NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[rosemadderlake]

Yes, very scary predicament during pre-cellphone life, right Rose?

I was thinking the same thing. You had to think about your safety decisions completely differently back then. --Especially for women.

Even if you were injured somewhere, you had to find a phone booth. Or, hope for a Good Samaritan to rescue you.

-Very different for kids now being able to check in from anywhere at any time...

 

[rosemadderlake]

I had the same question about the BF/F and why he went to people's houses so soon.

Was there any known history of violence on the part of BF/F?

bbm: Didn't he pick her up for a movie date and was supposed to drop her off that night? Or am I missing something?

I am also curious about the opinions of those close to Sylvia about her happiness or unhappiness with the BF/F. Did he ever mistreat her?

 

[epiphany]

ASWDeerHunter
Sylvia was extremely predicable in as she was so straight lace you could set you clock by her. She lived with her parents and when she did go out, she said were she was going and when she'll back back on the money.

So - based on DeerHunter's statements about- Sylvia living at home and letting her parents know when she was going out and when she'll back back - Her Mom called the police after searching for Sylvia herself that evening.

And was told she had to wait 24 hours to file missing person report, and she filed 24 hours later.

I would have done the exactly same thing.

BBM (Rose's Post)

Additionally, Mother hopped in car and drove around by herself searching for her daughter, and a Private Investigator (PI) was hired.

Then why stop there? Mother doesn't sound like the type to let LE or negative publicity about SL stop her.

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM

Additionally, Mother hopped in car and drove around herself searching for her daughter, and a Private Investigator (PI) was hired.

Why stop there? Mother doesn't sound like the type to let LE or negative publicity about SL stop her.

--Yes, because I think families were up against a brick wall with how LE (protocol) handled missing adults of consenting age and free will.

--Must have been a real feeling of powerlessness. I would have done exactly the same thing - mount my own search and hire a PI.

DeerHunter - can you tell us when the (PI) Private Investigator was hired?

 

[Odyssey]

bbm: Didn't he pick her up for a movie date and was supposed to drop her off that night? Or am I missing something?

I am also curious about the opinions of those close to Sylvia about her happiness or unhappiness with the BF/F. Did he ever mistreat her?

Yes, but after she stormed out of the car, why assume she was missing and go to people's houses to let them know so soon...

Similar question as Why did mother go to police so soon...

 

[epiphany]

LE's position aside, who (More than one person?) or what may have led such a Mother to believe that her daughter may have left on her own accord?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I had the same question about the BF/F and why he went to people's houses so soon.

Was there any known history of violence on the part of BF/F?

Re BBM: If there was, wouldn't he avoid the residence? I mean, why put yourself in harm's way? I was thinking he was hoping she'd be home by then ... but who knows -- I go back and forth on this.

:fence:

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yes, but after she stormed out of the car, why assume she was missing and go to people's houses to let them know so soon...

Similar question as Why did mother go to police so soon...

Ah, I see, I am not sure the BF/F thought she was missing necessarily but that they had a fight and he was angry and thought maybe she would go to girlfriends house? Try there first? Then to parents...

Because he was supposed to bring her home. And it was 10-10:30? Is that early? Are we talking about the difference of say 10pm to midnight?

I think the Mom was having a reaction to the fact that she was told of a fight and that sent up the radar and she started worrying right away.

It wasn't like - Oh we had a fight - Sylvia went to see so and so. It was we had a fight and she took off from the car in traffic...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

--Yes, because I think families were up against a brick wall with how LE (protocol) handled missing adults of consenting age and free will.

--Must have been a real feeling of powerlessness. I would have done exactly the same thing - mount my own search and hire a PI.

DeerHunter - can you tell us when the (PI) Private Investigator was hired?

Rose, in an earlier post, quoted by me on the same page as your post, ASWDH says "A week or two later the family hired a privet investigator ..." [as in, a week or two after filing the PR, as I read it]

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I was thinking the same thing. You had to think about your safety decisions completely differently back then. --Especially for women.

Even if you were injured somewhere, you had to find a phone booth. Or, hope for a Good Samaritan to rescue you.

-Very different for kids now being able to check in from anywhere at any time...

Yes, I was actually thinking this is why she got in the car and went looking for her. (1) I'd have been horrified that her date left her alone, (2) that it was now dark and she was still not home, and (3) she was out there somewhere upset and all alone. Re the police though, I wonder if there was another reason she may have suspected foul play ... sure, the obvious choice is suspicion re the BF, but would she look at the MALL if she thought her daughter had been the victim of violence? I don't have an answer to my own Q, just casting the net.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yes, but after she stormed out of the car, why assume she was missing and go to people's houses to let them know so soon...

Similar question as Why did mother go to police so soon...

Odyssey - This raises another question - how does one define "so soon"? What is too soon? --In this particular situation? --Or any situation?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Ah, I see, I am not sure the BF/F thought she was missing necessarily but that they had a fight and he was angry and thought maybe she would go to girlfriends house? Try there first? Then to parents...

Because he was supposed to bring her home. And it was 10-10:30? Is that early? Are we talking about the difference of say 10pm to midnight?

I think the Mom was having a reaction to the fact that she was told of a fight and that sent up the radar and she started worrying right away.

It wasn't like - Oh we had a fight - Sylvia went to see so and so. It was we had a fight and she took off from the car in traffic...

BBM1: It would be nice to have this verified.

BBM2: Right. Are these conflicting stories? Didn't GF say she also talked to mother? How does that fit it?

Which story was mom reacting to? What was she thinking?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Odyssey - This raises another question - how does one define "so soon"? What is too soon? --In this particular situation? --Or any situation?

I know you didn't ask me, Rose, but I'm thinking a few hours is soon for a 22 YO, even back then, especially since we were more used to being unable to reach people quickly.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yes, I was actually thinking this is why she got in the car and went looking for her. (1) I'd have been horrified that her date left her alone, (2) that it was now dark and she was still not home, and (3) she was out there somewhere upset and all alone. Re the police though, I wonder if there was another reason she may have suspected foul play ... sure, the obvious choice is suspicion re the BF, but would she look at the MALL if she thought her daughter had been the victim of violence? I don't have an answer to my own Q, just casting the net.

Bbm: I think this is especially true of our parents generation. --Ladies were supposed to be escorted and protected.

 

[epiphany]

As far as the the unique heart shaped diamond engagement ring is concerned, a friend familiar with this case, gave a ride to a friend of "the BF" and he stated that he spoke with the BF and he said the he got the ring back. I can only think of a few ways in which this could of happened. Perhaps, someone else on this forum can shine more like on this particular incident?

BBM

When did this occur?

Was the "friend of the BF," also a friend of Sylvia's?

And finally, did the friend who gave the ride go to the police with this information?

If you know...and if willing to share that info.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I know you didn't ask me, Rose, but I'm thinking a few hours is soon for a 22 YO, even back then, especially since we were more used to being unable to reach people quickly.

If there were no "fight or running from the car in traffic", I thoroughly agree.

Perhaps the BF/F was really upset, angry before, and now concerned? (just speculating) What is the Mom to think? Or, perhaps there's something else in addition that would incite a reaction fear and panic, immediately?

 

[epiphany]

I had the same question about the BF/F and why he went to people's houses so soon.

Was there any known history of violence on the part of BF/F?

Also, the BF/F supposedly went to SL's GF's home at 10 PM first (Unconfirmed Rumor at this time) even with GF's parents at home.

Was Sylvia in the habit of contacting or going to a GF's first if/when things went wrong?

I would think so...she's 22 yo.

 

[Odyssey]

Yes, I was actually thinking this is why she got in the car and went looking for her. (1) I'd have been horrified that her date left her alone, (2) that it was now dark and she was still not home, and (3) she was out there somewhere upset and all alone. Re the police though, I wonder if there was another reason she may have suspected foul play ... sure, the obvious choice is suspicion re the BF, but would she look at the MALL if she thought her daughter had been the victim of violence? I don't have an answer to my own Q, just casting the net.

I still feel (and this is my own gut feeling) that he somehow must have known she was missing - when she left the car, it wasn't dark and I'm not sure how he would have known that she hadn't simply gone home.

I should add something about NYC in general, which includes how I remember Staten Island. A lot of people, especially women, didn't drive. They walked or relied on public transportation. If you got on a bus, you would see business men in suits and ties, and mothers with their children juggling grocery bags, teenagers, and even kids. My friend and I took the bus a few times without parents while I was still there, and I left when I was 12. (Not sure exactly how old I was). I don't think it would have been considered scary for a 23 year old woman to be alone on Richmond Avenue.

The idea that she may have been depressed was the one thing that made the acts of concern seem logical, but without that, I'm just a little conflicted on it...

 

[epiphany]

If there were no "fight or running from the car in traffic", I thoroughly agree.

Perhaps the BF/F was really upset, angry before, and now concerned? (just speculating) What is the Mom to think? Or, perhaps there's something else in addition that would incite a reaction fear and panic, immediately?

BBM

Was she darting around and in between cars in traffic?

 

[Odyssey]

If there were no "fight or running from the car in traffic", I thoroughly agree.

Perhaps the BF/F was really upset, angry before, and now concerned? (just speculating) What is the Mom to think? Or, perhaps there's something else in addition that would incite a reaction fear and panic, immediately?

BBM

That was what I initially thought... I now think it's very possible that he was still angry at that time.

I'll elaborate more once M is verified.