OH - 9 killed + Gunman, 16 injured, Mass Shooting, Oregon District, Dayton, 4 Aug 2019

[x_files]

Agree, but that region is "old fashioned" in their society and institutions.

Ohio?

 

[x_files]

Forever?

until 18. Then if not well transfer to an adult mental health facility.
If they cannot be helped via therapy, medication, and you can't trust them in society and shouldn't have legal access to guns.

What did people do in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s when troubled teens refused therapy, medication? Juvie? prison?
This cannot be a brand new problem.

 

[kiaatcher]

Ohio GOP Lawmaker Blames Mass Shootings On Trans People, Gay Marriage And More | HuffPost
I want to cry. Where did we go wrong? When did our leaders become our enemies?

 

[Inthedetails]

until 18. Then if not well transfer to an adult mental health facility.
If they cannot be helped via therapy, medication, and you can't trust them in society and shouldn't have legal access to guns.

But what therapy? What is there to help them?

What is working?

What isn't working?

We've got to face the facts, imo, that whatever we're doing as a society isn't working and we need to make the effort, spend the time and money, to change.

IMO, the number of kids who are truly beyond help is much, much smaller than the kids who grow up to be violent. I think some (many? most?) of the kids who grow up to be mass murders could have been helped at some point when they were young - but we don't know what to do.

By "we" I mean society, not anyone in particular.

And, I understand and accept some people are beyond help. But I don't think all of the mass murderers were born to kill.

I'll stop posting as I realize we aren't going to solve the problem, even if some of us are truly interested in figuring this out.

So....I guess we'll continue to send 'em to jail after they shoot up a mall or school or whatever. Then we can fight about which political party is worse and wait for the next shooting.

jmopinion.

 

[MsBetsy]

Politics doesn’t explain these events.

Mass killers (shooters), all seem to have a similar psychological makeup.

They tend to be angry loners, who are looking for revenge.

They misdirect their rage on a group of people who they blame for their problems.

They find a sense of belonging to an ideology that strikes their fancy, whether it is white supremacy, radical Islam, or whatever the hell else.

Basically, they find something to fill the vacuum.

But that is a symptom, not a cause.

Yes, from what I have learned based on the research is that mass shooters are often paranoid, resentful, or narcissistic.

Mental illness has been present in about fifty percent of all these types of criminals. But of course that is only based on known mental health history. It's probably a lot higher.

Another factor is that there is almost always a personal grievance.

Then of course there is the desire for notoriety, the hope for fame, glory, or attention. They want to be seen as a hero standing up for a cause.

In this case wasn't the shooter intentionally targeting his sister? I thought that's what LE stated. Imo

 

[MassGuy]

Yes, from what I have learned based on the research is that mass shooters are often paranoid, resentful, or narcissistic.

Mental illness has been present in about fifty percent of all these types of criminals. But of course that is only based on known mental health history. It's probably a lot higher.

Another factor is that there is almost always a personal grievance.

Then of course there is the desire for notoriety, the hope for fame, glory, or attention. They want to be seen as a hero standing up for a cause.

In this case wasn't the shooter intentionally targeting his sister? I thought that's what LE stated. Imo

Yeah. He didn’t shoot her by mistake, no way.

 

[x_files]

But what therapy? What is there to help them?

What is working?

What isn't working?

We've got to face the facts, imo, that whatever we're doing as a society isn't working and we need to make the effort, spend the time and money, to change.

IMO, the number of kids who are truly beyond help is much, much smaller than the kids who grow up to be violent. I think some (many? most?) of the kids who grow up to be mass murders could have been helped at some point when they were young - but we don't know what to do.

By "we" I mean society, not anyone in particular.

And, I understand and accept some people are beyond help. But I don't think all of the mass murderers were born to kill.

I'll stop posting as I realize we aren't going to solve the problem, even if some of us are truly interested in figuring this out.

So....I guess we'll continue to send 'em to jail after they shoot up a mall or school or whatever. Then we can fight about which political party is worse and wait for the next shooting.

jmopinion.

I agree we need major changes and many of those changes involved are topics we cannot broach on WS.
But we cannot do nothing either. This guy had lots of RED FLAGS and LE did nothing.

 

[x_files]

He was a singer in a Pornogrind band of which had violent and graphic lyrics about rape and murdering women.
This is a huge RED FLAG. Parents had to have known about it.
I feel bad for Megan, what did she have to endure living with him?
EXCLUSIVE: Dayton Shooter Was In a “Pornogrind” Band That Released Songs About Raping and Killing Women

 

[Doghairrules]

=

Were his parents aware that their maladjusted
son had brought high powered weapons into the home?
I'm just surprised he didn't kill his parents first before he went out that night.

RSBM. This surprised me too and then I thought maybe this was his big F you to his parents (for whatever insane reason). What would hurt them more than losing both of their children at the same time? I feel bad for them.

 

[MassGuy]

I agree we need major changes and many of those changes involved are topics we cannot broach on WS.
But we cannot do nothing either. This guy had lots of RED FLAGS and Le did nothing.

LE can only act on “red flags,” if a crime has been committed.

Simply believing that someone has the propensity to behave violently in the future, doesn’t cut it.

If they have a specific and credible threat, and don’t act on it, that’s a different thing entirely though.

 

[x_files]

LE can only act on “red flags,” if a crime has been committed.

Simply believing that someone has the propensity to behave violently in the future, doesn’t cut it.

If they have a specific and credible threat, and don’t act on it, that’s a different thing entirely though.

What about a KILL/RAPE list in HS? Isn't that considered a credible threat? It used to be. My HS expelled kids left and right for less.
If it's not it should be considered a threat.

 

[kiaatcher]

"Over the past year, the 24-year-old shooter occasionally performed live vocals in the band Menstrual Munchies"
EXCLUSIVE: Dayton Shooter Was In a “Pornogrind” Band That Released Songs About Raping and Killing Women
I won't include the song names, too vile, just know it includes "pre-teen" girls and other taboo and disgusting topics.
Good god, I feel violated just reading the article. I feel so sorry for whoever had to interact with him.

 

[MsBetsy]

However now I am seeing all over media and SM that mental illness is not the cause or the answer

Mental illness does play a huge role, though. It's a common factor in many of these cases. Imo

 

[Doghairrules]

Also, he was a minor at the time so it wouldn’t be on his record as an adult and wouldn’t have prohibited him from obtaining a weapon.

There is a case of actual school shooters that were minors and were sent to prison and then released at 21 who had no record at all. One went on to have weapon charges and jail time. The other did get in trouble for obtaining a concealed carry permit and weapons but no jail time. Andrew Golden and I do not remember second shooters name.

O/T Andrew Golden was just killed in a car crash last week:

Man who committed school shooting when he was 11 dies in car crash

 

[MassGuy]

What about a KILL/RAPE list in HS? Isn't that considered a credible threat? It used to be. My HS expelled kids left and right for less.
If it's not it should be considered a threat.

Sure. But that was several years ago.

He didn’t act on it, or apparently even make an attempt to.

There’s only so much you can do when someone does something like that, and I’m not sure we know what the specific response was.

He was 17, which made him a minor. If any charges did occur, we wouldn’t know.

 

[Paulas88]

EXCLUSIVE: Dayton Shooter Was In a “Pornogrind” Band That Released Songs About Raping and Killing Women

Over the past year, the 24-year-old shooter occasionally performed live vocals in the band Menstrual Munchies, which released albums titled “6 Ways of Female Butchery” and “Preeteen Daughter Pu$$y Slaughter,” with cover art showing the rape and massacre of female bodies. He also performed with a group called Putrid Liquid.

 

[kiaatcher]

Incels.

Incel - Wikipedia

The rise of incels: How a support group for the dateless became a violent internet subculture

No lol.
I've spent a lot of time looking into the incel community and it just breaks my heart.
When r/incelfies wasn't quarantined I would spend some time in there. It's a subreddit where incels post pictures of themselves and rate each other based off of looks, hygiene, clothing, and mainly race. The amount of bullying is overwhelming.
I would leave kind comments with pointers on how they could improve their appearance, like a haircut, certain styles of clothing, etc., and encourage them to take up a new hobby. Downvoted into oblivion everytime and eventually blocked by mods, but I'd like to think I helped at least one of them.
I talked to a few in private messages and they were genuinely sweet men, just very mentally ill and troubled.
MOO

 

[Doghairrules]

LE can only act on “red flags,” if a crime has been committed.

Simply believing that someone has the propensity to behave violently in the future, doesn’t cut it.

If they have a specific and credible threat, and don’t act on it, that’s a different thing entirely though.

Here's where I think we could make a relatively easy change. If the red flags are reported and confirmed, then that individual should not have access to guns, at the very least. We don't have to charge them with a crime for their thoughts, but I do think we can limit their access to weapons as much as possible. I know, people say that they will find a way to get weapons illegally. But most of these guys appear to be, uh, how to say it -- unmotivated losers. So I question whether they have what it takes to figure out how to buy an illegal weapon.

 

[Doghairrules]

He was a singer in a Pornogrind band of which had violent and graphic lyrics about rape and murdering women.
This is a huge RED FLAG. Parents had to have known about it.
I feel bad for Megan, what did she have to endure living with him?
EXCLUSIVE: Dayton Shooter Was In a “Pornogrind” Band That Released Songs About Raping and Killing Women

I don't know what Pornogrind is and I think I will keep it that way... #innocent56yearold

 

[danzn16]

until 18. Then if not well transfer to an adult mental health facility.
If they cannot be helped via therapy, medication, and you can't trust them in society and shouldn't have legal access to guns.

What did people do in the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s when troubled teens refused therapy, medication? Juvie? prison?
This cannot be a brand new problem.

That’s not a thing unless paid out of pocket which would only be possible for upper class families. Something severe has to happen to insure minors are taken out of society for treatment and its usually court ordered. I did rotations at my state psych hospital that also had a children’s wing. There were children that had killed other children, ones that had raped younger children, ones that instigated violence on the ward through psychological games among the patients. None of them were there for extended periods of time.

Our healthcare system is flawed in many ways but especially in mental health. So it really makes me sad seeing people posting that there should be no focus on that because it has nothing to do with mass shootings.