NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #3

[Jmoose]

BBM: Unless you're suggesting something else, it may just be because they are wetlands. Once the most readily build-able lots are gone, and RE values have risen enough, it becomes affordable to pay the extra money associated with salvaging less build-able lots. Of course, there are lots of private reasons that can be associated with land suddenly becoming available (like the death of old-time farmer or a property that's been tied up legal drama over an estate finally being settled). I've seen the same thing happen around here tho re sensitive environments: Once the prime property was taken, builders started looking at steep slopes.

The developers shouldn't be allowed to build in these areas-even if you don't care about the contamination that results from building in these sensitive areas, it isn't right that they should be allowed to fill the wetlands and then build. That water doesn't just disappear, it moves over to surrounding properties and changes them forever.

I wonder just how wet these wetlands are-could there be enough water there to hide any of the missing Staten Islanders?

 

[rosemadderlake]

The wetlands could have been owned by the state of NY. This looks like Spec Development from a mini Toll Bros. type of company with offices in NV and FL, etc… My guess, no smaller developer saw the benefit or profit in building on this particular wetlands parcel. Only high-density housing would make financial sense but the investment will be in site development, and the actual construction will be flimsy, but will be marketed much differently.

And yes, it is not only the water impact which would be significant, but traffic, noise, and neighborhood impact for cramming 100 units on only 9 acres. It doesn’t look like there was much time given to mount a citizen response either. Not sure how strong the preservation groups are on SI either which is still the lowest population density borough of NYC.

Defeating the development behemoths is not so easy. It took several years but a Walmart was shot down here in central Jersey due to a lot of protest noise from citizens groups (me included) and some savvy lawyers who took on the cause pro bono.

With wetlands, the topography shifts and changes all the time. I am surprised they could sell anything built on wetlands after seeing the whole east coast shift and erode after hurricane Sandy.

Imo: The power of water to move, shift, erase, carry downstream, and out to sea would make finding someone very difficult after 40 years…

 

[GoingByMyGut]

The developers shouldn't be allowed to build in these areas-even if you don't care about the contamination that results from building in these sensitive areas, it isn't right that they should be allowed to fill the wetlands and then build. That water doesn't just disappear, it moves over to surrounding properties and changes them forever.

I wonder just how wet these wetlands are-could there be enough water there to hide any of the missing Staten Islanders?

Agreed. Tell that to the city planners. I'm surprised the DEC permitted it. But it happens all the time. $$

 

[GoingByMyGut]

TBM to respond to the below:

Imo: The power of water to move, shift, erase, carry downstream, and out to sea would make finding someone very difficult after 40 years…

Probably so. Though I guess it depends on how wet the wetlands are the direction of the water source that keeps them wet. Could it be fed from below, for instance? Someone in the article you linked us to said there used to be a stream there ("Another resident ... said there was once a stream flowing through the property."), which would have a current, but I'm not sure all wetlands do. Do you have any idea?

Of course, the thinking may be moot, as 40 years is a lot of time for decay. I'm under the impression water accelerates decay -- it that your understanding too?

 

[rosemadderlake]

TBM to respond to the below:


Probably so. Though I guess it depends on how wet the wetlands are the direction of the water source that keeps them wet. Could it be fed from below, for instance? Someone in the article you linked us to said there used to be a stream there ("Another resident ... said there was once a stream flowing through the property."), which would have a current, but I'm not sure all wetlands do. Do you have any idea?

Of course, the thinking may be moot, as 40 years is a lot of time for decay. I'm under the impression water accelerates decay -- it that your understanding too?

Wetlands are so individual and unique. Lambert La parcel sits on a fresh water wetland and the stream could be a vernal stream, spring fed, or fed by tributary. I do wonder how this company got a variance to build there. The construction is different on wetlands. Knowing how certain developments were built here in the 80's on sensitive fresh water wetlands, all I can say is what a shame and good luck with that. After hurricane Irene the water table increased and broke through underground into the Delaware Raritan canal causing it to collapse in whole areas, and the flooding it caused to some historical neighborhoods was substantial because of the development. It impacts everything. -I think it is very unpredictable when building on water. The old turn of the century maps really show the extent of the wetlands on Staten Island. You can build on top of it but I don't think the larger topography changes - there is still water underneath.

Yes, my understanding is water accelerates decay. In thinking about where to look for a body in water, I would think still or protected waters, with a weighted body; the harbor, or a lake, or a well defined pond rather than the uncertain boundaries of marshland accessibility.

 

[Jmoose]

TBM to respond to the below:


Probably so. Though I guess it depends on how wet the wetlands are the direction of the water source that keeps them wet. Could it be fed from below, for instance? Someone in the article you linked us to said there used to be a stream there ("Another resident ... said there was once a stream flowing through the property."), which would have a current, but I'm not sure all wetlands do. Do you have any idea?

Of course, the thinking may be moot, as 40 years is a lot of time for decay. I'm under the impression water accelerates decay -- it that your understanding too?

We own 2 lots-the one our house is built on, and the wooded lot next to it. There is a small stream that separates them, with a little bridge for access. The wooded lot is considered wetlands, and so cannot be used as a building lot, but it's only damp, not soaked, and if some of the trees were removed, it probably wouldn't be damp. I think the reason no building can take place there is because the stream in between the 2 lots would eventually carry any contamination to the reservoir that it leads to (this is why I stopped my neighbor from dumping used motor oil in my wooded lot-wonder how many times I didn't catch him?). I guess my point is, the definition of wetlands might be kind of broad, as it applies to building permits.

 

[alliemay]

It's nice when I scroll to the bottom and see that there are guests on this thread. Sometimes only one, sometimes up to four. It would be great if these guests would join our thread. If you don't feel comfortable doing that, a private message could always be sent to any one of us on here. Thanks for the interest.

 

[alliemay]

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/new_clues_in_haunting_mystery.html

"District Attorney Daniel Donovan revealed that his office has formally linked her disappearance to an earlier one -- that of Elizabeth Bump, a 39-year-old Tottenville woman who disappeared in April 1993 and was never found."

I wonder if Daniel Donovan can would be interested in looking into Sylvia's case?

//www.facebook.com/pages/Staten-Islands-Missing/228544980607074

It's nice to see that Sylvia is on this page, I hadn't seen this before.

 

[rosemadderlake]

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2012/09/new_clues_in_haunting_mystery.html

"District Attorney Daniel Donovan revealed that his office has formally linked her disappearance to an earlier one -- that of Elizabeth Bump, a 39-year-old Tottenville woman who disappeared in April 1993 and was never found."

I wonder if Daniel Donovan can would be interested in looking into Sylvia's case?

//www.facebook.com/pages/Staten-Islands-Missing/228544980607074

It's nice to see that Sylvia is on this page, I hadn't seen this before.

Skeet-
The SI DA’s office was quoted in the article on Sylvia. I’m assuming he is familiar with her case? -But it is being handled by the Cold Case Squad. I am making another assumption that these two departments communicate with each other. I don’t think we would find out anything from the investigation because it is still open, is my understanding.

“According to a spokesman for District Attorney Daniel Donovan, there was never an investigation by the office at the time of her disappearance "because it was classified as a missing persons case."

http://www.silive.com/news/index.ssf/2013/09/38_years_on_brother_of_staten.html

 

[MMQC]

MMQC: Do you remember if the ring was presented to Sylvia, or did they pick it out it together?

I really don't remember. OH BTW, the SIA article was on the front page and continued on page 4. I had a friend mail it to me.

 

[MMQC]

MMQC - What year was it that you had the summer painting jobs? Did you put an add in the local paper or did you just put up posters looking for jobs?

It all started with painting for my folks. Then word of mouth spread and we had more jobs than we could handle. '73 or '74?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I really don't remember. OH BTW, the SIA article was on the front page and continued on page 4. I had a friend mail it to me.

-Thanks MMQC. Bbm: It is good to know the article about Sylvia was a front page story.

 

[Odyssey]

Not that it's particularly useful, but I found an old photo...

 

[Jmoose]

My husband is now asking me every couple of days if there is anything new in Sylvia's case-it isn't much, but shows me that her disappearance piques the interest when people hear about it. I think someone here said that they tried to get one of the shows (48 hours?) interested in her disappearance, but they declined. I wonder if a different angle might be better-maybe one regarding the approach that LE takes with missing adults, where they say that there's no evidence of foul play, so they don't investigate (adults can go anywhere they want to, whenever they want to...).

 

[alliemay]

It all started with painting for my folks. Then word of mouth spread and we had more jobs than we could handle. '73 or '74?

Thanks for the reply. Noticed the question mark, so I read back some back threads. Maybe it was 1972 or 1974 because you mentioned you did office work for your Dad in 1973. I wonder if you can remember what year it was you sold ice cream, I would imagine since you needed a license, it was probably the year you both turned 16?

 

[alliemay]

Found out from someone from the area that is was the R4 bus that ran on Richmond Ave. for the Mall and K-Mart. Maybe not very useful but just a piece of info.

 

[alliemay]

Found out from someone from the area that is was the R4 bus that ran on Richmond Ave. for the Mall and K-Mart. Maybe not very useful but just a piece of info.

It was also the MTA buses.

Did this picture have a year?
"Not that it's particularly useful, but I found an old photo..."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: islandtheater.jpg Views: 10 Size: 14.1 KB ID: 37637

 

[GoingByMyGut]

It was also the MTA buses.

Did this picture have a year?
"Not that it's particularly useful, but I found an old photo..."
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version Name: islandtheater.jpg Views: 10 Size: 14.1 KB ID: 37637

Skeet, going by the movies in the marquee (E.T., Midsummer Night's Sex Comedy), I'd say 1982, which is when those movies opened. This "The Numbers" site gives you movie releases by month, day, and year for 1975. It appears the only new movie SL could have been going to see was Dog Day Afternoon.

Have you seen these images? They are the top and bottom halves of the ad that was printed in the SI Advance when the theater was about to twin (July 1975). If you look real close you can see the date of the paper is "June 21 or 27." I don't know where Odyssey found the photo she posted, but I saw it some time back on this Cinema Treasures site with the newspaper ad. If you use the arrows under the words "More Photos of This Theater," you can scroll through images people have posted of ticket stubs, etc. I didn't notice anything relevant, but you might.

 

[Jmoose]

What do any of you know about the Bloomfield section of Staten Island? How close is it to where Sylvia disappeared? Just thinking of this place because, at least in 1975, I think it was pretty desolate-a mostly industrial-type area with an oil terminal and lots of cement mixers, and the Gambinos did some of their bad things there.

Did we ever discuss the possibility that Sylvia could have taken a taxi that night? Could she have gotten out of that car on Richmond Ave. expecting to flag down a cab?

 

[alliemay]

I don't remember if we discussed the taxi angle, I think we talked about the possibility of her accepting a ride from a friend. You know, that night, MMQC was on her porch at ten in the evening with her friends from college. I think I remember MMQC saying that one of the friends she had in college did not know Sylvia. So I would assume it's possible that Sylvia may have had friends in her college that MMQC did not know. Maybe someone with a car. Back then they didn't have cell phones so IF Sylvia thought about calling someone she would have had to go to a pay phone. Possibly in the ice cream shop? Or if she thought about calling a taxi, again she would have had to use the pay phone. I wonder if she ever carried extra money in her purse, not having a job, any money she had would have had, would have to come from her parents or the BF/F, I would guess.