NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[GoingByMyGut]

I am going to hold off on asking any more specific questions until M is verified, but based on the consensus of her we have so far (not believed to be depressed), do you guys think suicide can be eliminated as a reasonable theory?

The only reason I haven't posted an opinion on this, Odyssey, is I'm not sure yet. It doesn't sound like an option? But sometimes family and friends are taken by surprise by suicide. I still have all options on the table.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

You can remain logged in (and won't get booted off) even if u are inactive by clicking/checking on the Remember Me? box. It's to the right of the log in info (UN and PW).

This should also prevent the loss of post as one is composing.

Woohoo! Yay, epiphany! :great:
I totally thought that was to "remember" your user name when you signed back in. But I tried it last night and it worked like a charm. That's news I can use.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I am going to hold off on asking any more specific questions until M is verified, but based on the consensus of her we have so far (not believed to be depressed), do you guys think suicide can be eliminated as a reasonable theory?

Odyssey brings up a good question.

On this theory, I want to say to the new members (our VI especially) that this is something that is considered objectively - as any other theory would be. And, it is always kind of shocking when it is mentioned.

That said, my own personal feeling is no, Sylvia did not plan to take her own life, and commit suicide. And the statement of "depressed" on the police report is not a psychological evaluation.

What I am thinking about is Sylvia's state of mind that night. Did the pool party, sense of embarrassment, and not talking to her father happen just days before she disappeared? --And then, a fight with the BF/F and then her disappearance. Because, in looking at the events at face value that preceded her disappearance, seems to me there was a “flight response” in Sylvia.

What else was going on in her life at the time? It was a transition time, summer after graduating college, thinking about what is next in life? --The events leading up to her disappearance are really important.

IMO (in my opinion)

 

[Jmoose]

Odyssey brings up a good question.

On this theory, I want to say to the new members (our VI especially) that this is something that is considered objectively - as any other theory would be. And, it is always kind of shocking when it is mentioned.

That said, my own personal feeling is no, Sylvia did not plan to take her own life, and commit suicide. And the statement of "depressed" on the police report is not a psychological evaluation.

What I am thinking about is Sylvia's state of mind that night. Did the pool party, sense of embarrassment, and not talking to her father happen just days before she disappeared? --And then, a fight with the BF/F and then her disappearance. Because, in looking at the events at face value that preceded her disappearance, seems to me there was a “flight response” in Sylvia.

What else was going on in her life at the time? It was a transition time, summer after graduating college, thinking about what is next in life? --The events leading up to her disappearance are really important.

IMO (in my opinion)

Very sensitively expressed...yes, DeerHunter, we examine all possibilities, at the risk of upsetting loved ones, unfortunately. As I have said before, the possibility of self-harm is lower on my radar than some others.

 

[Dushi]

My feelings also, JMoose, Rose
Way down on my list

 

[Saracen]

am I wrong is GE not the short form for Germany

Maybe GER, but for a car they have a white D for when they are in my country..

 

[Saracen]

I am going to hold off on asking any more specific questions until M is verified, but based on the consensus of her we have so far (not believed to be depressed), do you guys think suicide can be eliminated as a reasonable theory?

Put yourself in her position, its not just a case of committing suicide but you would have to do it in a way whereby your body would not be found for close on 40yrs???, how would you do that? jump down a mine shaft, or a well not knowing if the fall will kill you, for me suicide is not an option. JMO..

 

[epiphany]

Maybe GER, but for a car they have a white D for when they are in my country..

Yes, D or De, is the abbreviation for Germany: Deutschland (first two letters in the German word for the nation).

 

[epiphany]

MMQC MMQC is offline Registered User

Who had a tattoo on their arm? Eva Lwowski had no tattoo at all on her!

I am wondering if there is any possibility that Sylvia had begun making (what now in hindsight may have been) odd statements to her friends and/or family members?

She was of the age when symptoms of mental illness most commonly begin to surface.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I am wondering if there is any possibility that Sylvia had begun making (what now in hindsight may have been) odd statements to her friends and/or family members?

She was of the age when symptoms of mental illness most commonly begin to surface.

Additional thoughts are: Did Sylvia seek counseling at School? Did anyone interview her advisors at Wagner after her disappearance?

Did her Mom talk to them when she went up to Wagner looking for Sylvia?

 

[epiphany]

Depressed no. Angry and frustrated and unsure of future yes. As we all were back then. Trying to figure out who you were and where you were heading was all consuming.

Just using your post as a jumping point, MMQC.

IF SL was not depressed, just how angry and frustrated was she?

How did she demonstrate such anger...she appears to have chosen a fairly traditional path: living at home, engagement announcement in paper, ring, wedding in future...? She appears to have been abiding by a set of rules or norms (IOW, where was the anger and frustration...How was it expressed?).

Was she involved in any activities or causes that expressed the anger and frustration of the times?

Or had she been churning inside, and recently become more vocal about her life choices?

 

[epiphany]

The only thread and a thin one at that was the embarrassment from the graduation/pool party at her home. Otherwise no indication of leaving. We would both have our differences with family. We would then stay at the other ones home if that were the case until things calmed down.

Not directed at you MMQC...just jumping off post.

What friction was there at home? IF true, why would Sylvia need a calming down or cooling off period? Had she become more volatile prior to her disappearance?

After all, Sylvia was 22 yo and had just graduated from college.

 

[Jmoose]

Maybe GER, but for a car they have a white D for when they are in my country..

OT-why don't we always call a foreign country what its countrymen do? Why do we call it Germany, and not Deutschland?

 

[epiphany]

I'm not ready to let any option go at this point. Certainly, not "depressed" on the PR (Police Report).

IF mother had been concerned with publicity alone due to harming SL's future job prospects, etc., as well as was supposedly mistrustful of LE, why did she call the police prior to her being missing a full 24 hours? Had she observed recent changes in Sylvia's behavior that led her to call so quickly, so early?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I'm not ready to let any option go at this point. Certainly, not "depressed" on the PR (Police Report).

IF mother had been concerned with publicity alone due to harming SL's future job prospects, etc., as well as was supposedly mistrustful of LE, why did she call the police prior to her being missing a full 24 hours? Had she observed recent changes in Sylvia's behavior that led her to call so quickly, so early?

I think they could be two separate things - In calling the police early - her mom knew they had a fight and Sylvia was living at home - and did not come home, and could not be located. Perhaps she had been in an accident and that would have been reported?

Then, in the actual filing the missing person report other considerations entered the picture.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Put yourself in her position, its not just a case of committing suicide but you would have to do it in a way whereby your body would not be found for close on 40yrs???, how would you do that? jump down a mine shaft, or a well not knowing if the fall will kill you, for me suicide is not an option. JMO..

I am wondering if there is any possibility that Sylvia had begun making (what now in hindsight may have been) odd statements to her friends and/or family members?

She was of the age when symptoms of mental illness most commonly begin to surface.

Additional thoughts are: Did Sylvia seek counseling at School? Did anyone interview her advisors at Wagner after her disappearance?

Did her Mom talk to them when she went up to Wagner looking for Sylvia?

These are all really thought-provoking posts. Similar questions have been churning in my mind. Mental illness, emotional problems, even marital discord, carried much more stigma in the 70s than they do now. Also, it occurs to me that many of SL's caretakers -- mom and dad -- perhaps even some teachers, mentors, and doctors -- may no longer be available to question.

As it seems her brother was younger than SL when she disappeared, these questions might not have occurred to him at the time, but the information might be useful to those investigating now. Sometimes physicians leave records in the care of the doctors they leave or sell their practice to. I wonder if any family members have ever tried to obtain them? Even the Wagner health center may have archives of patients treated there (though some schools probably disposed of them expressly so they wouldn't hurt students' reputations later on). Just a thought ...

 

[epiphany]

I think they could be two separate things - In calling the police early - her mom knew they had a fight and Sylvia was living at home - and did not come home, and could not be located. Perhaps she had been in an accident and that would have been reported?

Then, in the actual filing the missing person report other considerations entered the picture.

For me, it doesn't jive with same Mother being fearful of the police. It's very early, 22 yo, a Saturday night, etc.

 

[rosemadderlake]

For me, it doesn't jive with same Mother being fearful of the police. It's very early, 22 yo, a Saturday night, etc.

When did she call the police? Is there a time?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I think they could be two separate things - In calling the police early - her mom knew they had a fight and Sylvia was living at home - and did not come home, and could not be located. Perhaps she had been in an accident and that would have been reported?

Then, in the actual filing the missing person report other considerations entered the picture.

For me, it doesn't jive with same Mother being fearful of the police. It's very early, 22 yo, a Saturday night, etc.

Yes, it is interesting how quickly she called police. I wonder what set her off? What made her think this was different than just a BF/GF spat? Why would she draw the conclusion that she'd gone missing in the space of just a few hours? Something must have felt "just not right" to her, or previous events must have added up to something for her. JMO

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Put yourself in her position, its not just a case of committing suicide but you would have to do it in a way whereby your body would not be found for close on 40yrs???, how would you do that? jump down a mine shaft, or a well not knowing if the fall will kill you, for me suicide is not an option. JMO..

This is an excellent point, Saracen. The only thing I can think to add is what I posted earlier in the thread about the seaports, and as a second consideration, what if she ran away first ... she could be a jane doe somewhere else in the country. I personally have searched the NamUs Unidentified Persons Database for my grandfather, based on similar speculation. JMO.