Officer shows 'great restraint' NOT shooting charging homicide suspect

[Lulu14]

Next time, he'll get himself killed. If he were my husband, I would have chewed his ass.

 

[shadowraiths]

Please respect the Constitution.

Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

What you are advocating is no due process of law, and police officers are sworn to uphold the constitution, not their own safety or their family.

BIUM (Bolded, Italicized, & Underlined by Me).

Imho, had Officer Kidder shot and killed Michael Wilcox, I very much doubt he would be charged or indicted. This did not involve an infraction. It involved the murder of two people, and the assault on the investigator and his wife.

Othwerwise put, Wilcox already proved he was a public danger in that he allegedly shot and killed Courtney Fowler, 25, and possibly Zach Gilkison. Note the operative word, "shot." That means he had access to a firearm. Moreover, he was running amok around town, and therefore definitely a danger to the public.

Based upon the original report and interview, it also appears he was trying to get Officer Kidder to kill him. That makes things even more dangerous. This is a person with nothing to lose. The officer's cam would be very scary to watch, had we not known the outcome, in advance... That is, Officer Kidder could have very easily been killed.

Did Officer Kidder make the right decision? Imho, he was very very lucky. This time. Esp considering that he fell backwards during the confrontation.

That said, affaics, this was not a judge, jury, and executioner issue. It was about keeping the public safe from an obviously dangerous man. And I truly hope this officer does not let the praise go to his head bc he might not be so lucky in a future similar encounter.

After all, imho, he walked a very dangerous line btwn lucky and dead.

 

[SStarr33]

Next time, he'll get himself killed. If he were my husband, I would have chewed his ass.

Word.

I would have blown the guy away.

I think the PO needs to be re-trained. If he was in my community, I would not be comfortable with him on the police force.

 

[Curious Guy]

Is it just me or has "Up to the Minute" recently become an euphemism for "24/7 LE bashing"?

 

[MyBelle]

Word.

I would have blown the guy away.

I think the PO needs to be re-trained. If he was in my community, I would not be comfortable with him on the police force.

For all we know, his coworkers might feel the same way.

 

[K_Z]

This officer is incredibly lucky to be alive, IMO. I don't see this as "restraint" at all-- I view it as failure to make a timely decision, that very nearly cost him his life. This officer was not demonstrating his "skill" IMO-- he was LUCKY. In my profession, we have a saying that is tongue in cheek, that "it's better to be lucky than good." What that means is, a patient survives all of the marginal decision making despite the provider, who is "lucky" the patient is still alive. (So the provider escapes being sued.)

I don't think this officer made good decisions in allowing this very dangerous suspect to get so close to him that he fell backwards. I am concerned that this very tenuous and frightening situation is being held up as a "new example" of restraint-- the worrisome implication is that other officers "should" follow this example. I'm not sure I agree with that, and wonder why a chief of police would publicize video of how vulnerable this officer was. But I do understand why the liberal news media has "jumped" on the opportunity to exploit this situation. They need some "poster children" officers to demonstrate "how" officers should "show restraint" in very, very dangerous circumstances. I think the chief of police was WAY out of line for applauding this officer's actions as some kind of example to be followed. The chief should have had a serious talk with the officer, and told him he may never be that lucky again. Imagine how the rest of the officers feel in that department-- will they now be reluctant to make split second decisions in very dangerous situations?? I don't think any of us want a completely impotent police force, do we?

Anesthesia is also a profession where split second decisions make a significant difference in whether a case goes smoothly, or is wracked with chaos and uncertainty, and actions of "need to rescue". This LE video reminds me a lot of some providers I have encountered in my profession where their questionable decisions, or delay in making definitive decisions, lead to a chaotic set of circumstances for the patient, the rest of the staff, and the need for "heroic" measures. It doesn't matter that the heroic measures ultimately lead to a good outcome for the patient-- the collapse of sound decision making is the issue for the erratic provider. In those cases, the patients are simply lucky to be alive, with no serious complications. Do I think the provider is "good" or "heroic" for making questionable decisions, or delaying moving to "plan B, C, or D"? No. I don't view them as a solid decision maker-- I see them as an erratic provider that is a thin edge away from all out catastrophe, and got lucky. Or one that is reluctant to make hard decisions in a timely manner.

 

[MsFacetious]

I think it was a matter of instinct.
I think he instinctively felt this guy wouldn't shoot him.

Many people who threaten without actually showing a weapon, don't have one.
Gavin de Becker books are an amazing resource about relying on instincts.

I think it's possible this cop followed his instincts... that this was a man trying suicide by cop.
If he had really wanted to die... he could have pointed a gun at the cop, or shot himself with his own gun.

 

[atthelake]

I would hold him, be grateful he is alive, and then be angry and ask him to NEVER allow a charging murder suspect so close to his gun ever again. But that is just me.

Subscribing to thread to follow tomorrow.

BTW.. Will someone please please please by those GAWD awful teal colored tufted sofas that appear on all my threads every 15 posts as advertisements that are offered by Joss & Main so I can look at another advertisement? :giggle: :floorlaugh:

 

[teedie2]

well to be fair to the officer, does he have to cut it that close? It's a matter of a split second. Does he have to wait and see the gun pointed and shooting at him? Which gives him a whole 1/10 of a second 'drop' on the murder suspect?

The situation you are describing here sounds more like the murder suspect had the drop on the officer.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I know I'm very late to comment on here but that video scared me to death. The officer was backing up and fell. The perp began charging. If backup hadn't shown up I don't know what would have happened.

 

[Ray_of_hope]

I don't really know that this was that prudent. The cop did not take his own safety fully into account, imo. If the suspect did have a weapon it would have taken a split second to begin firing.

OR he could have jumped on the cop when he stumbled backwards and lost his balance. That could have been a deadly mistake on his part. I don't think the cop was all that prudent. I think he was afraid of being the next Darren Wilson, imo.

I totally agree!

 

[MyBelle]

I don't really know that this was that prudent. The cop did not take his own safety fully into account, imo. If the suspect did have a weapon it would have taken a split second to begin firing.

OR he could have jumped on the cop when he stumbled backwards and lost his balance. That could have been a deadly mistake on his part. I don't think the cop was all that prudent. I think he was afraid of being the next Darren Wilson, imo.

BBM. I think you nailed the reason and it should cause every American to pause. A young officer endangering his life because he wants to avoid the pure he77 that Darren Wilson endured.

JMO

 

[waitin'4thewrld2chg]

I understand both sides of the 'agree to disagree' discussion and think strong points have been made all the way around.


This was a potentially very dang dangerous situation for this law enforcement officer, no two ways about it. Not every cop would have survived that dicey set of circumstances, but things turned out OK for this particular officer.


Sorry to go a little woo-woo on you, but the word "intuition" is part of our vernacular. What if this cop made, kind of automatically, a split-second intuition check and did not shoot.


Perhaps another day with another guy coming at him in the same way with the same background story, the officer might have made a split-second intuition check and shot the guy dead.


I think all of our jobs are a mixture of art and science. We dance between the book they gave us to follow and what we know needs to be done or not done in certain tricky moments.

 

[KaaBoom]

BIUM (Bolded, Italicized, & Underlined by Me).

You are taking that out of context. "except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger".

The police are not land or navel forces, or militia, and there was no war or public danger going on.

 

[katydid23]

You are taking that out of context. "except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger".

The police are not land or navel forces, or militia, and there was no war or public danger going on.

Of course there was public danger going on. This Bozo already killed two people, took cops on a dangerous high speed chase, which endangered dozens and dozens, and he got into a scuffle with the investigator who first tried to stop him. He was majorly suicidal, felt he had nothing to lose, and tried to commit suicide by cop. There was major public danger going on.

 

[jjenny]

Considering the police officer fell on his back as the suspect was advancing on him, he is very lucky back up showed up when it did.

 

[jjenny]

OH MY GOD!

Nobody is saying the officer did not have reason to shoot the suspect. If there was ever a case where shooting was warranted, this is it!

Nobody on this thread is saying that. What is being said is "Wow, he could have killed the dude but he did not have to in order to arrest him! Well done officer!"

Why is this so hard to grasp? I am getting angry so I will take a break here and privately be grateful for LEOs like this. I admire him.

I don't see how he would have been able to arrest the suspect, considering he fell on his behind as the suspect was approaching.
He is lucky back up showed up at that exact time and suspect gave up.

 

[Elley Mae]

After watching the video I see we have a new definition for restraint. jmo

 

[jjenny]

When he fell on his back, the suspect could have either jumped on him or run away.
Is that what msm thinks police should do?

 

[CoolJ]

This case and the reaction to it in is thread is funny. And very telling.
Here we have an officer who had every right to use lethal force but chose not to.
He had a tough split second decision to make and it appears he made a good one because the bad guy is in jail and nobody died as a result of the chase and apprehension of the suspect.

Yet this officer is being "bashed"

Why not give him the benefit of the doubt in this scenario?

Is the real truth of the matter that there are many who would just rather see any suspected criminal or "****" get blown away?

ETA - ha! Didn't know we aren't allowed to use the T word any more!