NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1

[MMQC]

MMQC

bbm 1: -Can you tell us any details about the call from the cold case detective in 2010?

bbm 2: You mention following up with the BF/F -from your description, he obviously sounds very upset and angry and rude. Interesting he brings up his mother - that tells me that perhaps she really liked Sylvia and was having a breakdown over the circumstances of her disappearance. --When was your last contact with the BF/F?

Do you think the ring was very expensive? To some, all diamonds are expensive. When I think expensive, it would be more than 1 carat in size...

IMO - there's definitely more than one page in the police file.

Here goes on this thread.....
Yes, I do believe it was expensive for the time. 1ctwt, heart shaped diamond. I remember the quote of a price when they were looking. $5,000. In 1974-75 very pricy. The more cutting of the stone the bigger the price tag.

MOO -BF/F's Mother knew something other than what we knew. Again MOO.

I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75. Told him Fifi died (SL's pet poodle) and he said (insert my real name) who. I reminded BF/F who I was and he cursed me and said don't ever call here again. I then cursed him and got a lashing out from my mother as we only had one phone and it was in the kitchen. Did not raise you to talk like that.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

About break up? It's only speculated that this happened. I can't say for sure if there was a break up.
And yes, I have speculated foul play by an unknown source. I also speculated sex traffic. She was a very attractive 22 YO with a really great shape. A real head turner. That is totally possible given that the mall would have closed at 9:30-ish and people were leaving the mall. Both shoppers and workers. Within about a 45 minute time range after mall closed it became a ghost town though. Only the activity around mall then would be the restaurants with direct to parking lot access. Giving aid to a defenceless woman crying (MOO) could be totally possible.

BUT

The way I was treated verbally over the phone by the BF/F leads me to that dark place. You love someone you don't abandon them alone in an isolated place. EVEN if you have a fight. Get back in the car and at least bring home or to friends house. MOO!

BBM1: Yes, I was only speculating about a possible surprise break-up because of the ring and because it would explain a state of mind that might cause SL to act drastically.

BBM2: I have a hard time understanding this too. It came up earlier in the thread -- I think Odyssey polled us on this? If they had a fight, I could perhaps see the anger on Sat., but once the seriousness of the disappearance sunk in, I would expect a different emotional response. (That is, unless he had a reason to believe she fled ...)

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Here goes on this thread.....
Yes, I do believe it was expensive for the time. 1ctwt, heart shaped diamond. I remember the quote of a price when they were looking. $5,000. In 1974-75 very pricy. The more cutting of the stone the bigger the price tag.

MOO -BF/F's Mother knew something other than what we knew. Again MOO.

I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75. Told him Fifi died (SL's pet poodle) and he said (insert my real name) who. I reminded BF/F who I was and he cursed me and said don't ever call here again. I then cursed him and got a lashing out from my mother as we only had one phone and it was in the kitchen. Did not raise you to talk like that.

BBM: Yes, the violence you related, and the comment about the BF/F's mother being upset by the breakup/lost ring/SL missing raised red flags for me too. Mothers know their sons, IMO.

 

[epiphany]

I don't think so. Back then a diary or journal would have been a way for parents to find out things you did not want them to know about. It would have had to be on ones person at all times. Not too practical.

BBM

Now that Sylvia has never been found, what sort of things did Sylvia keep private from or hide from her parents, but share with you?

 

[epiphany]

Farrels was accessable to the mall. They had a direct entrance to the parking lot and one through the mall. It was located on the lower level on the Richmond Ave side toward Sears.

Was that parking lot often used as a pickup point for Sylvia (to give her a ride/lift) by you, her BF/F or her other friends?

 

[MMQC]

BBM: Do you mean that she said the BF/F struck his own mother?

That is what I was told.

 

[Odyssey]

I had never seen any signs of violence in the relationship. However she did tell me of a fight she wittnessed between BF/F and BF/F's mother in which it got physical. At that time I advised breaking off engagement If I were in her shoes.

As for throwing glasses against dashboard. I doubt it as she could not read with out them. No cheater glasses back then they were prescription. They could have possibly been knocked from her face. MOO (my opinion only)

BTW, I never knew about the glasses until reading it on WS.

bbm

That tells me that BF/F most likely did speak to EL that night, since the bit about the glasses thrown against the dash is in the police report IIRC...

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm

That tells me that BF/F most likely did speak to EL that night, since the bit about the glasses thrown against the dash is in the police report IIRC...

That is a really awesome point, Odyssey -- regardless of whether it's in the PR -- bc how else would the detail have materialized?

 

[Jmoose]

BUT

The way I was treated verbally over the phone by the BF/F leads me to that dark place. You love someone you don't abandon them alone in an isolated place. EVEN if you have a fight. Get back in the car and at least bring home or to friends house. MOO!

I agree-you wouldn't leave someone you love some place like that-if anything, if she wouldn't get back in the car, he should/would have parked the car and watched until she got safely on the bus, if that is what she insisted on doing. The eyeglass thing is bugging me, though. Why, if he hurt her, would he have said anything at all about the glasses? Why wouldn't he just get rid of them? MMQC-by any chance, do you know what BF/F does for a living?

 

[Dushi]

I agree-you wouldn't leave someone you love some place like that-if anything, if she wouldn't get back in the car, he should/would have parked the car and watched until she got safely on the bus, if that is what she insisted on doing. The eyeglass thing is bugging me, though. Why, if he hurt her, would he have said anything at all about the glasses? Why wouldn't he just get rid of them? MMQC-by any chance, do you know what BF/F does for a living?

I do understand what you are saying

I seriously don't know

Two things come to mind... IMO.. it makes a pretty good alibi, left her alive and well, now go find her

OR

He really did leave her alive and well, and go find her...

We know they left each other on bad terms according to him


And , the other thing is did he? Leave her alone? IMO, don't know

Yup, thats three things...

 

[Jmoose]

I do understand what you are saying

I seriously don't know

Two things come to mind... IMO.. it makes a pretty good alibi, left her alive and well, now go find her

OR

He really did leave her alive and well, and go find her...

We know they left each other on bad terms according to him


And , the other thing is did he? Leave her alone? IMO, don't know

Yup, thats three things...

I know-but she needed the glasses to see. I can't imagine her getting angry and tossing her glasses, of all things, but if they fell or if he knocked them off her face, and she jumped out of the car without them because she was afraid of him, he might say to her parents that she threw them before she left the car. I really don't understand his treatment of MMQC, either. In my opinion, BF/F knows much more than he has said, even if it is only that he did something that caused her to leave the car abruptly without the glasses that she needed so she could see. Either he was able to avoid being questioned by the police, or this ridiculous tale about the glasses somehow didn't resonate with them.

 

[Saracen]

I know-but she needed the glasses to see. I can't imagine her getting angry and tossing her glasses, of all things, but if they fell or if he knocked them off her face, and she jumped out of the car without them because she was afraid of him, he might say to her parents that she threw them before she left the car. I really don't understand his treatment of MMQC, either. In my opinion, BF/F knows much more than he has said, even if it is only that he did something that caused her to leave the car abruptly without the glasses that she needed so she could see. Either he was able to avoid being questioned by the police, or this ridiculous tale about the glasses somehow didn't resonate with them.

Please excuse my ignorance, but were these glasses perscripton glasses or just sun glasses..

 

[Jmoose]

Please excuse my ignorance, but were these glasses perscripton glasses or just sun glasses..

MMQC said they were prescription eyeglasses that she needed-sounds like she was near-sighted (or do you call it short-sighted over there?)

 

[epiphany]

Mother hung on the belief that I knew where SL was all through the years.

Was your relationship with Sylvia's family (in particular, her Mother) harmed or severed, and if so, at what point in time did this occur?

 

[Dushi]

I know-but she needed the glasses to see. I can't imagine her getting angry and tossing her glasses, of all things, but if they fell or if he knocked them off her face, and she jumped out of the car without them because she was afraid of him, he might say to her parents that she threw them before she left the car. I really don't understand his treatment of MMQC, either. In my opinion, BF/F knows much more than he has said, even if it is only that he did something that caused her to leave the car abruptly without the glasses that she needed so she could see. Either he was able to avoid being questioned by the police, or this ridiculous tale about the glasses somehow didn't resonate with them.

I completely get your point, would you destroy the glasses you needed to see?

And also, why be abusive to someone who loved her as you did, or should have?

 

[epiphany]

I had never seen any signs of violence in the relationship. However she did tell me of a fight she wittnessed between BF/F and BF/F's mother in which it got physical. At that time I advised breaking off engagement If I were in her shoes.

As for throwing glasses against dashboard. I doubt it as she could not read with out them. No cheater glasses back then they were prescription. They could have possibly been knocked from her face. MOO (my opinion only)

BTW, I never knew about the glasses until reading it on WS.

BBM

After Sylvia relayed this incident to you, what did she say about her feelings toward what she described? What was her attitude about such behavior?

Did she defend her BF/F?

What were her feelings/attitude toward her father after his behavior at the graduation/pool party you attended?

How did Sylvia feel about her father mistaking a seemingly large shiny diamond ring for a silver beer tab?

What did she confide in you about her deep feelings about these types of behaviors by the men she loved?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I know-but she needed the glasses to see. I can't imagine her getting angry and tossing her glasses, of all things, but if they fell or if he knocked them off her face, and she jumped out of the car without them because she was afraid of him, he might say to her parents that she threw them before she left the car. I really don't understand his treatment of MMQC, either. In my opinion, BF/F knows much more than he has said, even if it is only that he did something that caused her to leave the car abruptly without the glasses that she needed so she could see. Either he was able to avoid being questioned by the police, or this ridiculous tale about the glasses somehow didn't resonate with them.

BBM1: I agree. The only way I can imagine this is if she first had taken them off bc she was crying ... then, as they may have be in her hand, it could have been just a reaction.

BBM2: I think this is a really strong point. Why would he even bring it up? I only see two possibilities for that: (1) the one you said, that he was worried that somehow she would return/be found w.o her glasses, or someone would find them in his possession, and he knew he'd have to be able to explain why he had them and why they were broken, or (2) he tried to think on his feet and add a dramatic element to his story, and this was the first stupid thought that came to mind.

But -- I don't know if I can put this into words -- there's also something very "preliminary" about the detail. I mean, it seems the scenario was never questioned/tested. Was there a decision he made, or something he did later, that made it a moot point? or turned it into an unnecessary detail? Some advise or help he got that made him revise the story, or silence it altogether?

And if the glasses story were true, that means they were in his possession, right? What happened to them? Why didn't anyone ever ask him for them? They are evidence.

 

[Jmoose]

And if the glasses story were true, that means they were in his possession, right? What happened to them? Why didn't anyone ever ask him for them? They are evidence.

Yes-what about this? I honestly don't think the police ever talked to BF/F, or if they did, they dropped it at "I have nothing to say-she got out of the car on Richmond Ave." or something like that.

 

[Jmoose]

I started thinking about the police report which was made by Sylvia's mother in 1975-would or should the BF/F's name have normally appeared on it as the last person to see Sylvia? I assume that the police must have asked about the name and contact info for the last to see her, but it wasn't on the report. I can ask my police contact, but the protocol may be different now than it was then.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Starting a (VI) timeline: To our VI (s) any additions and corrections can be revised to timeline.


09.06.75
5 pm: (ASWDH) BF/F came over to the residence around 5pm to see a movie Sylvia at a cinema about 20 min away at K-Mart Plaza.

10 pm: (MMQC) BF/F shows up at girlfriend’s house and stating they had a fight, and said Sylvia left to take the bus. It is noted he was angry. Girlfriend and her father drive to the mall to look for SL.

10:30 pm: (ASWDH) BF/F ‘returned to Sylvia’s house stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off’.

10:30pm -12am: (ASWDH) EL got in the car and drove around the Staten Island Mall, but didn’t see her. She called the 122 precinct and tried to report a missing person but could not because Sylvia wasn't missing for 24 hrs, yet.


09.07.75
Next morning: (MMQC) “I took her (EL) to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.”

6pm Next evening: (PR) (ASWDH) EL went to the 122 precinct to file a formal missing person report. --Time and place last seen (Saturday Sept. 6, 1975 -6pm, K-Mart Plaza, Richmond, SI)) on police report filed by Sylvia’s mom (EL).

(MMQC) LE informed her (EL) that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate. NOTHING followed. I was in contact with SL's mother about this. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE. I never spoke to LE in 1975. They said they would follow up with all names SL's parents gave them


Days and weeks after disappearance: (ASWDH) after SL disappears: “BF/F wouldn't answer and more questions concerning Sylvia.”

(MMQC) -I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.

A week or two later: (ASWDH) “... the family hired a private investigator”

December 1975: (MMQC) “I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75”.

Sometime later (what year?): (MMQC) & (ASWDH) --It is heard that the ring is in BF/F's possession.


2010
(MMQC) --Contacted by Cold Case detective