NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[GoingByMyGut]

LETS JUST SAY......

Mom went to the police station alone to file a missing persons report
She gave the description etc.

No investigation had started at this time

Could the last seen @ 6PM be the last time she was seen by Mom as no one else had been spoken to at the time of the PR?

JMO

That's an interesting thought, Dushi. In other words, making the BF argument later in the evening? That would be very difficult to verify though.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

A quick question: Do you have any sources for the two Willowbrook nurses who disappeared, one of whom was found deceased -- Ethel Atwell -- and Shin Lee -- the one missing/not found)? I could find NOTHING, and I would have thought there would have been articles at least on Atwell.

I am quoting myself here bc I want to correct the part BBM. It appears from an article I found in the New York Times archives that I reversed their situations. This little tiny article -- you can imagine it tucked in the back pages of the Times -- speaks volumes to me about what was going on at the time. Four paragraphs encapsulate FIVE deaths/disappearances! I don't think AR was on the radar for these at the time, but I am not sure about that. Anyway, I thought you'd all appreciate seeing it, so I took a screen shot of it and will attach it here. The article is dated July 16, 1979; the page number is not specified.

 

[alliemay]

Wow 360 acres is quite a bit of land, quite a bit for Rand to choose from to live in.

 

[Dushi]

That's an interesting thought, Dushi. In other words, making the BF argument later in the evening? That would be very difficult to verify though.

Yes it would be, as is every other speculation about this case

 

[Odyssey]

I am quoting myself here bc I want to correct the part BBM. It appears from an article I found in the New York Times archives that I reversed their situations. This little tiny article -- you can imagine it tucked in the back pages of the Times -- speaks volumes to me about what was going on at the time. Four paragraphs encapsulate FIVE deaths/disappearances! I don't think AR was on the radar for these at the time, but I am not sure about that. Anyway, I thought you'd all appreciate seeing it, so I took a screen shot of it and will attach it here. The article is dated July 16, 1979; the page number is not specified.

bbm

No, Rand wasn't on the radar until Jennifer Schweiger's disappearance, IIRC - and that was in 1987, that's when they went back and started linking him to all the other ones. That's why I think they may have overlooked the fact that Rand may have been incarcerated when Tiahease went missing.

What I found odd was that they linked virtually every missing female on Staten Island to him, except Sylvia (and Brenda Crowley, who was most likely a runaway - still not found) so I wondered why not Sylvia? It made me wonder if they had another theory on what happened to Sylvia.

 

[Jmoose]

bbm

No, Rand wasn't on the radar until Jennifer Schweiger's disappearance, IIRC - and that was in 1987, that's when they went back and started linking him to all the other ones. That's why I think they may have overlooked the fact that Rand may have been incarcerated when Tiahease went missing.

What I found odd was that they linked virtually every missing female on Staten Island to him, except Sylvia (and Brenda Crowley, who was most likely a runaway - still not found) so I wondered why not Sylvia? It made me wonder if they had another theory on what happened to Sylvia.

All these years later, it is difficult to tell whether the police investigated or not-there isn't much evidence that they did. I ran it past my husband, an objective person who isn't invested emotionally in this (yet), and he said he thought it would be difficult to imagine that they didn't investigate it at all. I think that Odyssey's observation hat they may have had another theory is a good one. If anything, if they wanted to be lazy, they could certainly have attributed her disappearance to him, yet they did not?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I would guess the police stopped by his home to talk to him and quietly check things out? -Verify the argument and any other details from the evening? ‘Has she been in contact? Let us know if you hear from her’. - - Maybe they questioned the nearby stores, theater, at K-Mart Plaza for recollections that evening? Follow up with the Lwowski family? She is a missing person.

-The police report has to be more than one page. What are the reasons a detective “advises will not handle”? What does that mean? Will not pass along to another department, or classification? Cannot pursue because she is of legal age and free will?

 

[Saracen]

I would guess the police stopped by his home to talk to him and quietly check things out? -Verify the argument and any other details from the evening? ‘Has she been in contact? Let us know if you hear from her’. - - Maybe they questioned the nearby stores, theater, at K-Mart Plaza for recollections that evening? Follow up with the Lwowski family? She is a missing person.

-The police report has to be more than one page. What are the reasons a detective “advises will not handle”? What does that mean? Will not pass along to another department, or classification? Cannot pursue because she is of legal age and free will?

This is the thing that I do not understand, someone is reported missing,and the police decide if they are going to investigate or not?? I cannot get my head around that, did they at that time decide which cases they wanted to work on and which ones they didn't?..

 

[Dushi]

I would guess the police stopped by his home to talk to him and quietly check things out? -Verify the argument and any other details from the evening? ‘Has she been in contact? Let us know if you hear from her’. - - Maybe they questioned the nearby stores, theater, at K-Mart Plaza for recollections that evening? Follow up with the Lwowski family? She is a missing person. -The police report has to be more than one page. What are the reasons a detective “advises will not handle”? What does that mean? Will not pass along to another department, or classification? Cannot pursue because she is of legal age and free will?

I guess what i am asking is, is what we are seeing the initial police report before the investigation started, the facts given by her mother?


So if her Mom was alone,she could ony tell police what she knew, the other info would come later
Interviews with friends/family
As they investigated there would be more facts to add to the PR?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I guess what i am asking is, is what we are seeing the initial police report before the investigation started, the facts given by her mother?


So if her Mom was alone,she could ony tell police what she knew, the other info would come later
Interviews with friends/family
As they investigated there would be more facts to add to the PR?

--Perhaps her Mom gave more details, too. And, the fiance, interviewed at the very least because he was named in the report. I would think they patrolled the "last seen" area, initially... There is more in the PR file... imo

Maybe the "will not handle" is about the Mom, when she filed the report she must have been really upset, and really upset with the fiance too (speculating). Could it refer to "will not handle" a fight between two adults without presenting endangerment? I don't know what the LE wording is... They can pursue a missing person but not get in the middle of an engaged couple's fight? Or, Sylvia's decision to "get out of Dodge" of her own free will.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Hello, all. Gotta back-read, but will cactch up soon. Skeet, I blame you: I have had "Slylvia's Mother" in my head all day, and you do. not. want. to hear me sing!

 

[Odyssey]

I'm again trying to put myself in their shoes as far as what they might have been thinking at the time.

A long time ago, I got upset and walked out of the house. It wasn't anything major, just that my husband had the day off and had been home all day, I had a long, bad day at work, and as soon as I walked in the door, he said "What's for dinner?" and I just snapped. I think I came back around 3am, I just needed to cool off.

If I had looked at the paper the next morning and seen my face as a missing person, I would have been pretty pissed off... (at that time I hadn't ever looked at missing person cases so I wouldn't have understood why anyone would report me missing). That could be part of why the publicity desired was answered with a no. She might not have wanted Sylvia to come back and be furious with her, or having to explain to everyone who had seen it in the paper.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Odyssey –
-What an excellent idea. -On a local level the media can surely bring awareness and shine a light on Sylvia. Especially since there are no doubt people on Staten Island who have always lived there and remember life back then?

--This may be somewhat OT in relation to Sylvia specifically but perhaps there is a bigger story, here.

Since the media may be constrained as to where they can go with a specific story like this, maybe the New York Times with its investigative experience and vast resources would find merit in doing a broader story.

This is a period piece story, the “classified “run-aways” during a time of cultural divide and change”. From an investigative standpoint, how many families during this time were left with no support from law enforcement, LE hands may have been genuinely tied as to what they could do, or so lacking in resources, or tangled in corruption, too. What is the perspective through the eyes of law enforcement based on many cases they handled in all five boroughs of NYC? How did unknowing young women fall prey to criminals, or the underworld of Manhattan? There were some seriously fringe groups out there, as well. Given we were not micro-chipped with all our GPS tracking devices, back then , to vanish without a trace was entirely possible…

Lost in the 70’s - How many families were left with no resources at all, no ability to mount a search at the time of a loved one’s disappearance? -Left with no answers and decades later, no closure. --Heartbreaking, for sure.

How many from this time (late 60’s through the 70’s) just walked away from their families without a trace and never looked back? -More than we know? What happened to others who disappeared? Were they able to reconcile or not? What are their stories? What impact did this cultural divide have on American life and families? I am reminded of the Vietnam vets who came home to “no country”. –From a war shrouded in shame.

I would like to think Sylvia ended up in a lovely commune with naturalist bohemian types, had her baby, and is living a peaceful life on an organic farm somewhere in northern California. Did she meet someone who offered up a completely different alternative lifestyle?

Sadly, it would have to be something hugely life altering for someone to walk away from their life… And, never to return to contact the ones she left behind, and undoubtedly loved very much. What are the chances of that?

BBM1 (the whole paragraph really): You do a really good job of conjuring up the time and issues. This was a really big theme of TV shows in the 70s and 80s. Do you remember?

BBM2: Love this as a title

Along the lines you and Odyssey are discussing, I wonder, couldn't we also post something in the comments on the NamUs page, where there's already some chatter about people knowing Sylvia from Tottenville High School -- like a classified ad? Maybe something like this:

"Do you remember Sylvia Lwowski (Tottenville High School class of 1971)? We are a group of caring, amateur sleuths, attempting to put the pieces of Sylvia's story together in order to understand how and why she disappeared in Sept. 1975, and we need your help. What do you remember about who Sylvia was as a person? What was going on in her life when she vanished? Visit our web-based forum (link) and read the ongoing discussion about Sylvia's disappearance. If you decide you'd like to contribute, just register (involves picking a screen name and password) and chime in (participation is free and anonymous)! (Once you register, you also have the option of privately messaging any one of the posters.) Please pass this along to anyone you know who knew Sylvia. Thanks."

Just putting it out there as a starting point ....

 

[Odyssey]

There are also Staten Island forums here:

www.silive.com/forums/

There is a Tottenville forum, a Crime and Punishment forum, and a NYPD forum that might all be good places to post something.

GBMG or Rose, I think one of you should post something, you both are great with words!

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Originally Posted by Jmoose
As I said yesterday, as far as I am concerned, it's all still on the table for me, and Rand was out there at the time, doing his thing. I suppose it's certainly as possible as Sylvia running into R. Biegenwald. What I posted on the Lauren Spierer thread, though, was that after all of the stuff that had happened the day she disappeared, it would be extraordinarily bad luck to then run into a thrill killer-and think the same way about Sylvia. It is absolutely possible, though. There were at least 2 killers on Staten Island at the time (although Biegenwald did most of his work in NJ)

This is where I am

Is there a time when it would not be extraordinary bad luck to run into a serial killer? I know that's not your point -- I think you're saying that it would be the icing on the cake of so many bad things converging at one time -- but I think this kind of thing usually happens on bad days ... when a young woman is vulnerable, and that vulnerability is apparent. I'm not trying to be argumentative, it's just that I can see that being part of the "formula," if you will. That it could happen because those things converged, because someone was alone, because they were distraught. JMO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Bringing some facts forward"

Goes out with BF/F early evening on sept 6/75
Wearing white button up sweather, light green skirt, browm shoes and bag, engagement ring (PR)
Had an argument with BF/F and left the car (PR)
Last seen by BF/F around 6pm, Sept 6/75, Kmart Plaza area (PR)
Left her glasses in the car (PR)
Born in Germany (PR) Town or country?
Official police report , sept 7/75 (PR)
PR stated no publicity
Det Lennon noted"will not handle" (PR)
At the time, she was not employed and not attending school (PR)
Her mood was depressed (PR)
She had not gone missing before (PR)

Engagement announcement says a Biology major@ Wagner ( undated)
Member of Tau Beta Sigma National band Society

BBM: I completely missed this on the PR. Thanks so much for presenting this this way and pointing out the verification.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Odyssey
An additional thought would be to put this idea out there to the FB page—I know there was one with her friend’s comments. Maybe they will think it is a good idea, too? -Could be a joint effort or WS can assist?

We certainly have assembled much of the preliminary information right here on WS for the SI Advance. Include the preliminary info, with a letter asking them to consider a story highlighting Sylvia’s disappearance in 1975, and that people are still searching for her after all these years….

This would be compelling coming from classmates and friends.

BBM: Not sure which FB page you mean? But I think this is a great idea for any of several, including that "Staten Island Lady" page. This is what I was getting at with the "classified ad" thing. We could post something like this anywhere there are comments (it's not a violation of TOS is it)?

 

[alliemay]

BBM: Not sure which FB page you mean? But I think this is a great idea for any of several, including that "Staten Island Lady" page. This is what I was getting at with the "classified ad" thing. We could post something like this anywhere there are comments (it's not a violation of TOS is it)?

...thanks I think I said she was the "long island lady" in one of my posts lol. She does have some interesting info on her page.

 

[Dushi]

When I was looking around at the above FB page, I went into a couple of others.. I think from that site

Its been posted, about this site and what we are doing

They gave the name of this site etc

 

[Dushi]

BBM: I completely missed this on the PR. Thanks so much for presenting this this way and pointing out the verification.

There is a mistake in that and i can't correct it..

The PR states last seen at 6PM, Kmart Plaza Area but it DOES NOT say the BF saw her last