NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[Odyssey]

*sigh*

In my email to the library, I asked for information the private investigators listed on SI in 1975... explained that I am out of state and unable to come to the library in person.

Received a response telling me what floor the phone books are on, and where I can find copiers.

I guess I'll try another library.:banghead:

 

[gajonka]

Gajonka-is that specific address purposeful? Did you mean to end up in Doylestown, my former home, and still home of my parents? ( not literally on that street, but close enough, lol). What is it about that particular spot on Enders Rd? If it matters, I don't think those houses and streets were there in 1975-it was all farm land then, I think

Hi - that was just random...

 

[Ghostwheel]

So there was no newspaper article, or posters with her info on it? That does make it more difficult, so looking for articles in newspaper archives probably would not yield anything.

Even that could be hard for so long ago. A friend of mine who was murdered in 1980 is practically non-existant, with the exception of a small notation in someone's ancestry. And we passed out plenty of posters, had a considerable amount of newspaper articles, etc. Even the newspaper article morgue is missing a lot of them.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

My brother is 6 years older than me. So, no. We did not mix with his friends. It just so happens that he and her parents lived in the same duplex. I had heard from SL that the family next door was splitting up and they were selling out cheap for the divorce. My brother's family was expanding at the time and they only rented and needed a place with at least 3 bedrooms. As a matter of fact one easter SL's ducks were hatching some eggs and she put them in a box on their front porch. She said they could board them at her house and they could come daily and visit with donald and daffy. They had a few geese, some white ducks and a turkey in the yard. Most times the eggs were consumed and not hatched.

As far as my BF/F and his close friends, they were all married at the time. So we hardly mingled as they had kids already and we really did not have much in common with them then. Even after we married we socialized very little as we did not have any kids and never did. Not that we did not want any it happened and I did not carry to term. After 15 years of trying we just gave up. It was not meant to be.

BBM: Sounds very cozy, MMQC! Where I live, lots of places are like this -- shared central wall, yard, porches. And it sounds like you're saying SL gave the ducklings to the kids for Easter? You just don't see that anymore, do you? But it used to be quite the thing (probably no longer bc the ducklings rarely made it past a month!).

Your post made me think of something. Did SL babysit for your brother? How about other families? And did she ever hold any other kind of job -- say, during the summers?

 

[gajonka]

Re Odyssey's post, I agree that it's more "possible" than "likely," but I guess without more information to fully discredit it, I'm unable to let it go. It also occurs to me that this is most hopeful of all scenarios, where SL is concerned, so I also like that it still stands alongside the darker possibilities in my mind.

Hello, Ghostwheel -- This adds "meat" to the word "possibility" for me as well. The name change could have come easily, through marriage, or be her own creation. Maybe as a runaway, she went by an alias and it stuck.

Re the part BBM, I brought ASWDeerHunter's post forward for the new posters, as well as to refresh my own mind. I remember some discussion about the SSN in thread one that followed much along the lines of what is happening here now, that it was not something everyone got right away -- marriage may even have been when it would first be needed, but I am not sure of that. Do we even know she had one at 22?

I am guessing that the passport was needed for her to travel from Germany to the U.S. when she was very little. Did she need an SSN to get one from the consulate at that time? Or only her parents' say-so that she was their child? If she never had an SSN, she could truly have started fresh.

Also, I don't believe a driver's license was ever verified. ASWDH doesn't mention it. And while MMQC has described times when she drove SL places -- and when SL's father drove SL to Wagner -- I don't recall hearing any stories in which Sylvia drove.

Would a birth certificate be needed for a marriage license in those days? Would it be needed to get an SSN? A DL? I wonder, given the out-of-the-country birth, how this was handled. She would have been a citizen by virtue of her father's citizenship, right? Whereas her mother may have been naturalized? Did she have an official BC?

In any case, if SL's decision to flee was spontaneous, I doubt she would have had any of these documents in her possession (except a DL if she had one), so she would literally have had to start from scratch. It's possible she could have applied for new copies of existing documents, but would good would they be if she changed her name?

Yes, the best possible scenario, IMO, would be that she connected with a runaway network that helped young people create new lives for themselves, complete with all of this documentation. Not saying likely, just possible -- and clinging to it. (ETA: And it would be one way of explaining how she's managed to stay out of the limelight of the interweb.)

MMQC or ASWDeerHunter, can you tell us anything about these documents?

The runaway excuse - as we know - is -at a minimum - a big, bright yellow flag. It is BOGUS. I recognie the need to exhaust all possible scenarios.

Would you find it odd if someone becomes a registered user - views a certain thread- constantly - yet never posts,,, ANYTHING.

Just something to think about.

If we could somehow convince Tricia and Kimster and Bessie to allocate - as a mid-card, or under-card - a block of timer on T's show... that would bew the next course of action. Reighning in LE - as we've written to one indy, and will be sending letter two shortly.

Thanks to everyone,
The Gajonka

 

[bessie]

respectfully snipped

Would you find it odd if someone becomes a registered user - views a certain thread- constantly - yet never posts,,, ANYTHING.

Thanks to everyone,
The Gajonka

Gajonka, we have many members who visit the board to gain information from reading. Some lurk for a year or more before they post, and some never do. That's perfectly fine. Readers, talkers, lurkers, all members are welcome to enjoy the board at their leisure.

 

[MMQC]

BBM: Sounds very cozy, MMQC! Where I live, lots of places are like this -- shared central wall, yard, porches. And it sounds like you're saying SL gave the ducklings to the kids for Easter? You just don't see that anymore, do you? But it used to be quite the thing (probably no longer bc the ducklings rarely made it past a month!).

Your post made me think of something. Did SL babysit for your brother? How about other families? And did she ever hold any other kind of job -- say, during the summers?

SL did not babysit for my brother. That was my job....LOL As for other families? Don't think so. As for other jobs. One summer my dad bought this old Lambretta motor scooter with a freezer attached. He painted it all up in white and yellow. He got a yellow and white striped canopy put over the freezer and SL and I went from neighborhood to neighborhood ringing the ice cream bells selling pre-made ice pops, ice cream etc. What a summer that was. We'd get up early re-stock at the wholesale ice cream place and then be on the road by 11-ish. It was a kick start scooter. We both got our permits for a motorcycle license. We had a whole lot of fun that summer and made some good bucks too. At the end of that summer the scooter broke down and we had to send to Italy for parts. The freezer was full. It took us 3 weeks to consume the rest of the contents. The day it broke down we had to take turns running ahead to make sure the cross streets were ok to pass. It was either use first or push. It was a heavy freezer so pushing was out of the question. We had to think of a way for the kids to wait for us and not buy from the Good Humor man or Mister Softee. We bought some wholesale candy and marked it with either a red dot or a red X. We'd wait till we had a big pack of kids and then take a handfull of candy and toss it in the air. They scrambled for the candy and anyone that had a red X or a red dot got their pick of the cart for free. We were freelance and the Good Humor man and the Mr. Softee trucks had specific routes. We would cross paths once in a while and got the evil eye from them both....LOL

The next summer we painted rooms for people. It started out painting for my parents. We did a good job and their friends then hired us. Then we painted for some of my parents friends and by word of mouth got more jobs. A room here and there got us throught the summer. We did more than the average house painter would do. Take down the drapes take them to the dry cleaners. Wash walls before painting then the windows after painting. Move furinture, paint then go back pick up the drapes and put them back up. $50 per room the customer had to buy the paint. We also had fun that summer too. I remember we had a paint fight. We ended up painting each other....It took a while to get the paint out of our hair. I think that took care of the summers of 72 & 74. We had decided to take off the summer of 75 as we figured we would be working after that. The summer of 73 I worked for my dad at his office answering the phone. Don't recall what SL did that summer.

Now that surely was a walk down memory lane....

 

[GoingByMyGut]

SL did not babysit for my brother. That was my job....LOL As for other families? Don't think so. As for other jobs. One summer my dad bought this old Lambretta motor scooter with a freezer attached. He painted it all up in white and yellow. He got a yellow and white striped canopy put over the freezer and SL and I went from neighborhood to neighborhood ringing the ice cream bells selling pre-made ice pops, ice cream etc. What a summer that was. We'd get up early re-stock at the wholesale ice cream place and then be on the road by 11-ish. It was a kick start scooter. We both got our permits for a motorcycle license. We had a whole lot of fun that summer and made some good bucks too. At the end of that summer the scooter broke down and we had to send to Italy for parts. The freezer was full. It took us 3 weeks to consume the rest of the contents. The day it broke down we had to take turns running ahead to make sure the cross streets were ok to pass. It was either use first or push. It was a heavy freezer so pushing was out of the question. We had to think of a way for the kids to wait for us and not buy from the Good Humor man or Mister Softee. We bought some wholesale candy and marked it with either a red dot or a red X. We'd wait till we had a big pack of kids and then take a handfull of candy and toss it in the air. They scrambled for the candy and anyone that had a red X or a red dot got their pick of the cart for free. We were freelance and the Good Humor man and the Mr. Softee trucks had specific routes. We would cross paths once in a while and got the evil eye from them both....LOL

The next summer we painted rooms for people. It started out painting for my parents. We did a good job and their friends then hired us. Then we painted for some of my parents friends and by word of mouth got more jobs. A room here and there got us throught the summer. We did more than the average house painter would do. Take down the drapes take them to the dry cleaners. Wash walls before painting then the windows after painting. Move furinture, paint then go back pick up the drapes and put them back up. $50 per room the customer had to buy the paint. We also had fun that summer too. I remember we had a paint fight. We ended up painting each other....It took a while to get the paint out of our hair. I think that took care of the summers of 72 & 74. We had decided to take off the summer of 75 as we figured we would be working after that. The summer of 73 I worked for my dad at his office answering the phone. Don't recall what SL did that summer.

Now that surely was a walk down memory lane....

BBM: That surely was! Thanks for those vivid recollections, MMQC!

 

[AW23]

Does that last line say "...will not handle?"

 

[Odyssey]

Does that last line say "...will not handle?"

Yep! We have no idea why it would say that, though.

 

[epiphany]

Does that last line say "...will not handle?"

Welcome to Sylvia's thread AW23.

Yes, that is written by that detective on the Police Report who notes time was 16:45.

Then, the PR notes Time Reported 17:00...May have been given or passed to a different detective.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

SL did not babysit for my brother. That was my job....LOL As for other families? Don't think so. As for other jobs. One summer my dad bought this old Lambretta motor scooter with a freezer attached. He painted it all up in white and yellow. He got a yellow and white striped canopy put over the freezer and SL and I went from neighborhood to neighborhood ringing the ice cream bells selling pre-made ice pops, ice cream etc. What a summer that was. We'd get up early re-stock at the wholesale ice cream place and then be on the road by 11-ish. It was a kick start scooter. We both got our permits for a motorcycle license. We had a whole lot of fun that summer and made some good bucks too. At the end of that summer the scooter broke down and we had to send to Italy for parts. The freezer was full. It took us 3 weeks to consume the rest of the contents. The day it broke down we had to take turns running ahead to make sure the cross streets were ok to pass. It was either use first or push. It was a heavy freezer so pushing was out of the question. We had to think of a way for the kids to wait for us and not buy from the Good Humor man or Mister Softee. We bought some wholesale candy and marked it with either a red dot or a red X. We'd wait till we had a big pack of kids and then take a handfull of candy and toss it in the air. They scrambled for the candy and anyone that had a red X or a red dot got their pick of the cart for free. We were freelance and the Good Humor man and the Mr. Softee trucks had specific routes. We would cross paths once in a while and got the evil eye from them both....LOL

The next summer we painted rooms for people. It started out painting for my parents. We did a good job and their friends then hired us. Then we painted for some of my parents friends and by word of mouth got more jobs. A room here and there got us throught the summer. We did more than the average house painter would do. Take down the drapes take them to the dry cleaners. Wash walls before painting then the windows after painting. Move furinture, paint then go back pick up the drapes and put them back up. $50 per room the customer had to buy the paint. We also had fun that summer too. I remember we had a paint fight. We ended up painting each other....It took a while to get the paint out of our hair. I think that took care of the summers of 72 & 74. We had decided to take off the summer of 75 as we figured we would be working after that. The summer of 73 I worked for my dad at his office answering the phone. Don't recall what SL did that summer.

Now that surely was a walk down memory lane....

BBM1: So, oops! Of course, that would have been you ... I should have thought of that. LOL. And how nice! I'm guessing that babysittig for your brother's kids gave you and SL a chance to hang out together semi-independently, since she lived right there.

BBM2: Was that like an internship for you? In the city maybe? Did he work for a big company and did that help connect you with your later job after college? Again, speaking of these kinds of opportunities makes me wonder if SL had similar ones in her area of interest. She sounds so "hands-on" with animals in your descriptions here (as well as in your earlier ones with catching seahorses for the saltwater tank). Did she ever have a chance to, say, work with a vet? Or did Wagner offer any marine science internships that she tried for? I know such things were fewer and farther between in those days, but they existed -- and with SI being so close to the water, I was thinking they might have had such things at the time.

 

[epiphany]

The runaway excuse - as we know - is -at a minimum - a big, bright yellow flag. It is BOGUS. I recognie the need to exhaust all possible scenarios.

Would you find it odd if someone becomes a registered user - views a certain thread- constantly - yet never posts,,, ANYTHING.

Just something to think about.

If we could somehow convince Tricia and Kimster and Bessie to allocate - as a mid-card, or under-card - a block of timer on T's show... that would bew the next course of action. Reighning in LE - as we've written to one indy, and will be sending letter two shortly.

Thanks to everyone,
The Gajonka

BBM

Reigning in LE ^^ above...in this case, that would be NYPD.

Why does NYPD have to be "reigned in"?

Gajonka, who are you speaking for...as in when you use "we"?

"We've written to one (NYPD personnel?) indy (independently?) and will be sending letter two..."

 

[rosesfromangels]

Even that could be hard for so long ago. A friend of mine who was murdered in 1980 is practically non-existant, with the exception of a small notation in someone's ancestry. And we passed out plenty of posters, had a considerable amount of newspaper articles, etc. Even the newspaper article morgue is missing a lot of them.

Some families consider it a "scandal" of some sort and try to pretend it never happened. At least publicly.

 

[epiphany]

Hi - that was just random...

Ah, the pin drop was a random landing in a Doylestown, PA neighborhood.

That's good to know.

 

[rosesfromangels]

MMQC,
If you had to guess, what would you think the top three things SL and her BF/F might have been having a contentious argument about? I have my list, but interested in your thoughts first.

 

[rosemadderlake]

The runaway excuse - as we know - is -at a minimum - a big, bright yellow flag. It is BOGUS. I recognie the need to exhaust all possible scenarios.

Would you find it odd if someone becomes a registered user - views a certain thread- constantly - yet never posts,,, ANYTHING.

Just something to think about.

If we could somehow convince Tricia and Kimster and Bessie to allocate - as a mid-card, or under-card - a block of timer on T's show... that would bew the next course of action. Reighning in LE - as we've written to one indy, and will be sending letter two shortly.

Thanks to everyone,
The Gajonka

BBM:
My perception is we (WS) are operating somewhat in the dark by the semi-public nature of the forum, and the TOS of this case...

The non- sleuth-worthy, “off limits” part of this case really does look very incomplete, with no idea really, or reason to know if she even saw a movie that night, or was even on Staten Island that night —but if we were to all agree it looks bad and call it a day, I think some, and I know I would be concerned that a potential vital missing piece went overlooked.

So my thoughts today are: There is a whole other side to Sylvia’s story. There is the nature of her BF/F and her relationship with him. There is her family’s and friend’s impression of him, then and now. There is her family life and the difficult pieces of her story, there. And there are the missing pieces of her connections during her college years and her engagement years. And the missing pieces of the PR, PI, & cold case files. What has not been shared is noticed, too. IMO

The recent fan out of publicity awareness, forum discussion, roll out reward is all good timing, because as time goes on so does the possibility of capturing that vital piece of someone’s memory or the need to share it.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I read you loud and clear on these questions but I really can't remember. What does jog my memory is that she was really over the top in love with the biology trip she took to bermuda while at wagner. Being able to swim with the dolphins and snorkel and scuba dive for live specimines. She really loved that. She did want to travel again in that direction, which to my recollection is where she wanted to honeymoon. You know it's only now that I remember that. I guess talking and answering questions and even talking to my friends now about this cold case has made me remember things that I thought were long gone from my memory bank.

I'll post anything else that is shaken loose from this old gray head.

BBM:
It is all good MMQC - You have been the key to a better understanding of Sylvia. From everything I have learned about Sylvia, this is not a person who would just up and leave home and never look back. --But if she did willingly or unwillingly and there is any possible chance that this lovely woman could somehow be alive, these are surely the memories, the pieces of knowing, and the voice from the past that could bring the missing piece to Sylvia…

I can relate to the “shake it loose from this old grey head”!!! LOL –Think I have a few more silver hairs, from reading this thread… lease:

 

[MMQC]

BBM1: So, oops! Of course, that would have been you ... I should have thought of that. LOL. And how nice! I'm guessing that babysittig for your brother's kids gave you and SL a chance to hang out together semi-independently, since she lived right there.

BBM2: Was that like an internship for you? In the city maybe? Did he work for a big company and did that help connect you with your later job after college? Again, speaking of these kinds of opportunities makes me wonder if SL had similar ones in her area of interest. She sounds so "hands-on" with animals in your descriptions here (as well as in your earlier ones with catching seahorses for the saltwater tank). Did she ever have a chance to, say, work with a vet? Or did Wagner offer any marine science internships that she tried for? I know such things were fewer and farther between in those days, but they existed -- and with SI being so close to the water, I was thinking they might have had such things at the time.

As for working for my dad? He had his own manfacturing plant on SI. I worked there only one summer. That is were I started dating my BF/F. I went to college to become a teacher. When I student taught I got beat up by 2 boys in the third grade which ended up with me in the hospital. Nice middle class neighborhood too. I ended up working for the worlds largest department store then worked my way up the ranks to Asst. buyer then I jumped ship and went to work for one of the manfacturers I dealt with.

As far as SL was concerned I don't think other than the jobs we had together that she ever worked. Well, at a paid job that is. Her hobbies and music really kept her busy.

 

[MMQC]

MMQC,
If you had to guess, what would you think the top three things SL and her BF/F might have been having a contentious argument about? I have my list, but interested in your thoughts first.

Wedding plans?

Which movie to go to?

I really don't want to go to her past relationships but that could be a possibility.