GUILTY NY - Vincent Viafore, 46, Newburgh, 19 April 2015 - #1

[JerseyGirl]

I wonder if his life vest really was home? She said he didn't have a life vest on. I can't imagine him going into deep water, with motor boats around and all, without a life vest.

 

[Dushi]

It is really hard to see how this played out with the charge being "2nd degree murder" which I believe means that it is not premeditated or planned in advance. That seems to eliminate canoe tampering or life jacket tampering in advance of the pair heading out on the water. Drugging also would seem to be pre-meditated. Maybe he was drunk? If he was under the influence he may have neglected to wear a vest...And she took advantage of his incapacitation and did not help him when he capsized/actively aided capsizing and drowning. Sad however it happened.

You have brought up a good point about the charges

 

[Dushi]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2015/04/20/crews-searching-for-missing-kayaker-in-hudson-river/Wes " ____knows the couple well and said he saw them on Sunday out on the water. It wasn’t until later that night that he heard a search was underway."

This doesn't say when the witness saw them on the river. Obviously they were there at some point during the day as she ended up on the river and had to be "rescued." This still could mean that something happened on that island.

??

JMO.

Its quite possible that whatever started all of this, started before they were on the river.
But, I am thinking about eucalyptuz' post now.
?
Second degree murder

Could they change the charges if they find his body?

 

[Inthedetails]

Info about the island, if interested:
http://www.bannermancastle.org/island-history.html

 

[JerseyGirl]

Under New York criminal law, murder in the second degree is one of several forms of homicide, or conduct which causes the death of a person. Other forms of homicide include first-degree murder, manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, and abortion.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-second-degree-murder-laws.html

a person commits second-degree murder in one of five ways: (1) with the intent to cause the death of another person, he or she causes the death of such person or a third person; (2) under circumstances demonstrating a "depraved indifference to human life," the defendant "recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby causes the death of another person"; (3) acting alone or in concert with others, the defendant commits or attempts to commit a specified felony (including robbery, burglary, kidnapping, arson, rape, and sexual abuse) and, in the course of and in furtherance of such crime or of immediate flight therefrom, he or she causes the death of a non-participant; (4) under circumstances demonstrating a "depraved indifference to human life," a defendant 18 years old or more "recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of serious physical injury or death" to a person less than 11 years old and causes the death of such person; or (5) while in the course of committing a specified crime such as rape, a criminal sexual act or sexual abuse, a defendant 18 years old or more intentionally causes the death of a person less than 14 years old.

 

[Dushi]

Under New York criminal law, murder in the second degree is one of several forms of homicide, or conduct which causes the death of a person. Other forms of homicide include first-degree murder, manslaughter, criminally negligent homicide, and abortion.

http://statelaws.findlaw.com/new-york-law/new-york-second-degree-murder-laws.html

TY
Where does premeditated come in.. or does it

 

[LietKynes]

New York Times tweet:
Murder Charge for Woman Who Said Fiancé’s Kayak Capsized in Hudson River http://nyti.ms/1DFnn23

From linked story:
[...]
..... Mr. Viafore, who held a well-paying job as a project manager, had been supporting her since she quit her job as a bartender

The Orange County district attorney, David M. Hoovler, would not say whether there was a life insurance policy, a will or estate, that was set to go to Ms. Graswald after Mr. Viafore’s death.

SABBM
Snipped for brevity

Well it would be prudent to check whether this perp has reason to expect a payout of some sort.
So, he was supporting HER ? And this is how she (allegedly) responded ?
Plain evil.
The story of wanting 'threesomes' may be a concoction of hers, and even if true---there's no law against it. She could have just walked away !!! :maddening:

Another thing... she seems like a small person---wonder if she had any 'help' ?
And if someone is incapacitated in a kayak and they're pushed over --- do they just fall out into the water ? I thought your legs kind of held you in, so that if able, you could 'right' yourself by flipping around ?
Sorry , don't have any kayaking knowledge. :blushing:

:moo:

 

[Inthedetails]

SABBM
Snipped for brevity

Well it would be prudent to check whether this perp has reason to expect a payout of some sort.
So, he was supporting HER ? And this is how she (allegedly) responded ?
Plain evil.
The story of wanting 'threesomes' may be a concoction of hers, and even if true---there's no law against it. She could have just walked away !!! :maddening:

Another thing... she seems like a small person---wonder if she had any 'help' ?
And if someone is incapacitated in a kayak and they're pushed over --- do they just fall out into the water ? I thought your legs kind of held you in, so that if able, you could 'right' yourself by flipping around ?
Sorry , don't have any kayaking knowledge. :blushing:

:moo:

She's small and he's a big guy who is comfortable with water sports. I just don't see him not being able to paddle in the waves when she managed it.

But she SAID something to the cops that seemed to instantly implicate her. Whatever she said was enough for them to arrest her for murder without finding the body first. That's a big blunder on her part. What could she have said??

JMO

 

[eucalyptuz]

Does anybody please have a MSM link about the alleged diary with mentions of rough sex/threesomes? The one linked to above is behind a pay wall.

Thinking more about that rumored diary and whether this was more a crime of opportunity than a premeditated murder. April 19 was a Sunday. Perhaps there had been a BBQ/gathering of friends with drinks and VV (and AG?) might have been a bit drunk. Crazy spontaneous idea to head out in kayaks for a dusk paddle - dutch courage leading to VV not putting on a lifejacket. She's harboring dark thoughts about him (and his fetishes) and when he capsizes and is floundering in deep, cold water she doesn't help. Yes, it's murder...but not premeditated murder. And maybe it seems she's happy he's gone because it really is hard to explain her online behaviour...

 

[JerseyGirl]

Speaking exclusively from the Orange County Jail, the Eastern European divorcee insisted that the accusations against her were baseless. In the woman's personal journal, Graswald allegedly detailed how her fiance, who was 11 years her senior, enjoyed rough sex and was pressuring her into having threesomes. She confided to her diary that her fiance's eccentric sexual proclivities at times made her wish he was dead.

But Graswald pointed out Thursday that she and Viafore were very much in love, and that her harsh words about the man were written during low points in their relationship.

Graswald said from jail that she had been unconscious for much of the time the night of the kayak accident.

When asked about her light-hearted social media posts since Viafore's tragic disappearance, Graswald said from jail that it was just her way of grieving.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-dead-wanted-threesomes.html#ixzz3YutK76vR

 

[Inthedetails]

Snipped:

Graswald said from jail that she had been unconscious for much of the time the night of the kayak accident.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...and-dead-wanted-threesomes.html#ixzz3YutK76vR

She was?

 

[Inthedetails]

SABBM
Snipped for brevity

Well it would be prudent to check whether this perp has reason to expect a payout of some sort.
So, he was supporting HER ? And this is how she (allegedly) responded ?
Plain evil.
The story of wanting 'threesomes' may be a concoction of hers, and even if true---there's no law against it. She could have just walked away !!! :maddening:

Another thing... she seems like a small person---wonder if she had any 'help' ?
And if someone is incapacitated in a kayak and they're pushed over --- do they just fall out into the water ? I thought your legs kind of held you in, so that if able, you could 'right' yourself by flipping around ?
Sorry , don't have any kayaking knowledge. :blushing:

:moo:

BBM

I've been kayaking but wasn't trained on what to do if capsized (dumb youth!), but I do think you're right in that a person has to deliberately free himself from the kayak if it overturns. In that case, how did they find his kayak but not him? Did he struggle to right himself or to free himself and she prevented him? Or, she kayaked away from him and let him be overcome by the river? I would imagine he knew what to do if capsized.

Perhaps experienced kayakers can chime in.

 

[wfgodot]

We'll see what the grand jury says.

 

[Inthedetails]

My speculation about something happening on the island is out...


"'We believe we know what happened ... we believe she indicated how this occurred,' Regan added, though he stopped short of saying Graswald had confessed. Police said they believe Viafore was killed 'on the river,' not land."

http://www.lohud.com/story/news/cri...oughkeepsie-kayakers-fiancee-murder/26660027/

 

[wfgodot]

Lengthy, readable Washington Post article:

That was no kayak accident say police. It was murder.

 

[BunnyHop]

This is rather local to me, so I have been watching this case.
FWIW, I am a kayaker and have paddled Bannerman's Island in the summer.


It is WAY too early in the season to be out there. No way anyone would be out there when it's that cold without the proper gear. JMHO. It's even too early for most motor boats.

From the pics I saw, they are using small recreational kayaks. Hers looks even smaller than his. When I went, my friend brought 2 sea kayaks.

That stretch of the Hudson is narrow, so the currents are very strong.

I noticed on her FB page, prior to the "accident" I didn't see pictures of him, just her cat (but I could be wrong)

Also, one of the first things you learn is what happens if you tip over. Basically, you just fall out.

 

[SStarr33]

Are there two life jackets on her kayak?

https://instagram.com/p/pFauywqIh1/

 

[SStarr33]

This shows how choppy that water is:

https://instagram.com/p/pZbuHIKIs2/

 

[SStarr33]

This is her:

http://www.photosight.com/ownpage.php?authorID=2609

 

[wfgodot]

I've got to feel like they have more goods than an interview with a possibly grieving ESL speaker; her social media presence, as problematical as that may seem; and the conjecture the victim was a strong swimmer and thus would have, what, been able to dog-paddle to Poughkeepsie? Like physical, this-here-kayak-been tampered-with, -type stuff -- they have that, right? ya think? Work with me here.