NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[GoingByMyGut]

may have already been posted but it doesn't hurt to post again

http://newyorkstatemissingpersons.ning.com/photo/sylvia-alice-lwowski-staten?context=latest

Did you read the comments on this page? The Tottenville HS Class of '71 has a FB page and there is some chatter about who knew her ... I thought she would have been class of '70 but not sure. If 71, confirms she did not yet graduate from Wagner.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

From the above link

Highschool friends thought she was a nice girl

many still didn't know she was missing in 2012

Heart shaped diamond ring, very unique

Also thinking (re the part BBM) that "heart shape" says "large." $$$

 

[epiphany]

From the above link

Highschool friends thought she was a nice girl

many still didn't know she was missing in 2012

Heart shaped diamond ring, very unique

Oh, I see. That's how her HS friends recall her.

OK. What about her neighborhood GFs then,..many may have attended a different HS. Catholic High Schools, for example.

 

[Dushi]

Because there is not a lot of information available, its impossible to say if she had friends and how many

There could have been many of her friends who had opinions on what happened, grieved the fact that she wasn't there

But its 38 years later
People move, get married, have families
Life takes over

 

[epiphany]

So "dependents" could be disabled parents, widowed mother, younger siblings, children of an older sibling ... still so many possibilities in addition to earlier marriage.

True. But on WWII enlistment records, would they have qualified to be listed as "dependents" even if, let's say, a widowed mother may have in reality been financially dependent on him?

 

[Jmoose]

:facepalm:

True. But on WWII enlistment records, would they have qualified to be listed as "dependents" even if, let's say, a widowed mother may have in reality been financially dependent on him?

That was my question-are they saying that he had legal dependents that he would claim on a tax return? I really would like to see a census later than 1930, but, no dice!

 

[epiphany]

re the 1st part BBM: I think this was still an average age for the time, with marrying later a phemon of the 80s and 90s.

re the 2nd part BBM: This was still quite controversial in many families. Engaged couples were often not permitted to sleep in the same room at parents' homes.

Re sleeping together in parents' homes. Agree: Absolutely not. Just wondering about independent or semi-independent GFs available to her.

Re marriage at 22 yo, college-educated in NYC 1975, I believe on the early side of, yes, average age...so how would Sylvia have felt IF fiance wanted to call the marriage/break engagement off, and she had to remain living with her parents for longer than she may have planned in her mind?

She was prepared to go from parents home directly into a marital home. Granted her own, but she had never lived alone.

Described by mother as "Depressed." Just how depressed would she have been after the argument?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

True. But on WWII enlistment records, would they have qualified to be listed as "dependents" even if, let's say, a widowed mother may have in reality been financially dependent on him?

Good question. But this may not have been a question that had financial ramifications for the military agency. Perhaps just a description of his circumstances. Remember, men were breadwinners, and if they were too tied down, sending them overseas, for instance, could have caused problems. Not sure how they were defining the term for purposes of this form ...

 

[Odyssey]

BBM

First off, as another poster indicated, I love your thought-provoking post!

Are you asking me to be who I am in his shoes/position, or to be who I understand him to be, and place myself in his shoes/position?

If the latter, I don't clearly understand who he is, what makes him tick, so very difficult for me to say.

All I can say is human behavior is very complex, and without a deeper understanding of his background, who he was then (same for Sylvia), I can speculate, but doesn't mean that's what either of them would do.

For me, it's what would each of them have done at that time in their lives. And I don't know what their usual behaviors were.

Yes, I meant to be who you are.

I didn't want to be "righteous" by assuming that what *I* would do is the "normal" thing someone should do... I wanted to see if everyone here pretty much would have the same reaction, then THAT could be considered the 'normal' reaction a person would have...

But we've already got opposite responses, so that idea isn't going to work.

I'm just having a little trouble with the "fiance did it" theory - I didn't think the fact that he waited 4 hours was suspicious, what I thought was odd (based on my own idea of what I would have done in his shoes) I thought it was too soon, since he wouldn't have known she was missing.

My problem is that he couldn't have done anything major to her on Richmond Avenue in daylight hours. He would have had to premeditate, taking her to a more remote location, and there's no indication that he had ever been violent in the past - and they were together for quite awhile. Unless the whole movie theater/Richmond Avenue story was false...

 

[Odyssey]

Please send me - each of you - if you'd like - and if you would be kind enough - your top five questions.
She def did not runaway - and the bf was def not helpful.

The <G>

I just have one question that hasn't already been raised.

Was anyone looking for her after the first day or two?

 

[epiphany]

Yes, I meant to be who you are.

I didn't want to be "righteous" by assuming that what *I* would do is the "normal" thing someone should do... I wanted to see if everyone here pretty much would have the same reaction, then THAT could be considered the 'normal' reaction a person would have...

But we've already got opposite responses, so that idea isn't going to work.

I'm just having a little trouble with the "fiance did it" theory - I didn't think the fact that he waited 4 hours was suspicious, what I thought was odd (based on my own idea of what I would have done in his shoes) I thought it was too soon, since he wouldn't have known she was missing.

My problem is that he couldn't have done anything major to her on Richmond Avenue in daylight hours. He would have had to premeditate, taking her to a more remote location, and there's no indication that he had ever been violent in the past - and they were together for quite awhile. Unless the whole movie theater/Richmond Avenue story was false...

Anyone else have those GFs who lived in strict homes (younger age, though) who told their parents, "Yeah, going here, going there...be back later." And off they went to wherever they were really going, not where they said they'd be.

She's 22, yet may have still been doing just that.

Also, IF father strict with her, you bet he'd show up at the home...

 

[Odyssey]

That's IF she said that... This is all speculation but I kind of envisioned that she was hanging out at his house, then they decided to go to the movies... I think that partly because if he was just going to pick her up and go to a movie, why would they go all the way across town to a theater near his house, when I'm sure there were a couple theaters closer to her house...

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yes, I meant to be who you are.

I didn't want to be "righteous" by assuming that what *I* would do is the "normal" thing someone should do... I wanted to see if everyone here pretty much would have the same reaction, then THAT could be considered the 'normal' reaction a person would have...

But we've already got opposite responses, so that idea isn't going to work.

I'm just having a little trouble with the "fiance did it" theory - I didn't think the fact that he waited 4 hours was suspicious, what I thought was odd (based on my own idea of what I would have done in his shoes) I thought it was too soon, since he wouldn't have known she was missing.

My problem is that he couldn't have done anything major to her on Richmond Avenue in daylight hours. He would have had to premeditate, taking her to a more remote location, and there's no indication that he had ever been violent in the past - and they were together for quite awhile. Unless the whole movie theater/Richmond Avenue story was false...

bbm: Me too. "having a little trouble with the "fiance did it" theory" -It warrants exploration at face value. Without knowing their lives how can we draw that conclusion?

bbm: No movie date - If true, that would change everything...

I remember great dramatic arguments with paramours (over nothing sometimes)- I wouldn't hesitate to storm off and call a friend. I wouldn't hesitate to show up at his parents house if I couldn't reach him afterwards.

 

[Jmoose]

Yes, I meant to be who you are.

I didn't want to be "righteous" by assuming that what *I* would do is the "normal" thing someone should do... I wanted to see if everyone here pretty much would have the same reaction, then THAT could be considered the 'normal' reaction a person would have...

But we've already got opposite responses, so that idea isn't going to work.

I'm just having a little trouble with the "fiance did it" theory - I didn't think the fact that he waited 4 hours was suspicious, what I thought was odd (based on my own idea of what I would have done in his shoes) I thought it was too soon, since he wouldn't have known she was missing.

My problem is that he couldn't have done anything major to her on Richmond Avenue in daylight hours. He would have had to premeditate, taking her to a more remote location, and there's no indication that he had ever been violent in the past - and they were together for quite awhile. Unless the whole movie theater/Richmond Avenue story was false...

I speculated that in the time beween Sylvia supposedly leaving the car, and the time that BF showed up at Sylvia's parents' house, he may have been looking for Sylvia. I also speculated that maybe they were never at the K-Mart plaza at all

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes, I meant to be who you are.

I didn't want to be "righteous" by assuming that what *I* would do is the "normal" thing someone should do... I wanted to see if everyone here pretty much would have the same reaction, then THAT could be considered the 'normal' reaction a person would have...

But we've already got opposite responses, so that idea isn't going to work.

I'm just having a little trouble with the "fiance did it" theory - I didn't think the fact that he waited 4 hours was suspicious, what I thought was odd (based on my own idea of what I would have done in his shoes) I thought it was too soon, since he wouldn't have known she was missing.

My problem is that he couldn't have done anything major to her on Richmond Avenue in daylight hours. He would have had to premeditate, taking her to a more remote location, and there's no indication that he had ever been violent in the past - and they were together for quite awhile. Unless the whole movie theater/Richmond Avenue story was false...

Was there a popular "lovers' lane" on the island? Woods or a park where no one would be suspicious of two people who wanted to be alone?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Anyone else have those GFs who lived in strict homes (younger age, though) who told their parents, "Yeah, going here, going there...be back later." And off they went to wherever they were really going, not where they said they'd be.

She's 22, yet may have still been doing just that.

Also, IF father strict with her, you bet he'd show up at the home...

OMG, yes, that's how we did it ... LOL. You're sleeping over my house, I'm sleeping over at yours. Neither of us are where we said we'd be.

 

[rosemadderlake]

OMG, yes, that's how we did it ... LOL. You're sleeping over my house, I'm sleeping over at yours. Neither of us are where we said we'd be.

Omg, yes. I was bad. --In high school (spring of our junior year), my girlfriend and I told our respective parents we were going on a church retreat, told the church we were not going, and took a bus to Boston to spend the weekend with our boyfriends. We had a blast--much more innocent than it sounds. We toured the city, met up with friends, went to a concert, and freaked out the whole time because we might get away with it. And, we pulled it off!!

As I look back - there must have been some guardian angels looking out for us, too.

The Night Owl

 

[Odyssey]

Was there a popular "lovers' lane" on the island? Woods or a park where no one would be suspicious of two people who wanted to be alone?

the beaches are all I can think of... but then, I left Staten Island when I was 12 (though I have a lot of vivid memories) so wouldn't have been familiar with lovers lanes.

 

[Saracen]

BBM

First off, as another poster indicated, I love your thought-provoking post!

Are you asking me to be who I am in his shoes/position, or to be who I understand him to be, and place myself in his shoes/position?

If the latter, I don't clearly understand who he is, what makes him tick, so very difficult for me to say.

All I can say is human behavior is very complex, and without a deeper understanding of his background, who he was then (same for Sylvia), I can speculate, but doesn't mean that's what either of them would do.

For me, it's what would each of them have done at that time in their lives. And I don't know what their usual behaviors were.

BBM; Thats a very good point, if the same thing happened 10yrs later everyone would have reacted differently, call it life experience or whatever, maybe reactions would not be so hasty and rash..

 

[Saracen]

One word: Car. Secluded place. "Lover's Lane." Car.

Do we actually know the location where this event actually took place, parking lot ect: