angle from one of the other videos.

 

[jmcgladr]

Read "Terry Stop" Terry v Ohio. Police have a legal right to assume weapons.

But you didn't really answer the question - do/should police officers automatically assume everyone they encounter in public is armed?

 

[CoolJ]

When the police went to arrest him he immediately said don't touch me or keep your hands off me. That alone constitutes resisting as does moving you hands away(resisting) while being placed in custody.

I have seen people get arrested and put up an actual fight and not get charged for resisting arrest.
But like I said, if that is the law, it is time for a change. IMO

 

[SStarr33]

I guess you didn't understand. I am saying they can't just assume everyone has a gun as that would give them the right to use lethal force on anybody. Obviously that doesn't make sense.... Right??

Actually, what you said doesn't make sense. Why would they have to use lethal force when they could just handcuff the person?

 

[epiphany]

Unfortunately, EG saying he can't breath is meaningless because cops get complaints like this from criminals all the time.

I'm sure they do, but if you're an officer you should be able to make a good guess that this male is middle-aged and Obese.

 

[SStarr33]

But there are a number of videos, so even if you think his video is "doctored" (do you have a link to prove that?) you can see the same incident from a different angle from one of the other videos.

It has been pointed out numerous times on this thread. It is the video from the Huffington Post and you can see where the female EMT's audio has been cut at about 4:05.

 

[CoolJ]

Read "Terry Stop" Terry v Ohio. Police have a legal right to assume weapons.

Great, more ridiculous case law. Listen, I am not arguing with you. Just disagreeing with these laws you keep citing. We are closer to a Police State than I think people realize.

 

[SStarr33]

I'm sure they do, but if you're an officer you should be able to make a good guess that this male is middle-aged and Obese.

Middle age obese people do not carry guns?

 

[CoolJ]

actually, what you said doesn't make sense. Why would they have to use lethal force when they could just handcuff the person?

exactly!!!