NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #2

[Odyssey]

MMQC, what kind of seaside/harbor culture existed on SI in the 1970s? I see SI is surrounded by water, but I really know nothing about what that meant for residents or tourists.

In terms of beaches, were their "shore" type restaurants, arcades, night clubs, boardwalks (both the kind you just walk on, and the kind that feature rides, games of chance, frozen custard, etc.) like there were/are here in Jersey?

In terms of harbor culture, were there marinas/moorings, sport fishing boats, ship builders/repair places, commercial fishing operations?

And in terms of you, SL, and your circles of family/friends, did you know people who lived or worked in these worlds? Did you or they frequent these places?

I'll contribute what I can remember:

There were a couple beaches, South Beach was the most popular. There was an amusement park, not right on the beach, but it was called South Beach Amusement Park, so I'm guessing it was nearby. It wasn't a huge one like Great Adventure or anything, but it had rides, games, etc.

Snug Harbor is a tourist attraction.

Sailors' Snug Harbor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't really remember waterfront restaurants, but they probably existed.

From what I can recall, most people went to Manhattan for entertainment - major shopping, Broadway shows, lots of restaurants, etc. East Village in Manhattan was a popular neighborhood for young adults, very artsy/hippie, from what I remember.

Speaking of hippie, MMQC, did Sylvia seem interested in the hippie culture?

 

[rosemadderlake]

It has been just a year since I re-posted this case on Websleuths. There certainly have been a lot of posts since that time - 12 pages of them in this year alone. I had previously posted the case in 2010 and that thread had 46 pages of postings in less than two years!

With all the interest in Sylvia's case, hopefully some resolution can be found.

Here is a link to the Doenetwork on Sylvia's case which has some photos of her:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2928dfny.html

bbm:

Hi Richard-
I think thread #1 -(46 pages) and #2 (pages 12) are all from 2013 beginning in March 2013, with the exception of a few posts from 2010-2012 on page 1, thread #1.

I am curious as well if there is another thread not listed from 2010 - 2012?
Rose

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Hi Richard, do you have a link to the thread you posted in 2010, I didn't see it at the bottom of the page. Think it would be interesting to those 46 pages.

Would that be Thread #1, listed at the bottom of the page under "Similar Threads"?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Would that be Thread #1, listed at the bottom of the page under "Similar Threads"?

Almost all our posts are from 2013. --On Page #1 of the 'similar thread' at the bottom of the page, March 2013 begins at post #5.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Animals, salt water tank, art and music. She was active in the band at college. Practise always and football games. She was not in the SI band. Did not give lessons to kids. She liked art too. I might have said this before but she sketched a portrait of me with a pencil from my HS yearbook photo. To this day is still hangs in my home. Through the years there were several types of birds in her room, gerbils and hamsters. Three dogs, a cat and various yard animals. Ducks, geese, and a turkey. Can't remember if there were any chickens. They all kept very busy with the animals and the vegetable garden.

bbm:

MMQC: Was Sylvia in the college band that played during football games? If so, did she and /or (the band) attend any "away games" at other schools?

 

[GoingByMyGut]

bbm:

MMQC: Was Sylvia in the college band that played during football games? If so, did she and /or (the band) attend any "away games" at other schools?

Thanks for the above about the thread dates, Rose.

BBM: That's what the marching band is. They usually march onto the field (at home games anyway) at the beginning of the game, playing at least what's called a "cadence" (rhythm only by drummer); they play in the stands during the game (home games -- not sure about away); and they do a half time show. In my experience, they also travel to away games but I'm not sure how the bands share the limelight. I am thinking both bands probably play in the stands bc they are on opposite sides of the field. They may also both do half-time shows. (Feels like a century ago to me!)

 

[rosemadderlake]

Thanks for the above about the thread dates, Rose.

BBM: That's what the marching band is. They usually march onto the field (at home games anyway) at the beginning of the game, playing at least what's called a "cadence" (rhythm only by drummer); they play in the stands during the game (home games -- not sure about away); and they do a half time show. In my experience, they also travel to away games but I'm not sure how the bands share the limelight. I am thinking both bands probably play in the stands bc they are on opposite sides of the field. They may also both do half-time shows. (Feels like a century ago to me!)

I am thinking it may not be the full marching band at the football games. Sometimes it is a smaller version band depending on the school?.. Some I remember were pretty small.

So Sylvia may have traveled to other schools. I wonder if there was another school she really liked in particular, or was thinking about for future grad school...

MMQC - Was she in the college orchestra? Did she play the flute in addition to the piccolo?

 

[MMQC]

MMQC, what kind of seaside/harbor culture existed on SI in the 1970s? I see SI is surrounded by water, but I really know nothing about what that meant for residents or tourists.

In terms of beaches, were their "shore" type restaurants, arcades, night clubs, boardwalks (both the kind you just walk on, and the kind that feature rides, games of chance, frozen custard, etc.) like there were/are here in Jersey?

In terms of harbor culture, were there marinas/moorings, sport fishing boats, ship builders/repair places, commercial fishing operations?

And in terms of you, SL, and your circles of family/friends, did you know people who lived or worked in these worlds? Did you or they frequent these places?

Back in the 70's the only beach/amusment was at South Beach. The Great Kills Harbor and marina area were there were many docks for private boats were in that area. There were boat yards but only for land storrage. SL lived at the very end of the cove. Depending on the day you could almost walk across the opening at low tide to the jetty. We mostly walked from her home to the water to collect. As far as any board walks. Midland beach area had one that was in great disrepair. It was later refurburshed and now is quite a place for taking walks. Niether one of us hung out at bars. It's much more built up now with lots of private developments but then again Sandy took care of most of them. I don't even know if any are even up and running yet. Severe storm damage took out everything down there.

 

[MMQC]

MMQC, do you have any pictures of Sylvia that you can share with us? I also wonder if it's possible that LE or someone that is experienced, can do a progression sketch of her to show us what she would look like now? Just guessing, but since LE contacted you in 2010 they might be open to you calling them and asking questions. I have tried to talk to LE on other cases, but unless you are media, family, friend, etc. they tend to "talk" down to you and never answer your calls.

As far as photos? I have what has been posted already. We were not much for taking photos back then. It cost money to develop. You'd have to ask other insider for photos.

 

[MMQC]

I'll contribute what I can remember:

There were a couple beaches, South Beach was the most popular. There was an amusement park, not right on the beach, but it was called South Beach Amusement Park, so I'm guessing it was nearby. It wasn't a huge one like Great Adventure or anything, but it had rides, games, etc.

Snug Harbor is a tourist attraction.

Sailors' Snug Harbor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't really remember waterfront restaurants, but they probably existed.

From what I can recall, most people went to Manhattan for entertainment - major shopping, Broadway shows, lots of restaurants, etc. East Village in Manhattan was a popular neighborhood for young adults, very artsy/hippie, from what I remember.

Speaking of hippie, MMQC, did Sylvia seem interested in the hippie culture?

Not at all.

 

[MMQC]

Thanks for the above about the thread dates, Rose.

BBM: That's what the marching band is. They usually march onto the field (at home games anyway) at the beginning of the game, playing at least what's called a "cadence" (rhythm only by drummer); they play in the stands during the game (home games -- not sure about away); and they do a half time show. In my experience, they also travel to away games but I'm not sure how the bands share the limelight. I am thinking both bands probably play in the stands bc they are on opposite sides of the field. They may also both do half-time shows. (Feels like a century ago to me!)

Yes you are right GBMG. She made bus trips which I assume were the away games.

 

[MMQC]

I am thinking it may not be the full marching band at the football games. Sometimes it is a smaller version band depending on the school?.. Some I remember were pretty small.

So Sylvia may have traveled to other schools. I wonder if there was another school she really liked in particular, or was thinking about for future grad school...

MMQC - Was she in the college orchestra? Did she play the flute in addition to the piccolo?

I can't remember 100% but I think she started out playing the flute.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Back in the 70's the only beach/amusment was at South Beach. The Great Kills Harbor and marina area were there were many docks for private boats were in that area. There were boat yards but only for land storrage. SL lived at the very end of the cove. Depending on the day you could almost walk across the opening at low tide to the jetty. We mostly walked from her home to the water to collect. As far as any board walks. Midland beach area had one that was in great disrepair. It was later refurburshed and now is quite a place for taking walks. Niether one of us hung out at bars. It's much more built up now with lots of private developments but then again Sandy took care of most of them. I don't even know if any are even up and running yet. Severe storm damage took out everything down there.

BBM: I just looked at this on Google maps, MMQC, and I see just what you mean. That must have been idyllic! It probably looks nothing like that now. I can see from the map, just how much more built up it is. Thanks for that.

 

[Odyssey]

I just thought of something, possibly irrelevant, but thought I'd throw it out there.

SL was out shopping with MMQC, then MMQC dropped her off at home for her date with BF/F. All we ever heard about after that was a movie and an argument, I wonder when/where she was planning to eat dinner?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Here is a link to copy of archival article on the Wagner Seahawk Marching Band – from 1969.

(Paraphrased from article) ‘… James W. Herbert, band director came to Wagner in ’67. The marching band went from (8) members to (100) in the span of two years. He was able to build the marching band to 100 members and organize a symphonic group of 75 members. The marching band went on to play at half time for the New York Giants and was televised on CBS…’.

So, James Herbert brought the marching band back from the brink and put it on the map in the late 60’s. Chances are he was the band director in the 70’s and it looks like the Wagner Seahawks was a serious marching band.

http://www.pmsimon.com/images/1969giantseagles5.jpg

 

[MMQC]

I just thought of something, possibly irrelevant, but thought I'd throw it out there.

SL was out shopping with MMQC, then MMQC dropped her off at home for her date with BF/F. All we ever heard about after that was a movie and an argument, I wonder when/where she was planning to eat dinner?

No clue.

 

[Richard]

Hi Richard, do you have a link to the thread you posted in 2010, I didn't see it at the bottom of the page. Think it would be interesting to those 46 pages.

Here is a link to the first thread:

NY NY - Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #1 - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

 

[Dushi]

Ok, so the original thread is thread #1.
Started in 2010 with a few posts and picked up again in 2013

 

[gajonka]

Bumping up GBMG's timeline:

September 6, 1975

Sat. afternoon-4-ish: MMQC & SL spend afternoon together. MMQC: “Mall shopping running errands etc. Dropped her off at home so she could get ready for date with BF/F. That was the last time I saw her.”

Sat. 5 or 6 PM: BF/F picks SL up at home for their date. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles came over to the residents around 5pm to see a movie Sylvia at a cinema about 20 min away.” Alternate time of “6 PM” added as per PR.

5/6-10 PM: Window of uncertainty. Date details unverified. Mall? Movie? Fight? Bus stop?

Sat. 10 PM: BF/F shows up at MMQC’s house, tells her about fight, asks her to pick SL up from the bus stop. MMQC: “I did not know exact time of DATE. What I do know is that BF/F did say after movie they had fight she got out of the car and would take the bus home.” and “He did say they had a fight and she stormed out of the car by the mall. He seemed angry.”

10-11 PM: MMQC & her father drive around the mall area, trying to find SL, but they do not find her. MMQC: “We guessed that the bus came in the time between.”

10:30 PM: BF/F drives to SL’s residence and explains what happened. ASWDeerHunter: “Charles returned to the house approx. 10:30 stating that during an argument Sylvia had thrown her glasses against the dash board of the car and ran off.” (MMQC: “I truly don't remember BF/F EVER going to parents home that night.” and re EL: “She never mentioned to me that BF/F ever came by.”)

10:45 PM-Midnight (?): EL searches for SL by car. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva then got in the car and drove around the Staten Island Mall, but didn’t see her.”

11 PM (?): MMQC talks with her parents and decides not to alarm SL’s family with her concerns about SL -- “...did not want to worry SL's parents or raise a red flag if not warrented.” She calls under the guise of needing to talk to SL for personal reasons. “I called SL home stating I needed to talk to my friend. Saying that I had an issue that I had to talk to my best friend about. No matter what time.”

Around Midnight (?): EL calls LE. ASWDeerHunter: “Eva Lwowski called the 122pct and tried to report a missing person but could not because see wasn't missing for 24 hrs. yet.” and “... it was after Eva returned from the Mall that she called the 122pct.”

2 AM-7 AM (?): EL calls MMQC. MMQC: “Then after several hours passed SL's mother called my home asking WHAT HAPPENED? SL did not return home. It was then I told her about BF/F coming to my home telling me about the fight etc.” and “She called me asking what was up as SL never came home and it was very early the next morning.”

Sun. AM: MMQC & EL search Wagner, local area. “I took her to the Wagner campus then in the morning and cruised around at our local haunts to see if she was there or if anyone had seen her.”

Sun. 6 PM: EL reports her missing to LE (time as per PR). ASWDeerhunter: “The following day, Eva went to 122 pct to make a formal missing persons report and the police basically said she was over 21 and didn’t really spend to much time or resources in locating her.” MMQC: “LE informed her that SL was an adult and was not considered missing until missing for more than 48 hours as I recall. Then they were to bring current photo and a list of what she was wearing etc. Then LE would contact them at their home to follow up and investigate.”

Mon-Tues. (?): MMQC and EL stay in touch. “For a day or two. I was in contact with SL's mother about this.”

Wed. (?): MMQC & father request help from ADA. “My parents lived next door to an ADA. I then asked my dad to come with me to ask ADA to do something. It was then someone finally contacted parents from LE.”

UNSPECIFIED: MMQC calls BF/F about SL. “I called BF/F to see if SL contacted him. He was VERY RUDE to me on phone stating he had been made a sucker of he had given her a very expensive ring and she takes off, and don't call again. His mother was having a breakdown about it and not to call again.”

“Days and weeks” after SL disappears: ASWDeerHunter: “Charles wouldn't answer and more questions concerning Sylvia.”

1-2 Weeks after disappearance: ASWDeerHunter: “A week or two later the family hired a privet investigator and am not sure of the outcome of that investigation except a different version of her running off came out.”

Just before Xmas '75: MMQC calls BF/F. MMQC: “I last spoke to BF/F just before Xmas '75. Told him Fifi died (SL's pet poodle) and he said (insert my real name) who. I reminded BF/F who I was and he cursed me and said don't ever call here again ...”

Sometime in 1979-84: MMQC hears about ring when she meets a fellow SI’er: Convo turns to SL, fellow SI’er tells MMQC that knows BF/F through his brother/band and claims BF/F is in possession of the engagement ring he gave Sl.

2010: Cold Case contacts MMQC. “Other than the cold case Det. Savage calling me in 2010 that I never spoke to LE.”
__________________

It would be a progressively positive idea to begin a petitiopn of sorts - a list of names ( or aliases) built and designed to illustrate to the recipient that there's a pool of people who are interested in gaining a bit more info about what happened to Ms. Sylvia Lwowski. I love history - back in academia - some of my highest grades fell within that realm - history. - I do not recall the 70's being the decade when a ten year prohibition on conducting le investigations took place - nor do i recall it being a time when making people dissappear , hurting someone (POSSIBLE end result - common sense) was 'not a big deal.' Everything about this case - across the board - "not a big deal.:" Well, it is now... and someone has to answer. Remember the three different stories about the red light, the stop sign and traffic? I MEAN, LIKE, ARE YOU SERIOUS?!?!?! no! UNACCEPTABLE.

I re-introduce you to: Serpico
:
On May 3, 1971, New York Metro Magazine published an article about Serpico titled "Portrait of an Honest Cop". On May 10, 1971, Serpico testified at the departmental trial of an NYPD lieutenant who was accused of taking bribes from gamblers.

Ever see American Gangster? Josh Brolin played one of his best parts ever - as Trupo the dirty cop - they film was baded upon the real life story of Frank Lucas, It wasnt a fantasy.


The Knapp Commission was a committee of five citizens established and impanelled by then-New York City Mayor John Lindsay in 1972 that endeavored to investigate corrupt activities of police officers, detectives, and supervisors working in the New York Police Department (NYPD). Mayor Lindsay was pressured to investigate corruption in the NYPD after a series of articles that appeared in local newspapers detailed a wide breadth of corrupt activities of officers throughout the NYPD. The first article in the series was written by a reporter named David Burnham and the article appeared in the New York Times. The impetus and primary sources of information for Burnham’s article were two NYPD police officers, Frank Serpico and David Durk.

We all know that OVERTIME is the key word in LE. Am I driven by the desire to secure justice? or by OVERTIME... there is a difference.


I am sorry for being curt - just frustrated.

WIshinf everyone kind and pleasant moments,,, <MODSNIP>


YOur greatests admirer,

The Gajonka

 

[gajonka]

Sylvia Alice Lwowski, 22, Missing since September 6, 1975 from Staten Island, NY

Sylvia Alice Lwowski
Missing since September 6, 1975 from Staten Island, Richmond County, New York
Classification: Missing

Vital Statistics

Date of Birth: April 28, 1953
Age at Time of Disappearance: 22 years old
Height and Weight at Time of Disappearance: 5'4-5'6"; 120-125 lbs.
Distinguishing Characteristics: White female. Long, straight blonde hair; hazel eyes. Wears glasses.
Marks, Scars: Pierced ears.
Jewelry: Heart shaped engagement ring; a watch. She was carrying a handbag.
Dentals: Not available.
Fingerprints: Available

Circumstances of Disappearance

On September 6, 1975, Sylvia went out with her fiance to a movie. He returned stating that during an argument, she thew her glasses against the dashboard and ran from the car. Sylvia has not been seen since.

Investigators
If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:

New York City Police
718-834-4580

Agency Case Number: 10074

Source Information:

Namus
The Doe Network: Case File 2928DFNY

LINK:

http://www.doenetwork.org/cases/2928dfny.html

With the help of many key friends and family of Ms. Sylvia Lwowski - one absolute theme must be hammered home and stacked up as high as possible. The fact thet that BF/F acted like a careless, disrespectful, cold, heedless, mindless, rash, inconsiderate,lax, neglectful, negligent, thoughtless, absent-minded, forgetful, care-free, negligent (yes second use), cold, hostile (over the phone ) , lacking in friendliness or warmth of feeling, indifferent CLOSELY ASSOCIATED individual to this event - means alot -speaks bloody volumes -- it crushed Syvlia;s parents. - CRUSHED them. Could you imagine... bf could at least played the part - but to employ a run away scheme - which fooled many in the '70's - and to act in the manner evidenced... well - I say we petition up and give Sylviua something to smile about.

Wave III -- RRRRRRRRiiiiiisssseee!!!!!
The G

ps - sorry for the D- grammar, mechanics - I am having contact lens issues and need to type fast because I get timed out.