NYC - 'Numerous' fatalities in train collision, fire

[wendybtn]

Nothing at all suggests suicide.

I never expected that lady named Jennifer in the summer/fall of 2014 from Washington or Oregon to have committed suicide either. But she did.

 

[panthera]

i can understand his comment about the general area - hmm, a commuter RR line seems unlikely in this rural-ish setting.
But as to Mrs. Brody's actions that night, specifically there,bells, flashing lights, and gate arms = RR crossing, no mystery.
NTSB stated all the safety features were fully operational, as linked in my earlier posts.

Nevertheless, sad, sad, sad.

After seeing the aerial photograph of the crossing, along with the information regarding traffic being backed up, I am getting a much clearer picture in my mind of what may have occurred - namely that she was either unaware of the R/R crossing before the gate came down on her vehicle and she was stopped in front of the white line (that one must be behind) at the crossing.

Now my main question is: is there any forewarning (such as a flashing sign) on Commerce Street that there is a R/R crossing ahead, aside from the flashing red lights when a train is actually approaching? In other words, could she, being on a dark street and somewhat unfamiliar with the area, being backed up in traffic, not have realized she was sitting underneath the R/R crossing arm until it was too late?



MOO

 

[jjenny]

After seeing the aerial photograph of the crossing, along with the information regarding traffic being backed up, I am getting a much clearer picture in my mind of what may have occurred - namely that she was either unaware of the R/R crossing before the gate came down on her vehicle and she was stopped in front of the white line (that one must be behind) at the crossing.

Now my main question is: is there any forewarning (such as a flashing sign) on Commerce Street that there is a R/R crossing ahead, aside from the flashing red lights when a train is actually approaching? In other words, could she, being on a dark street and somewhat unfamiliar with the area, being backed up in traffic, not have realized she was sitting underneath the R/R crossing arm until it was too late?



MOO

She got out of the car and tried to jiggle the R/R crossing arm. So how could she possibly not realize she was sitting under it? She then got back in the car. At time, train was extremely close and was honking its horn. So she had to have known it was coming. However, she proceeded forward, and train hit the car.

 

[jjenny]

I never expected that lady named Jennifer in the summer/fall of 2014 from Washington or Oregon to have committed suicide either. But she did.

I don't know about Jennifer's case, but this one was rather clearly an accident. Her car got hit by the crossing arm, she got out, she tried to jiggle the arm, she got back in, she moved the car onto the tracks, the train hit it. She was possibly confused, or concerned about damage to the car from the arm and not thinking straight, but it doesn't at all look like suicide.

 

[al66pine]

First I thought that she was trying to beat the train, zig-zagging around gate-arms.
Then I read about accident on the Parkway which diverted traffic to Commerce St.; a driver telling MSM about traffic slow down.

Now thinking differently:
- traffic was bumper to bumper, backed up, barely moving,
- at moment her SUV crawled close to tracks, safety features had not yet started alerting.
No lights, no bells before she was on tracks, then bells & lights and soon gate-arm came down.
As someone else said, then her SUV was more or less boxed in.
It w/h/bn penned in by cars in front & back of her. Once driver behind her backed up, gate arm w/not/h/prevented her from backing up,
(although maybe she thought it would).
Maybe from early on others here have thought the same.

Still not sure how a driver does not realize she's stopped SUV on RR tracks.
I thought it was common knowledge not to stop on RR tracks ever, with or without safety features alerting.
In 30+ yrs of driving, I've never done it (not that I cross RR tracks daily). Maybe it's just me and the rest of the belt-and-suspenders crowd.
JM2cts.

Sad, sad, sad.

 

[panthera]

She got out of the car and tried to jiggle the R/R crossing arm. So how could she possibly not realize she was sitting under it? She then got back in the car. At time, train was extremely close and was honking its horn. So she had to have known it was coming. However, she proceeded forward, and train hit the car.

Perhaps I should have worded my question differently. What I meant was before actually getting stuck where she was with the crossing arm over her vehicle, could she maybe not have realized there was a R/R crossing ahead? Where I live there are yellow signs ahead of the actual crossing warning motorists that they are approaching a R/R crossing. Some are lit at night to make sure they are visible. I was curious if such an advanced warning that motorists were approaching tracks was on Commerce Street. If not, perhaps she did not realize she was so close to the tracks until the red lights came on, alarm bells sounded, and gate arm came down on her vehicle.

If only she had just backed up as much as possible instead of driving forward....

MOO

 

[jjenny]

Perhaps I should have worded my question differently. What I meant was before actually getting stuck where she was with the crossing arm over her vehicle, could she maybe not have realized there was a R/R crossing ahead? Where I live there are yellow signs ahead of the actual crossing warning motorists that they are approaching a R/R crossing. Some are lit at night to make sure they are visible. I was curious if such an advanced warning that motorists were approaching tracks was on Commerce Street. If not, perhaps she did not realize she was so close to the tracks until the red lights came on, alarm bells sounded, and gate arm came down on her vehicle.

If only she had just backed up as much as possible instead of driving forward....

MOO

This crossing has two sets of flashing lights. They were going to install a third set of lights but that has not been done.

"The railroad crossing had undergone a number of upgrades in recent years to reduce the risk of accidents, including the installation of brighter LED lights, “Do Not Stop on the Tracks” signs and new traffic signal control equipment."


http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2015/02/10/357030.htm

 

[panthera]

This crossing has two sets of flashing lights. They were going to install a third set of lights but that has not been done.

"The railroad crossing had undergone a number of upgrades in recent years to reduce the risk of accidents, including the installation of brighter LED lights, “Do Not Stop on the Tracks” signs and new traffic signal control equipment."


http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/east/2015/02/10/357030.htm

Also from your link:

But a 2009 plan to install a third set of flashing lights 100 to 200 feet up the road to give motorists a few seconds’ extra warning was never carried out, for reasons officials were unable to explain.
Asked whether the extra lights could have prevented the tragedy, state Department of Transportation spokesman Beau Duffy said: “It’s way too early to be guessing about what could have or couldn’t have made a difference.”



This is what I was referring to with additional warning. Sadly we'll never know if it would've made a difference, however.

MOO

 

[al66pine]

.... What I meant was before actually getting stuck where she was with the crossing arm over her vehicle, could she maybe not have realized there was a R/R crossing ahead? Where I live there are yellow signs ahead of the actual crossing warning motorists that they are approaching a R/R crossing. ...MOO

bbm sbm

Oh, now I see. Thx for explanation.

Going to Google Earth and StreetView, using little-man-icon, we can walk or drive along Commerce St. to look for signs like that.
I'm pretty clumsy w G/E & S/V.

Maybe someone else can test-drive and report back? Pls.

 

[al66pine]

[h=3]Originally Posted by panthera "....Where I live there are yellow signs ahead of the actual crossing warning motorists that they are approaching a R/R crossing...." bbm sbm

Panthera -- Yellow circular signs as described below, which are planted many, many feet before the crossbuck RR signs?
(Apologies for funny formatting, mostly from cut & paste.)
[/h][h=3]Advance WarningSigns
· Yellow circular advance warning signs: Placed ahead of a publichighway-rail intersection. They remind the driver to slow down, lookand listen for a train, and be prepared to stop if a train is coming.
· Pavement markings: Placed on paved roads nearthe yellow circular advance warning sign. They mean the same as the advanced warning sign and alert drivers thatthe road crosses railroad tracks ahead.
There may be a whitestop line painted on the pavement just before the railroad tracks.
Crossbuck Signs
· These are the most common signs at publichighway-rail intersections. They requireyou to stop and yield the right of way to a train if one is approaching. A sign below the crossbuck sign mightindicate the number of tracks present.

from www.nhtsa.gov/.../injury/buses/BusDriverSafety/RailGradeCrossing/Highw...


[/h][h=3][/h][h=3][/h][h=3][/h]

 

[LadyL]

I think that article is wrong. She was inside the car when it got hit, from what eyewitness said.
The eyewitness who was behind her says the gate came on top of her car. She had time to come out and look at the car. Then she got into the car and drove forward right into the train path. Doesn't sound like she was stuck on the tracks, sounds like she was trying to beat the train but didn't make it.

"There was nobody behind me so I backed up real fast," Hope said. "She gets out of the car, walks over to the gate, grabs the gate, looks at me. I go back and I'm waving at her to come back. She grabs the gate and wiggles it around. And the whole time I'm thinking 'Time's running out here.' She goes around and gets into the car and steps on the gas and goes forward 15 feet, right in front of the train."
http://www.lohud.com/story/news/transit/2015/02/04/metro-north-crash-minute-by-minute/22873685/

I think she was going to back up but forgot to put her car in reverse. She gunned it the wrong way because she was in shock from the situation. JMO.

 

[LadyL]

When I was 16 or 17, I stopped for a red light, on railroad tracks. And then the gates started to come down. It was gridlock-ish traffic, so at first I thought there was no place to go, but I laid on the horn and started backing up while waving frantically out my window. Enough folks behind me managed to back up enough to let me get off the tracks (the arm of the gate ended up even with the very front of my car, and my rear bumper was resting on the car behind me). Seeing those lights start to flash and the gates start to come down and feeling stuck was one of the most terrifying moments of my life. The thought of getting out and running never even occurred to me.

I always stop well back from tracks now (and I cringe when I see folks who don't). And if I'm at a railroad crossing, when the arms start going up, I wait until they're all the way up, in case there's a second train coming.

I wonder if the driver of the SUV was on one set of multiple tracks, and thought she could bust through the gate in front of her? Or if she could have busted through the one behind her? It sounds like if she had just left her car where it was the train was on another set of tracks, and all would have been OK .

I was with my boyfriend once when his van stalled on tracks. When I saw the lights of the train and the train was blasting the horn, I swung my door open and was about to jump out but I think at that moment, my boyfriend got the van started and raced across the tracks. The details are a bit foggy (this was 35 years ago) but I'll never forget the sickening feeling in the pit of my stomach.

 

[panthera]

Originally Posted by panthera "....Where I live there are yellow signs ahead of the actual crossing warning motorists that they are approaching a R/R crossing...." bbm sbm

Panthera -- Yellow circular signs as described below, which are planted many, many feet before the crossbuck RR signs?
(Apologies for funny formatting, mostly from cut & paste.)


Advance WarningSigns
·Yellow circular advance warning signs: Placed ahead of a publichighway-rail intersection.They remind the driver to slow down, lookand listen for a train, and be prepared to stop if a train is coming.
·Pavement markings: Placed on paved roads nearthe yellow circular advance warning sign. They mean the same as the advanced warning sign and alert drivers thatthe road crosses railroad tracks ahead.
There may be a whitestop line painted on the pavement just before the railroad tracks.
Crossbuck Signs
·These are the most common signs at publichighway-rail intersections. They requireyou to stop and yield the right of way to a train if one is approaching. A sign below the crossbuck sign mightindicate the number of tracks present.

from www.nhtsa.gov/.../injury/buses/BusDriverSafety/RailGradeCrossing/Highw...

Yes, exactly, that is what I was referring to.

If nothing else comes from this tragedy, perhaps public awareness of R/R crossings and being careful not to be stopped beyond the point where one should stop. There is one set of tracks I cross daily and it can either be a long, slower moving freight train on them or Amtrak which is much faster. One definitely has to be aware where tracks are and anticipate that a train may be coming.

MOO

 

[Betty P]

In any traffic situation, stop and go, etc., never enter the track area beyond the crossing gates unless there's space on the other side of the tracks. It's a very simple rule to follow. Do this even if the gates are up, no train is in sight and no lights are flashing. If crossing tracks where there are no lights or gates, come to a full stop and look both ways before crossing. Trains follow irregular schedules and travel at varying speeds. It takes nearly one mile for a train traveling at moderate speed to stop.

Be aware of what's ahead of you when driving and you wont get hit by train. As a former railroad employee, I actually like to watch them go by.

 

[al66pine]

In any traffic situation, stop and go, etc., never enter the track area beyond the crossing gates unless there's space on the other side of the tracks. It's a very simple rule to follow. Do this even if the gates are up, no train is in sight and no lights are flashing. If crossing tracks where there are no lights or gates, come to a full stop and look both ways before crossing. Trains follow irregular schedules and travel at varying speeds. It takes nearly one mile for a train traveling at moderate speed to stop.

Be aware of what's ahead of you when driving and you wont get hit by train. As a former railroad employee, I actually like to watch them go by.

Thank you, Betty P, for your ^post.^
FWIW, at nhtsa.gov I ran across educational or seminar material for school bus drivers re RR crossings, quoted below. Guidance for any driver, perhaps.

“Whether or not you regularly encounter a highway-rail grade crossing, you need to know how to proceedsafely at one.
You never know when a detour or a new route will lead you to a railroad crossing.

If you do cross a highway-rail grade crossing regularly, you should always expect a train.
Freight trains don’t operate on set schedules and passenger trains change their schedules all thetime.
“When you come up to a railroad crossing, who has the right-of-way?
Answer: Always the train.
The train does because a 100-car train traveling 55 mph can take a mile to stop – a distance equal to 18 footballfields.

“How far away from thetracks should you stop?
At least 15 feet but no more than 50 feet.”

Not that difficult, is it? But oh so easy to be distracted.

www.nhtsa.gov/ (Sorry, no direct link to above quote)

 

[Sonya610]

I think she was going to back up but forgot to put her car in reverse. She gunned it the wrong way because she was in shock from the situation. JMO.

The man behind her said she did NOT seem panicked, she got out, jiggled the crossing arm, then casually got back in her car and took her time as if she was putting on her seat belt.

The fact she was jiggling the crossing arm makes me think she was ditzy and concerned about her car getting scratched, NOT panicked.

When she jiggled the crossing arm she had to FEEL how flimsy it.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

‘She’s not a murderer': Daughter of SUV driver in fatal Metro-North crash

http://nypost.com/2015/03/31/shes-not-a-murderer-daughter-of-suv-driver-in-fatal-metro-north-crash/

 

[ScarlettScarpetta]

The man behind her said she did NOT seem panicked, she got out, jiggled the crossing arm, then casually got back in her car and took her time as if she was putting on her seat belt.

The fact she was jiggling the crossing arm makes me think she was ditzy and concerned about her car getting scratched, NOT panicked.

When she jiggled the crossing arm she had to FEEL how flimsy it.

Just because someone does not seem panicky does not mean they aren't. She apparently did not think the train was that close.
She probably felt trapped by the arm of the gate. I would have been. Until this story was posted I had no idea those arms were wood. They look metal to me.

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Family of SUV driver killed in Metro-North train crash plans to file lawsuit

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...metro-north-crash-plans-sue-article-1.2210068

 

[Blondie in Spokane]

Horrific photos:

Dramatic photos released of wreckage from fatal Metro-North crash in Westchester

http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york...age-fatal-metro-north-crash-article-1.2467740