NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[Odyssey]

[/B]

Bbm: I think the reporter's choice of words was purposeful. -Not incompetent.

I agree, it probably was purposeful... but I think that to a reader who, without knowing all the apparent 'politics' involved, does a simple Google search, it would look like she really had no clue what she was doing. JMO. I think people expect news outlets to expose the truth, not cover it up, so I just think it could have made this reporter look really bad to her readers.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I agree, it probably was purposeful... but I think that to a reader who, without knowing all the apparent 'politics' involved, does a simple Google search, it would look like she really had no clue what she was doing. JMO. I think people expect news outlets to expose the truth, not cover it up, so I just think it could have made this reporter look really bad to her readers.

I realize my Q wondering why the SI Advance article was conservative was rhetorical because it is obvious to me why they did not pursue tying in, or bringing in the BFF identity. And I think the answer lies with the DA’s office, not the reporter. So, the reporter did expose the truth. (imo).

I also think to many who are not familiar with the back story politics - this is a story about a brother, a friend, and someone missing for so long, not an indictment of someone with no evidence. If newcomers look further I think they will draw their own conclusions accordingly which is as it should be until they find her, or until some critical piece comes to light.

 

[Jmoose]

I am sure it was purposefully worded that way-she is a professional, after all. I do wonder why she named him as an acquaintance, and not friend, or date, as GBMG said. The comments that ensued at the end of the article did not help the cause one bit-and I doubt that they will propel this writer into a second one.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I agree, it probably was purposeful... but I think that to a reader who, without knowing all the apparent 'politics' involved, does a simple Google search, it would look like she really had no clue what she was doing. JMO. I think people expect news outlets to expose the truth, not cover it up, so I just think it could have made this reporter look really bad to her readers.

BBM: But what is the truth exactly? On the one hand, if she had said "fiance" or named the BF/F, a "truth" could be implied that really only amounts to catering to innuendo. On the other hand, I agree that "acquaintance" was inaccurate -- and even misleading -- but I don't think saying "fiance" or naming the BF/F would have been responsible either. There is no "truth" here that's actually been established. I would have been happy with "friend" myself as it would have implied SL was with someone she at least knew.

Having worked as a reporter for about a decade, I know firsthand that people are always pushing their ideas of what "truth" is on them. It becomes instinctual to back away from that and dig deeper. Since no crime has been officially established, and nothing we know incriminates the BF/F other than having allegedly been the last to have seen her at an emotional moment, how ethical would it have been on the reporter's part to perpetuate that innuendo? Refusing to do that is exactly why people can "expect news outlets to expose the truth," IMO.

 

[Jmoose]

I agree, it probably was purposeful... but I think that to a reader who, without knowing all the apparent 'politics' involved, does a simple Google search, it would look like she really had no clue what she was doing. JMO. I think people expect news outlets to expose the truth, not cover it up, so I just think it could have made this reporter look really bad to her readers.

When I read an article that interests me enough to do some additional digging, I don't usually think this way in regard to the article's author. Typically, it makes me wonder why the author wrote it that way, and what the backstory is, as far as the investigation goes. It seems certain to me that this writer had some conversation, or at least tried to have, with people other than our VIs. She wouldn't be a responsible person if she didn't and so I think that is where the reluctance to name her fiance as the last to see her goes. There's no doubt that it was purposefully written in that way.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

When I read an article that interests me enough to do some additional digging, I don't usually think this way in regard to the article's author. Typically, it makes me wonder why the author wrote it that way, and what the backstory is, as far as the investigation goes. It seems certain to me that this writer had some conversation, or at least tried to have, with people other than our VIs. She wouldn't be a responsible person if she didn't and so I think that is where the reluctance to name her fiance as the last to see her goes. There's no doubt that it was purposefully written in that way.

BBM1: Me too.

BBM2: Didn't she quote or at least cite the DA? That's what I recall anyway. ETA: It's part of the job description that you have to consult official channels.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I’ll note that without knowing the entire apparent back story 'politics', one can search the internet and will find nameless, faceless publishing of opinions and rumors, pseudonyms, and our own anonymous contributions to this on Sylvia’s forum in the name of “imo”.

One will also notice she is not represented in those places one may search for her like classmates, Wagner, HS, websites, too.

 

[Jmoose]

Yes, She did quote Donovan. I really think she tried to do what she could without overstepping-and accusing someone with no legal basis to do so. I think it was a little disappointing for our VIs, but she was very fair, I think. It certainly would have been more accurate to say that she was last seen with a "friend with whom she went to see a movie", but I am confident that, even if she was inclined to do so, somebody waved her off, or else, she just knows better than to do it. Maybe Donovan told her not to.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Yes, She did quote Donovan. I really think she tried to do what she could without overstepping-and accusing someone with no legal basis to do so. I think it was a little disappointing for our VIs, but she was very fair, I think. It certainly would have been more accurate to say that she was last seen with a "friend with whom she went to see a movie", but I am confident that, even if she was inclined to do so, somebody waved her off, or else, she just knows better than to do it. Maybe Donovan told her not to.

BBM: Or her editor -- someone one step removed and more keenly focused on the paper's potential liability.

 

[Odyssey]

I just think she should have said SL was last seen with her fiance, and that he stated that she ran out of the car after an argument. That is the truth, and is backed up by the initial police report. I realize that I am more eager to see pressure put on him than some are, and I would have been thrilled if they'd mentioned him by name, but even if they hadn't, I would have understood. I do think the pressure needs to be applied legally and morally, and I am not in favor of 'accusing' him in the media. But, IMO, to say an acquaintance was not the truth.

Also, I think the fact that the article mentions that she was engaged, and then says she went to the movies with an 'acquaintance' (as opposed to friend, family member, etc) could lead people to think she was seeing someone else.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

Also, I think the fact that the article mentions that she was engaged, and then says she went to the movies with an 'acquaintance' (as opposed to friend, family member, etc) could lead people to think she was seeing someone else.

This I agree with. The final choice was awkward and misleading.

 

[Jmoose]

I’ll note that without knowing the entire apparent back story 'politics', one will find nameless, faceless publishing of opinions and rumors, pseudonyms, and our own anonymous contributions to this on Sylvia’s forum in the name of “imo”.

One will also notice she is not represented in those places one may search for her like classmates, Wagner, HS, websites, too.

I have been thinking about how this might go, if I was the person who was missing-would my high school or college grapevines have that information? Hard to tell-my situation is different than Sylvia's, because I only attended the high school I graduated from for 1 1/2 years. So maybe not. On the other hand, I am married to my college boyfriend, and am still in touch with some college friends (mostly his friends, lol), so my college experience is different than hers, too. We have discussed earlier on how the experience of a day student differs from that of a boarding student-you do make friends, but it's different. And while it is easy now to stay connected to people that you may only have a rather casual relationship with, that wasn't true in 1975. People didn't spend a lot of time on the phone with others-too expensive. No car? Your only option was public transportation, if there was any-and, of course, no internet. I wonder what it was like for the students who commuted? Was it common to get together? I guess that would depend on how outgoing you might be. Some pretty girls have a harder time making friends with other girls than they do with guys-I wonder if this was true for Sylvia?

 

[rosemadderlake]

BBM: But what is the truth exactly? On the one hand, if she had said "fiance" or named the BF/F, a "truth" could be implied that really only amounts to catering to innuendo. On the other hand, I agree that "acquaintance" was inaccurate -- and even misleading -- but I don't think saying "fiance" or naming the BF/F would have been responsible either. There is no "truth" here that's actually been established. I would have been happy with "friend" myself as it would have implied SL was with someone she at least knew.

Having worked as a reporter for about a decade, I know firsthand that people are always pushing their ideas of what "truth" is on them. It becomes instinctual to back away from that and dig deeper. Since no crime has been officially established, and nothing we know incriminates the BF/F other than having allegedly been the last to have seen her at an emotional moment, how ethical would it have been on the reporter's part to perpetuate that innuendo? Refusing to do that is exactly why people can "expect news outlets to expose the truth," IMO.

Bbm: Exactly. Well said. And, it is what sets high and low standards in journalism. If I want the truth on a story, there are only a handful of newspapers / pubs journalists I trust.

I do remember thinking when I first read the SI article that maybe this meant that the BFF was not the last to see her? So, it took a while for me to draw my own conclusion. It seems that the word acquaintance was definitely purposeful but swapped out - Also confusing is how would her friend know she had a fight with an acquaintance? It made it seem like she was there to witness it.

 

[Jmoose]

I just think she should have said SL was last seen with her fiance, and that he stated that she ran out of the car after an argument. That is the truth, and is backed up by the initial police report. I realize that I am more eager to see pressure put on him than some are, and I would have been thrilled if they'd mentioned him by name, but even if they hadn't, I would have understood. I do think the pressure needs to be applied legally and morally, and I am not in favor of 'accusing' him in the media. But, IMO, to say an acquaintance was not the truth.

Also, I think the fact that the article mentions that she was engaged, and then says she went to the movies with an 'acquaintance' (as opposed to friend, family member, etc) could lead people to think she was seeing someone else.

You've made a very good point, as it does look like she might have been engaged, but out with another man; to me, this way of writing the article practically screamed "we have to be very careful here". You and I feel the same way about BF/F, but there is a good reason to be careful in the writing of the article.

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I have been thinking about how this might go, if I was the person who was missing-would my high school or college grapevines have that information? Hard to tell-my situation is different than Sylvia's, because I only attended the high school I graduated from for 1 1/2 years. So maybe not. On the other hand, I am married to my college boyfriend, and am still in touch with some college friends (mostly his friends, lol), so my college experience is different than hers, too. We have discussed earlier on how the experience of a day student differs from that of a boarding student-you do make friends, but it's different. And while it is easy now to stay connected to people that you may only have a rather casual relationship with, that wasn't true in 1975. People didn't spend a lot of time on the phone with others-too expensive. No car? Your only option was public transportation, if there was any-and, of course, no internet. I wonder what it was like for the students who commuted? Was it common to get together? I guess that would depend on how outgoing you might be. Some pretty girls have a harder time making friends with other girls than they do with guys-I wonder if this was true for Sylvia?

LMAO over your reason for editing :hilarious:

You make lots of good points re how hard it used to be to stay in touch.

BBMs: I grew up shy, my daughter is shy, my father was shy .... there are a number of places throughout the thread where our VIs and the G (tho I'm unsure whose knowledge he represents) say she was quiet or shy. There's even one where the G described both SL AND her BF/F that way. I believe this to be true of SL. And think it has a lot to do with how little we know.

 

[Jmoose]

LMAO over your reason for editing :hilarious:

You make lots of good points re how hard it used to be to stay in touch.

BBMs: I grew up shy, my daughter is shy, my father was shy .... there are a number of places throughout the thread where our VIs and the G (tho I'm unsure whose knowledge he represents) say she was quiet or shy. There's even one where the G described both SL AND her BF/F that way. I believe this to be true of SL. And think it has a lot to do with how little we know.

Heh, heh, heh-I just like to see who's paying attention! You always are, GBMG!

 

[rosemadderlake]

I have been thinking about how this might go, if I was the person who was missing-would my high school or college grapevines have that information? Hard to tell-my situation is different than Sylvia's, because I only attended the high school I graduated from for 1 1/2 years. So maybe not. On the other hand, I am married to my college boyfriend, and am still in touch with some college friends (mostly his friends, lol), so my college experience is different than hers, too. We have discussed earlier on how the experience of a day student differs from that of a boarding student-you do make friends, but it's different. And while it is easy now to stay connected to people that you may only have a rather casual relationship with, that wasn't true in 1975. People didn't spend a lot of time on the phone with others-too expensive. No car? Your only option was public transportation, if there was any-and, of course, no internet. I wonder what it was like for the students who commuted? Was it common to get together? I guess that would depend on how outgoing you might be. Some pretty girls have a harder time making friends with other girls than they do with guys-I wonder if this was true for Sylvia?

All good points, Jmoose. We do know she had a party with a bunch of Wagner alumni sorority & band schoolmates. This modern tool of social media is almost a guaranteed way of getting the word out. I have friends who absolutely love connecting with people they haven't seen in decades all for finding them on classmates or Facebook. But I am not sure the imperative to do so would exist with the pony express or pigeon post of yesteryear. I think all school reunions have become much bigger events because of modern technology. Because there has been no publicity on Sylvia's disappearance, what do her classmates, those who knew her conclude when they see nothing on her in the places they might look to find her? I would not necessarily think to visit a MP website, next... IOW searches may be contained within social media sites and not necessarily Googled first.

How would Wagner Alumni especially handle a simple "Sylvia Lwowski has been a missing person for 39 years"?

 

[rosemadderlake]

I have been thinking about how this might go, if I was the person who was missing-would my high school or college grapevines have that information? Hard to tell-my situation is different than Sylvia's, because I only attended the high school I graduated from for 1 1/2 years. So maybe not. On the other hand, I am married to my college boyfriend, and am still in touch with some college friends (mostly his friends, lol), so my college experience is different than hers, too. We have discussed earlier on how the experience of a day student differs from that of a boarding student-you do make friends, but it's different. And while it is easy now to stay connected to people that you may only have a rather casual relationship with, that wasn't true in 1975. People didn't spend a lot of time on the phone with others-too expensive. No car? Your only option was public transportation, if there was any-and, of course, no internet. I wonder what it was like for the students who commuted? Was it common to get together? I guess that would depend on how outgoing you might be. Some pretty girls have a harder time making friends with other girls than they do with guys-I wonder if this was true for Sylvia?

Jmoose I am responding to your post twice because Bbm: I think Sylvia may have been connected to friends over the summer of 1975 because of the pool party. And, Staten Island is small enough geographically where you are a short bus ride, bike ride or walk to many hubs. With the musical and sorority groups, boyfriends, and engagement, Sylvia may have been perceived as shy - but I have my doubts. She seems disciplined, directed, and focused - a beautiful bookworm. When I see all that she had going for her at college, and then to hear she had no wedding or future plans after graduation, and then depressed on the PR, it sounds like her life came to a grinding halt.

 

[rosemadderlake]

I just think she should have said SL was last seen with her fiance, and that he stated that she ran out of the car after an argument. That is the truth, and is backed up by the initial police report. I realize that I am more eager to see pressure put on him than some are, and I would have been thrilled if they'd mentioned him by name, but even if they hadn't, I would have understood. I do think the pressure needs to be applied legally and morally, and I am not in favor of 'accusing' him in the media. But, IMO, to say an acquaintance was not the truth.

Also, I think the fact that the article mentions that she was engaged, and then says she went to the movies with an 'acquaintance' (as opposed to friend, family member, etc) could lead people to think she was seeing someone else.

Bbm: The police report only states “fight with boyfriend” and then in the notes; “person described as engaged and fight with fiancé.” Police report also states time last seen was 9/6/75 18:00 (6pm). The PR report does not state she was last seen with fiancé or that she ran out of a car after an argument. And the person who actually filed the report is not alive. So I think the reporter played it safe.

 

[Jmoose]

All good points, Jmoose. We do know she had a party with a bunch of Wagner alumni sorority & band schoolmates. This modern tool of social media is almost a guaranteed way of getting the word out. I have friends who absolutely love connecting with people they haven't seen in decades all for finding them on classmates or Facebook. But I am not sure the imperative to do so would exist with the pony express or pigeon post of yesteryear. I think all school reunions have become much bigger events because of modern technology. Because there has been no publicity on Sylvia's disappearance, what do her classmates, those who knew her conclude when they see nothing on her in the places they might look to find her? I would not necessarily think to visit a MP website, next... IOW searches may be contained within social media sites and not necessarily Googled first.

How would Wagner Alumni especially handle a simple "Sylvia Lwowski has been a missing person for 39 years"?

How bizarre would it be if you found out now, that a classmate of yours disappeared 39 years ago, and you never knew? I would be fascinated, incredulous and appalled to find out after all of this time! I keep wondering how well she knew these students who came to her party. I can't remember if we knew how many students came. She obviously knew them all, from her various activities-but I wonder if they'd be people that she'd be in touch with regularly. I can't imagine that nobody knew about her disappearance-esp. since Eva Lwowski and MMQC went to her sorority. Does anyone think there is any possibility that, in keeping with "no publicity", that they downplayed Sylvia's disappearance by not telling the full story? That it looked like they weren't as worried as they must have been, and that they weren't told at the sorority that she never came home from a date with her fiance? Seems unlikely that they would handle it in that way, but could it be?