NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

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  • #601
What do you mean? Doesn't it say LIGHT GREEEN "skirt" with "trousers" crossed out (as in "trousers or skirt"/"male or female")? That can't be sHirt, bc right under that it asks "shirt or blouse" UNKNOWN. It sounds like she was wearing a skirt with a "twin set" sweater, with the cardigan closed over the shell. Am I missing something here?

Later: Oops, you meant NamUs, not the PR. I think NamUs misread the PR "skirt" entry as shirt. They have her wearing a GREEN SHIRT (should be SKIRT) and a WHITE SWEATER. Maybe that's what you meant. Okay, brain going down ... making my way to bed :)

GBMG
--Now you are in my time zone!

I think green skirt make sense...
The Night Owl
 
  • #602
One productive thing I can think of to do is to contact the Staten Island Advance and ask them to run a story. If we do this, I think it would need to be a group effort, with enough people sending emails within a short time, to get their attention. Maybe we should wait until mid-late August, and note that the anniversary of her disappearance is approaching.

If they do run a story, they will probably be able to access more information from LE, and would probably track down the brother and fiance for comment...

Just a thought, it's all I can think of to get any more info on this poor girl...
 
  • #603
So, another thought. For the intake officer to record on the interview form just "Germany" -- just going for a moment with the possibility that it's not the country, but Germany, PA -- would that mean the intake officer would also have had to be familiar with Germany, PA? I suppose he/she (yeah, right, "she") could also have misinterpreted/misunderstood the mother's answer to mean the country. Wish we had a birth certificate.

Just a thought, I wonder if she was born at home or in a hospital? I know new hospitals are being built all the time, but did they(the hospitals) ever keep records of births in the 50's?..
 
  • #604
One productive thing I can think of to do is to contact the Staten Island Advance and ask them to run a story. If we do this, I think it would need to be a group effort, with enough people sending emails within a short time, to get their attention. Maybe we should wait until mid-late August, and note that the anniversary of her disappearance is approaching.

If they do run a story, they will probably be able to access more information from LE, and would probably track down the brother and fiance for comment...

Just a thought, it's all I can think of to get any more info on this poor girl...

This is a good idea-I was thinking the same thing (even if they don't end up getting remarks from the fiance or any remaining family members).
 
  • #605
Just a thought, I wonder if she was born at home or in a hospital? I know new hospitals are being built all the time, but did they(the hospitals) ever keep records of births in the 50's?..

More likely that she was born in the hospital than at home, in my opinion-not sure about records, though, other than state-issued birth certificate.
 
  • #606
OT, but I just wanted to thank everyone for being so civilized and smart on this thread! Much more productive (and enjoyable)!
 
  • #607
  • #608
Just a thought, I wonder if she was born at home or in a hospital? I know new hospitals are being built all the time, but did they(the hospitals) ever keep records of births in the 50's?..

That's a good point, Saracen, esp. if we are looking at a city/country difference. I was born in the Bronx, in a hospital, but isn't a BC a birth record? I suppose the strength of that record could vary by state. I think, in the city, home births were more likely for the generation before that. However, a home birth may have been possible if we are talking western PA ... esp. depending on the location of the hospital (e.g., an hour away) and the mother's labor history (e.g., my mother's doctor picked her up in an ambulance on the night of a blizzard before things got too bad -- so she could spend the night in the hospital "just in case" -- and I was born 5 minutes after they got there).
 
  • #609
OT, but I just wanted to thank everyone for being so civilized and smart on this thread! Much more productive (and enjoyable)!

Working as a team will always be more productive..IMO
 
  • #610
I completely agree with both of you, Jmoose, Saracen
Productive, pleasant, civilized
 
  • #611
I know that LE did not solve this, or did not bother too, and I feel that there is less hope for us to do so, but someone here just might stumble across that one overlooked vital bit of information that will light this up!! onwards team, the answer is out there!! lol..
 
  • #612
One productive thing I can think of to do is to contact the Staten Island Advance and ask them to run a story. If we do this, I think it would need to be a group effort, with enough people sending emails within a short time, to get their attention. Maybe we should wait until mid-late August, and note that the anniversary of her disappearance is approaching.

If they do run a story, they will probably be able to access more information from LE, and would probably track down the brother and fiance for comment...

Just a thought, it's all I can think of to get any more info on this poor girl...


Odyssey –
-What an excellent idea. -On a local level the media can surely bring awareness and shine a light on Sylvia. Especially since there are no doubt people on Staten Island who have always lived there and remember life back then?

--This may be somewhat OT in relation to Sylvia specifically but perhaps there is a bigger story, here.

Since the media may be constrained as to where they can go with a specific story like this, maybe the New York Times with its investigative experience and vast resources would find merit in doing a broader story.

This is a period piece story, the “classified “run-aways” during a time of cultural divide and change”. From an investigative standpoint, how many families during this time were left with no support from law enforcement, LE hands may have been genuinely tied as to what they could do, or so lacking in resources, or tangled in corruption, too. What is the perspective through the eyes of law enforcement based on many cases they handled in all five boroughs of NYC? How did unknowing young women fall prey to criminals, or the underworld of Manhattan? There were some seriously fringe groups out there, as well. Given we were not micro-chipped with all our GPS tracking devices, back then , to vanish without a trace was entirely possible…

Lost in the 70’s - How many families were left with no resources at all, no ability to mount a search at the time of a loved one’s disappearance? -Left with no answers and decades later, no closure. --Heartbreaking, for sure.

How many from this time (late 60’s through the 70’s) just walked away from their families without a trace and never looked back? -More than we know? What happened to others who disappeared? Were they able to reconcile or not? What are their stories? What impact did this cultural divide have on American life and families? I am reminded of the Vietnam vets who came home to “no country”. –From a war shrouded in shame.

I would like to think Sylvia ended up in a lovely commune with naturalist bohemian types, had her baby, and is living a peaceful life on an organic farm somewhere in northern California. Did she meet someone who offered up a completely different alternative lifestyle?

Sadly, it would have to be something hugely life altering for someone to walk away from their life… And, never to return to contact the ones she left behind, and undoubtedly loved very much. What are the chances of that?
 
  • #613
  • #614
OT, but I just wanted to thank everyone for being so civilized and smart on this thread! Much more productive (and enjoyable)!

I second that emotion - what a great group this is!
 
  • #615
That's a good point, Saracen, esp. if we are looking at a city/country difference. I was born in the Bronx, in a hospital, but isn't a BC a birth record? I suppose the strength of that record could vary by state. I think, in the city, home births were more likely for the generation before that. However, a home birth may have been possible if we are talking western PA ... esp. depending on the location of the hospital (e.g., an hour away) and the mother's labor history (e.g., my mother's doctor picked her up in an ambulance on the night of a blizzard before things got too bad -- so she could spend the night in the hospital "just in case" -- and I was born 5 minutes after they got there).

I wonder if this is a state by state or US Gov. Database? I was born in D.C. And, the hospital burned down a couple of decades later. I had one of those certificates with my footprints and a seal. I got an official birth certificate (and wallet size, too) in the 80's through an agency in Washington DC, when I applied for a passport as my footprints were definitely not official enough. I wonder if states are required to send birth records to a broader US Gov't agency.
 
  • #616
  • #617
I am taking a look at another dismal possibility here and am going to add lots of links to support it. Apologies to anyone who's raised this possibility before. I am just now seeing the strength of it.

(1) I went back to Bessie's map in Post 509. I don't know how to add a "balloon" to the map, or even if I'm allowed to, but if you look at the top of the Greenbelt, to the right of the only breach in the belt, you see Willowbrook Lake. Am I correct that the park that is now there is the site of the former state hospital? That's not terribly far from the site of the alleged fight.

(2) This site provides a long bio and history of Andre Rand. In reading about him, a few things stand out:

(a) He was known to be living in the area since 1972, working as house painter and sign painter, and "living" in the abandoned buildings and tunnels of Willowbrook.

(b) In spite of claiming to be mentally disabled, he was extremely predatory, decisive, and methodical in committing his crimes. He left few clues behind. To date, many of his alleged victims have not been found. There is a long period of time -- 1969-1979 -- in which little is known or even suspected about what he was doing. But the overarching time that he was active suggests he was must have been doing something, crime-wise, during this period.

(c) Most of his alleged victims are children, and he sometimes even boasted of his predilection for pedophilia, but he made exceptions. The text of a NY Daily News article printed on the above site says "In 1979, he was accused of raping a young woman and a 15-year-old girl, but neither pressed charges."

(d) Along the same lines, a 2011 article from the Staten Island Advance claims that at a sentencing hearing 7 years earlier, he "professed his love for older and lonely women and invited the female jurors to correspond with him."

(3) Rand (born 1944) would have been about 31 YO when SL disappeared. Could he have run into her when she was in the midst of emotional devastation? The above Daily News article also says, "People in the neighborhood described him as friendly, articulate and well read ..." Would he have been an attractive "knight on a white horse" to a distraught SL who may have thought she was out of options? Could he have offered her a ride in his trendy green VW beetle? In other places, he's referred to as a "the pied piper of Staten Island," so I think his charisma is well verified.

(4) One thing that really stands out to me is how successfully Rand hid his crimes. SL may have led her family to believe she would run away if pushed by her father (my speculation), leaving behind an unsettled family legend that she's alive somewhere (more speculation by me), but the silence about her fate after 1975 runs very parallel to Rand's "invisibility" during this period. As someone (epiphany? odyssey?) mentioned earlier, and as stated in the Daily News article, "Friends of Jennifer for Missing Children ... still searches Willowbrook's 385 acres twice a year looking for the other girls." Yet we hear nothing on them finding any remains.

(5) Just FYI, here's an interesting first-hand account of what it was like to see same-age peers going missing during Rand's alleged later spree. Note this statement: "There is speculation that Andre Rand may be responsible for the disappearance of Audrey Lyn Nerenberg, an 18-year-old from Brooklyn (missing since 1977).")

Based on the MO of pedophilia, I initially dismissed Rand. I am now rethinking that. I wonder what the rest of you think?

Also, I am not finding a "Friends of Jennifer for Missing Children" website. Anyone have any idea if there's an Internet outlet for their findings?

(I almost lost this mammoth post when I had to login in the middle! Am learning to save posts to another document before clicking "Preview Post." Perhaps a message from above to "end it already!")
 
  • #618
  • #619
I am taking a look at another dismal possibility here and am going to add lots of links to support it. Apologies to anyone who's raised this possibility before. I am just now seeing the strength of it.

(1) I went back to Bessie's map in Post 509. I don't know how to add a "balloon" to the map, or even if I'm allowed to, but if you look at the top of the Greenbelt, to the right of the only breach in the belt, you see Willowbrook Lake. Am I correct that the park that is now there is the site of the former state hospital? That's not terribly far from the site of the alleged fight.

(2) This site provides a long bio and history of Andre Rand. In reading about him, a few things stand out:

(a) He was known to be living in the area since 1972, working as house painter and sign painter, and "living" in the abandoned buildings and tunnels of Willowbrook.

(b) In spite of claiming to be mentally disabled, he was extremely predatory, decisive, and methodical in committing his crimes. He left few clues behind. To date, many of his alleged victims have not been found. There is a long period of time -- 1969-1979 -- in which little is known or even suspected about what he was doing. But the overarching time that he was active suggests he was must have been doing something, crime-wise, during this period.

(c) Most of his alleged victims are children, and he sometimes even boasted of his predilection for pedophilia, but he made exceptions. The text of a NY Daily News article printed on the above site says "In 1979, he was accused of raping a young woman and a 15-year-old girl, but neither pressed charges."

(d) Along the same lines, a 2011 article from the Staten Island Advance claims that at a sentencing hearing 7 years earlier, he "professed his love for older and lonely women and invited the female jurors to correspond with him."

(3) Rand (born 1944) would have been about 31 YO when SL disappeared. Could he have run into her when she was in the midst of emotional devastation? The above Daily News article also says, "People in the neighborhood described him as friendly, articulate and well read ..." Would he have been an attractive "knight on a white horse" to a distraught SL who may have thought she was out of options? Could he have offered her a ride in his trendy green VW beetle? In other places, he's referred to as a "the pied piper of Staten Island," so I think his charisma is well verified.

(4) One thing that really stands out to me is how successfully Rand hid his crimes. SL may have led her family to believe she would run away if pushed by her father (my speculation), leaving behind an unsettled family legend that she's alive somewhere (more speculation by me), but the silence about her fate after 1975 runs very parallel to Rand's "invisibility" during this period. As someone (epiphany? odyssey?) mentioned earlier, and as stated in the Daily News article, "Friends of Jennifer for Missing Children ... still searches Willowbrook's 385 acres twice a year looking for the other girls." Yet we hear nothing on them finding any remains.

(5) Just FYI, here's an interesting first-hand account of what it was like to see same-age peers going missing during Rand's alleged later spree. Note this statement: "There is speculation that Andre Rand may be responsible for the disappearance of Audrey Lyn Nerenberg, an 18-year-old from Brooklyn (missing since 1977).")

Based on the MO of pedophilia, I initially dismissed Rand. I am now rethinking that. I wonder what the rest of you think?

Also, I am not finding a "Friends of Jennifer for Missing Children" website. Anyone have any idea if there's an Internet outlet for their findings?

(I almost lost this mammoth post when I had to login in the middle! Am learning to save posts to another document before clicking "Preview Post." Perhaps a message from above to "end it already!")


Thank you for all the information, early on in the thread I had mentioned Rand's name, (I had read a few things about him on a site called the "long island lady") wasn't sure about a connection with SL at the time but did want to explore that more. Away right now so don't really have the time to look for info. I know he drove a VW Beetle, think it was green. But yes I think this avenue would be a good one to at least consider.
 
  • #620
I totally got goosebumps over this ... and among random things that make me happy, while it's playing, my avatar in the post below seems to be swaying to it

:skip:

Also strange, and a bit of trivia: They also wrote a song called Sylvia's Father (it was never recorded though) and it talks about the father talking to the BF on the phone angry that the BF got Sylvia pregnant. Found the lyric's ironic in some verses.
 
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