NY NY - Sylvia Lwowski, 22, Staten Island, 6 Sept 1975 - #4

[rosemadderlake]

I just finished reading an article from a Pittsburgh newspaper that talked about the difficulty in getting an investigation going when an adult is missing; one of the things that was said to be important was constant pressure from the family of the missing person; like daily phone calls, for example. This is one of the things that we all seem to think did not happen. There can be at least a few reasons for this-for me, one reason could be the attitude of the police. We know that Sylvia's parents did report her missing as soon as the police would take a report. What we don't know is how the police handled the meeting with the Lwowskis, and we don't know if the Lwowskis were "in your face", persistent type people. Were the Lwowskis told not to bother them with phone calls ("don't call us, we'll call you")? Did the Lwowskis suspect that Sylvia was a likely runaway or suicide? These are things we will never know.

Bbm: You know, if there was "trouble in paradise" with this couple, I think that could have swayed the Lwowskis' and would explain the outrage, too. --And the silence?

I absolutely hate to bring this up BUT - Class and heritage would have been very important - lineage, ancestry, historical importance, etc. (Oh I say this because of my own experience with the beloved Italians)

Sylvia was Marrying "up" by all accounts. ... Heritage, College, etc.,

What if she said F*** it?

What if she said I can't do this anymore?

What if her B/FF said F*** You?

What if she?...

What if he?...

What if they?

What if?

What if the police got nothing to go on???

 

[Jmoose]

Bbm: You know, if there was "trouble in paradise" with this couple, I think that could have swayed the Lwowskis' and would explain the outrage, too. --And the silence?

I absolutely hate to bring this up BUT - Class and heritage would have been very important - lineage, ancestry, historical importance, etc. (Oh I say this because of my own experience with the beloved Italians)

Sylvia was Marrying "up" by all accounts. ... Heritage, College, etc.,

What if she said F*** it?

What if she said I can't do this anymore?

What if her B/FF said F*** You?

What if she?...

What if he?...

What if they?

What if?

What if the police got nothing to go on???

Exactly my point! But was there nothing to go on because there really wasn't anything, or because they didn't look too hard? (I will assume that the police searched BF/F's car and collected Sylvia's glasses). But I am also assuming that the Lwowskis, for whatever reason, did not keep their foot on the gas here, so that the police knew they had to do something. This could have had any origin-maybe they were timid, maybe they thought they knew what happened to her and it wasn't murder at the hands of her fiance, maybe they thought the police gave it a low priority because they weren't "important" people. The police can't get away with that now, but then they could because of the lack of social media. Do I think Sylvia was marrying "up"? Not necessarily, but BF/F's family might have thought she was. And...maybe his family had contacts that hers did not-but that still doesn't explain the lack of concern from everyone else Sylvia and her family knew. So what is the reason?

 

[rosemadderlake]

Jmoose - the Q I keep coming back to is WHY "No Publicity"? WHY no "Pub" after, 30 days, 6 mo's, 1year, 10, years, etc...

WHY? Why" Why?

 

[Jmoose]

I know-me, too. What don't we know here? Why didn't her family move mountains?

 

[rosemadderlake]

It makes me so sad - Sylvia was a daughter, a sister, a friend, a lover, a fiance, a student, a musician, a sorority sister, a neighbor, an acquaintance?

Where are her peeps?

 

[Skigirl]

Maybe they broke up? Maybe he was held accountable at the time for something he knew nothing about? We do not know.... I have not heard about the state of their relationship other than the "she had everything to live for and they had a fight"

One thing stands out - BF/F didn't run, lived on SI and went to school in NYC. And for years has lived with his family close by...

Sorry, but that does not jibe with the dead beats we read about in connection with the missing.

I could be WAY wrong - I'd be the first one to say I didn't read it , know it, E.S.P. it... But I don't think so.

Bring on Sylvia's admirers, her sorority, her marching band, her aquamarine biology, her neighborhood, her peeps, her unrequited loves from the past - red?, her mental state...

We need more and I know it is out there - so why won't her peeps come forward? Fear? Guilt? Remorse?

Hoping the more we keep posting, and keep Sylvia on the radar - someone will eventually chime in...
.

There is more than a simple fight... there's the fact that she supposedly exited his car and was never seen again. That, to me, seems very suspicious.

 

[Jmoose]

Yes, it does seem like the police took the fiance's word for that, doesn't it? We just don't know for sure if they questioned him as the last person to see Sylvia; I can't imagine that they wouldn't try to talk to him, so they must have. He did stay very close to where this happened for all these years-seems to be no reason why he shouldn't. And yet...I do wonder why he was so rude to both Eva Lwowski and Sylvia's friend-their loss was at least as great as his, and he could have been more sensitive, but told them both to stop calling him. I wish Sylvia's brother was more forthcoming, although maybe he just doesn't have the information that his parents likely had.

 

[rosemadderlake]

Either the BF/F knows what happened to Sylvia, or he doesn't know, or he knows they broke up that night and he didn't want to reveal that piece? Either way it looks bad. This is why I speculate that the BF/F sought legal counsel in 1975. Didn't LE say stop the calls or face harassment suit?

 

[Jmoose]

I don't know if LE told Eva or Mary not to call him, but I believe they did tell Sylvia's brother not to do it-and I am not sure if that was because he had already contacted the fiance. Without all of the information regarding the investigation in 1975, it appears that the fiance was always off limits. But it's really impossible to know. I suppose that there could have been a ton of phone calls to his house when Sylvia disappeared, and again when her brother decided to pick it up. My gut tells me that LE couldn't force him to answer any questions at any time in the last 40 years, and he had a lawyer to make sure he stayed completely out of it (a smart thing to do, guilty or innocent)

 

[rosemadderlake]

These are the unknowables - EL believed Sylvia's GF knew where she was. Was there ever a good feeling about the BF/F before Sylvia went missing? And there was the "no publicity". Now, just because LE was not actively trying to figure out what happened, I imagine her family was understandably desperate. What if the BF/F really didn't know? I am of a mind to think that if he did know what happened and was covering up, we'd be hearing a different tune - maybe a story, maybe a made up story, maybe an opinion on some kind of instability in Sylvia alluding to suicide, etc... Some kind of discrediting of Sylvia to shine the light elsewhere... What would a killer do? What would a "have no idea but looks bad as if one could be the killer" do?

And, with all due respect a telephone call six months or so after she went missing (and you are the prime suspect in certain people's eyes) may or may not have been about Sylvia's dog - It is not a stretch to see this as a reminder call; "we have not forgotten and you are on the radar" message - which is understandable too - but if it is met with "don't call me", is that such a surprise?

ETA: As I think about it, the interactions after Sylvia goes missing is quite telling of perhaps where the instability really was - in her relationship with her fiance regardless of what happened. When a family has an adored future son-in-law, wouldn't the interactions be different?

Someday -a missing piece will come to light - might take a generation though for it to happen, imo...

 

[Jmoose]

You know, I asked Sylvia's brother if the family liked Sylvia's fiance before she disappeared, and he didn't answer me-I really wanted to know what the relationship was like between all of them. This kind of thing really irritates me about this case; absolutely everything is a big secret. And...why hasn't Sylvia been legally declared dead yet? Surely there is no impediment to doing so, since she's been gone for 41 years. Maybe this is immaterial, but I wonder why this hasn't happened, since it had to be an issue with the settling of Eva and Joseph Lwowski's estate. Could there be a good reason why this hasn't been done?

 

[rosemadderlake]

You know, I asked Sylvia's brother if the family liked Sylvia's fiance before she disappeared, and he didn't answer me-I really wanted to know what the relationship was like between all of them. This kind of thing really irritates me about this case; absolutely everything is a big secret. And...why hasn't Sylvia been legally declared dead yet? Surely there is no impediment to doing so, since she's been gone for 41 years. Maybe this is immaterial, but I wonder why this hasn't happened, since it had to be an issue with the settling of Eva and Joseph Lwowski's estate. Could there be a good reason why this hasn't been done?

Bbm: Maybe the estate was reconfigured with her brother in mind - carrying on in the unsolved mystery after they passed? That is easy to do. Declaring her dead - not so easy, psychologically, and really indicates they have no idea what happened to her - when in doubt leave the door open. imo...

And yes, Everything is a secret - how in the heck are we to find the truth?

ETA: Maybe assuming too much - not sure how an estate is handled in an unresolved missing persons case - especially if not declared dead. Sylvia certainly meets the criteria. Are we sure she hasn't been declared dead?

Declared death in absentia

United States
The law calls people who disappear missing or absent. Several criteria affect declaring someone dead by assumption:
• A person's being missing from their home or usual residence for, typically, seven years (the period varies from state to state)
• Such absences being continuous and without explanation
• Such absences being accompanied by a lack of long-distance communication with those most likely to hear from them
• Diligent but unsuccessful search for that person and inquiry into their whereabouts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declared_death_in_absentia

 

[Jmoose]

Not absolutely certain that she hasn't been declared dead, but her name isn't in the Social Security Death Index. Her brother does not think she is alive, and being missing for 41 years has to surpass the minimum for any state. I don't know if it matters at all as far as her cold case might go-but it interests me because, while Eva always thought she was alive somewhere, her brother didn't after he went to dinner at Mary's and she told him she never saw Sylvia after that day in 1975. I absolutely believe that Mary never saw her again after her shopping date in Sept 1975. Do I think everyone's been honest and forthcoming about stuff they don't believe is relevant? Hell, no-there's lots of relevant info that hasn't seen the light of day

 

[rosemadderlake]

Yes - wish there was more straight-line transparency for Sylvia, too. Wish there was a push for an age progression. Wonder why some very cold cases (missing without a body) get the case reopened, ongoing press, attention, reward for information, age progression, and others do not... Is it because relevant information hasn't seen the light of day? And NYPD knows it?

Seems there was a huge push to shine a light on the BF/F and then more silence... So, why is that? Is there another piece that is known but cannot be proved?

If I were to time travel back to 1975 - I wonder what the rumors were, then? Because there were quite a few people in Sylvia's circle at the time she went missing.

 

[Jmoose]

My dream is that, someday, someone who knew Sylvia as an adult joins us here and helps fill in some of the many blanks. Her brother has a particular perspective that is based partly on what he knows about his sister and her relationship to both her family and her fiance-but this perspective is not likely to be objective. I'd like to see a close friend from college, who knew her well. I'd really like it if her fiance joined us here, but I know that'll never happen. This is wishful thinking, since I am certain that anyone who gave a thought to her in all of this time, has googled her name and opted not to add anything to the mystery. It is so sad to imagine that nobody seemed to care enough to push for an answer, or at least some information. Her mother thought she knew that Sylvia ran off and Mary was in on it-Mary did not know where she was after all. Incredibly hard to imagine that no hint existed. And why not let all of the available family information come out? What's the harm now? If she had suicidal tendencies, then that's probably how the end went; if she was careless and impetuous by nature, she probably came to grief by accident-and if her family disliked her fiance for a good reason, well...maybe there's an answer there.

 

[rosemadderlake]

^^^ Well said, Jmoose ^^^

Totally agree with all of it - the woman was loved, smart, and beautiful - hard to forget. And like you say - "Incredibly hard to imagine that no hint existed."

 

[GoingByMyGut]

I see you are keeping the flame burning, my Webseluths friends I hope you're all doing well. I am on a crazy treadmill, still dealing with my parents, their house, my house, work, and my "sideline" career as a novelist. Time is so precious ... but I couldn't help thinking of Sylvia, my grandfather, and all of you when I saw this New York Times article this weekend. The newspaper's advocacy has made it possible for many descendants of the unclaimed dead buried on Hart Island to locate and honor their ancestors, but only back as far as 1980. It appears, from the stories, that to be locate-able, a person would have to have been identified at death, in addition to being unclaimed, but I am not positive about that. I don't see any hope for the UID that would have been my grandfather in 1929, and I doubt it would be possible to locate Sylvia here either (assuming she died close to the time of her disappearance), but I know you'll still be interested in how the problems around Hart Island have moved forward. I will check back in as soon as I can.
:seeya:
http://nyti.ms/1ZY7ZL9

 

[Jmoose]

So happy to see you here, GBMG!!!

 

[Jmoose]

I see you are keeping the flame burning, my Webseluths friends I hope you're all doing well. I am on a crazy treadmill, still dealing with my parents, their house, my house, work, and my "sideline" career as a novelist. Time is so precious ... but I couldn't help thinking of Sylvia, my grandfather, and all of you when I saw this New York Times article this weekend. The newspaper's advocacy has made it possible for many descendants of the unclaimed dead buried on Hart Island to locate and honor their ancestors, but only back as far as 1980. It appears, from the stories, that to be locate-able, a person would have to have been identified at death, in addition to being unclaimed, but I am not positive about that. I don't see any hope for the UID that would have been my grandfather in 1929, and I doubt it would be possible to locate Sylvia here either (assuming she died close to the time of her disappearance), but I know you'll still be interested in how the problems around Hart Island have moved forward. I will check back in as soon as I can.
:seeya:
http://nyti.ms/1ZY7ZL9

About a year or so ago, I mentioned something like this to Sylvia's brother-I think there is a possibility that Sylvia could be there somewhere, unidentified. I think it's possible that she could have been found someplace other than Staten Island, and somehow escaped being matched with a missing woman whose family didn't want publicity. But we will never know for sure, unless she or her remains surface someplace else

 

[GoingByMyGut]

About a year or so ago, I mentioned something like this to Sylvia's brother-I think there is a possibility that Sylvia could be there somewhere, unidentified. I think it's possible that she could have been found someplace other than Staten Island, and somehow escaped being matched with a missing woman whose family didn't want publicity. But we will never know for sure, unless she or her remains surface someplace else

BBM: Yes, I remember us all talking about that a lot -- and the queries involving matches to known UIDs, which I think Rose was sending to someone on the case. Personally, I think the best bet for discovery of her unidentified remains is Staten Island -- either because she never left or was stopped in the process of leaving in Sept. 1975, but it's an opinion and it would be dumb of me to hang a lot on that. You're right, she could be anywhere, and the time window of her possible death could be 1975 to the present.

The problem with Hart Island is that the number of UIDs, going back 150 years, is staggering. I suppose I can envision them doing something like they did with 9-11, creating DNA records from what little remains they can find, even with very early remains. That way at least, one day a relative could find a match. But who would fund that? Not likely, IMO.