GUILTY OH - Elaina Steinfurth, 17 months, Toledo, 2 Jun 2013 - #7

[Solitaryone]

Hi all, I'm not worried about plea deals so far. I believe that both AS and SK will be doing time for many years to come regardless of plea deal. I think that SK is going to be the one who takes the plea, and AS I don't know. But, even if both plead guilty, I think they will be in prison for a very, very looong time. That is what I pray for. I hope we find out what exactly happened to baby Elaina. I also hope there will be more arrests, especially JK. All who were in that house, and knew should be facing serious charges themselves!

Grandmaxs6, I am so very sorry for your loss. I hope that Justice for baby Elaina will help ease your pain. I'll keep you in my prayers.

I'm confident there will be Justice for baby Elaina! And I'm usually quite sceptical when it comes to the outcomes of so many cases, but I do believe we will see Justice done here.

As for RS, I don't think he had anything to do with what happened to baby Elaina, but I do think he knows a lot more than he would admit to! Mainly I just wishe he would stay quiet, unless he has valid info. that will help in the case against AS and SK, but that ain't going to happen, so I wish he would just be quiet, quit stirring up so much trouble, and go away!

FM, CC, and the Steinfurth family, hang in there, Justice is coming for baby Elaina, and you too!

 

[scmom]

I hope all of the inmates around AS and SK never let up on calling them baby killers.

 

[Solitaryone]

Grief is not a process that makes sense and anger is a perfectly acceptable part of that process.
It doesn't need to be rational, or fair, or sugar coated... it is GRIEF. Grief is VERY harsh already. :twocents:

When my Aunt died I was angry at everyone. EVERYONE should have done more to help her.

When my horse died on Friday I was angry at everyone.
No one did anything wrong and there was nothing anyone could have done, but I was angry.

You know what we did with my horse when she died?
We didn't just leave her there, or call and have her taken to the landfill (yes, that's a thing.)

We spent hours carefully loading her onto a trailer and then drove 2 hours one way.
We buried her on a friends beautiful farm... because that is what she deserved.
We couldn't bear the thought of not knowing where she was, not having a grave to go to.

I wonder if AS was as bothered watching her BABY die, as I was watching my horse die?
I wonder if AS was as disturbed at moving the body of her dead BABY as I was my horse?

Somehow I doubt it. Because we even bury feral cats around here.
These people couldn't even manage to give a BABY a proper burial. :banghead:

MsFacetious,thank you for your post! I'm so sorry for your loss! I totally understand! I've been there myself, and I can't imagine treating my pets any different.

As for AS, I think she is and was only concerned with saving her a**! Baby Elaina deserved to have a mother who loved her, not kill her!

Justice is on the way, and I hope AS and SK spend the majority if not all of their lives in prison. Whatever the outcome, they will not be out of prison for many years to come. And I hope there are more arrests coming soon!

 

[MyBelle]

Thanks Ferretmommy! I have myself been confused about that. Still makes no sense to me as to why she was over there then......

It is possible she felt she had nowhere else to go or that he was trying to patch things up with her. According to the Lucas County docket linked upthread, Mr. King tried to obtain a protective order against another woman just six months earlier and his request was denied. Apparently he is also going through a divorce. imo, he seems to be a guy with serious control issues.

 

[cherubcollector]

BBM

It is possible she felt she had nowhere else to go or that he was trying to patch things up with her. According to the Lucas County docket linked upthread, Mr. King tried to obtain a protective order against another woman just six months earlier and his request was denied. Apparently he is also going through a divorce. imo, he seems to be a guy with serious control issues.

What link was that? The cases you refer to involve a different person. If you are looking at the first divorce case, SK was only one year old at the time!

 

[wendiesan]

Thank You!

Some day I will post what happened...And YES, justice for Elaina will bring me much comfort. For each convicted baby murderer, it's a comfort!! NO CHILD deserves their life taken from them as a result of evil people.

Grief is not a process that makes sense and anger is a perfectly acceptable part of that process.
It doesn't need to be rational, or fair, or sugar coated... it is GRIEF. Grief is VERY harsh already. :twocents:

snipped by me for space

Thank you both for sharing so much about the manifestations of grieving in your lives and for describing some of the sorrows that preceded the grief. The complexity of the process of grieving is not always understood by those who remain untouched by the death of a loved one, whether person or animal. Your ability to turn anger into compassion, and sorrow into empathy shines through your words.

“The most beautiful people in the world are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss, and have found their way out of the depths. These people have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people do not just happen.”
― Elisabeth Kübler-Ross

 

[wendiesan]

BBM. With all due respect, I realize there is probably much more to the story but based on what you did post, I think you are being extremely harsh on a dead child's mother.

snipped by me

I think, MB, you might find the book, "On Death and Dying" by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, to be helpful. In it, Ms. Kübler-Ross describes the five stages of grief model (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance) and maintains that those five stages may happen in a different order, and for different periods of time, for each person. Unless a person becomes "stuck" in one stage, there is no "right" way of grieving. (ie. "stuck" in the opinion of a qualified counsellor who can help the person move on to another stage) This is a highly individual process, and cannot be rushed. Especially, IMO, by those who are outside of the experience.

 

[SCHMAE]

Justice for Elaina !

 

[krig101]

http://www.examiner.com/article/possible-new-development-toledo-baby-elaina-steinfurth-case

"And thus begins the dance of who can turn on who first, excuses of why they did what they did and court authorities dancing around all that.

Just depends on who is leading and who is following on how it will all end."

 

[MyBelle]

I think, MB, you might find the book, "On Death and Dying" by Elisabeth Kübler-Ross, to be helpful. In it, Ms. Kübler-Ross describes the five stages of grief model (denial, anger, bargaining, depression and acceptance) and maintains that those five stages may happen in a different order, and for different periods of time, for each person. Unless a person becomes "stuck" in one stage, there is no "right" way of grieving. (ie. "stuck" in the opinion of a qualified counsellor who can help the person move on to another stage) This is a highly individual process, and cannot be rushed. Especially, IMO, by those who are outside of the experience.

Thanks but you are making an assumption I am outside the "experience."

I will continue to hold the opinion that a mother of a child killed by another human being is also victim. I don't blame victims.

JMO

 

[SCHMAE]

Thanks but you are making an assumption I am outside the "experience."

I will continue to hold the opinion that a mother of a child killed by another human being is also victim. I don't blame victims.

JMO

Mom's been sitting in jail for 4 or 5 months on this case. That tells me LE doesn't view her as a victim in this case. I can appreciate your point but not sure it applies to every mother of every dead baby. jmooo

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

What link was that? The cases you refer to involve a different person. If you are looking at the first divorce case, SK was only one year old at the time!

You are right! My state requires full legal names on dockets so that it is clear it isn't the same person. My apologies.

 

[MyBelle]

Mom's been sitting in jail for 4 or 5 months on this case. That tells me LE doesn't view her as a victim in this case. I can appreciate your point but not sure it applies to every mother of every dead baby. jmooo

Mom has not been charged with murder, she's been charged with obstruction of justice and has not been convicted. The charge could be dropped or she could be granted immunity and she could walk out of there tomorrow for all we know.

At this point, I view her as a victim and I do not believe she murdered her child or condoned it.

JMO

 

[grandmaxs6]

Praying for Justice for Elaina!!

On a much lighter note...I am in charge of getting the Children's Christmas Program ready for our church. I so enjoy working with the children. You never know what will come out of their mouth when they stand up front to say their pieces. Love it

 

[wendiesan]

Thanks but you are making an assumption I am outside the "experience."

I will continue to hold the opinion that a mother of a child killed by another human being is also victim. I don't blame victims.

JMO

Actually, I was making the point that you were outside grandmaxs6's experience, since, unless you are part of her family, you were not involved in the death of her niece. GM's mourning for the baby has its own course to run and, logical or not, anger is part of the process. As MxFacetious pointed out, anger may be felt towards people who were not even involved in the death which you are grieving. Anger is an instinctive response to the violent death of someone we love, a very human element of grief. IMO, we empathetically respond to situations not directly involving ourselves with a range of emotions, one of which is anger. It takes a great deal of courage to reveal the presence of such anger, and, I hope, that the revealing may be a step to transforming the energy of anger into the energy of hope.

I don't disagree at all with your opinion that the mother (father, sister, brother, grandparent, cousin, aunt, uncle) is also a victim when a child of any age is the victim of a homicide. For instance, TJ is certainly a victim of Elaina's homicide. He is also the representative of Elaina, the victim of mental and physical brutality, in terms of legal proceedings. As well, TJ represents the interests of little KS who is not only a minor and a victim of Elaina's homicide, but who is possibly, a witness to the brutal treatment of her baby sister. Further, TJ was a victim of the hoax perpetrated by AS and SK (and, IMO, JK and other people in the house) regarding Elaina's "disappearance".

I freely admit that there are situations in which a mother may not be able to protect her child, even though she has made every effort to ensure her child's safety. However, IMO, when the mother of a murdered child has made the choice to be involved as an accessory to the killing of her child, or the coverup of her child's death, she has switched sides. It's a significant and specific dereliction of her responsibility as a mother, and it's a shift that I personally find reprehensible. I believe that such a woman has gone from the ranks of defender and, therefore, the victim of the crime, to those of perpetrator and, if not instigator, then accomplice. Neither an accomplice nor a perpetrator is the victim of the crime that they commit.

Anger towards the victims of crimes, sadly, happens consistently in our society. Most especially when those victims are female--recent cases involving rape and abuse have provided classic examples of this tendency. However, there are times when righteous anger is both appropriate and uncontainable when you are aware of all the facts in a situation in which you too are a victim. I appreciate that your position is one that underscores the importance of not rushing to judgement when discussing people impacted by a crime and protecting victims from any unjustified anger which may directed towards them by the public. I think we may just sometimes disagree on its applicability in the current discussions.

Websleuths definitely supports victims.


We are another day closer to finding Justice for Elaina.

 

[MyBelle]

Actually, I was making the point that you were outside grandmaxs6's experience, since, unless you are part of her family, you were not involved in the death of her niece. GM's mourning for the baby has its own course to run and, logical or not, anger is part of the process. As MxFacetious pointed out, anger may be felt towards people who were not even involved in the death which you are grieving. Anger is an instinctive response to the violent death of someone we love, a very human element of grief. IMO, we empathetically respond to situations not directly involving ourselves with a range of emotions, one of which is anger. It takes a great deal of courage to reveal the presence of such anger, and, I hope, that the revealing may be a step to transforming the energy of anger into the energy of hope.

I don't disagree at all with your opinion that the mother (father, sister, brother, grandparent, cousin, aunt, uncle) is also a victim when a child of any age is the victim of a homicide. For instance, TJ is certainly a victim of Elaina's homicide. He is also the representative of Elaina, the victim of mental and physical brutality, in terms of legal proceedings. As well, TJ represents the interests of little KS who is not only a minor and a victim of Elaina's homicide, but who is possibly, a witness to the brutal treatment of her baby sister. Further, TJ was a victim of the hoax perpetrated by AS and SK (and, IMO, JK and other people in the house) regarding Elaina's "disappearance".

I freely admit that there are situations in which a mother may not be able to protect her child, even though she has made every effort to ensure her child's safety. However, IMO, when the mother of a murdered child has made the choice to be involved as an accessory to the killing of her child, or the coverup of her child's death, she has switched sides. It's a significant and specific dereliction of her responsibility as a mother, and it's a shift that I personally find reprehensible. I believe that such a woman has gone from the ranks of defender and, therefore, the victim of the crime, to those of perpetrator and, if not instigator, then accomplice. Neither an accomplice nor a perpetrator is the victim of the crime that they commit.

Anger towards the victims of crimes, sadly, happens consistently in our society. Most especially when those victims are female--recent cases involving rape and abuse have provided classic examples of this tendency. However, there are times when righteous anger is both appropriate and uncontainable when you are aware of all the facts in a situation in which you too are a victim. I appreciate that your position is one that underscores the importance of not rushing to judgement when discussing people impacted by a crime and protecting victims from any unjustified anger which may directed towards them by the public. I think we may just sometimes disagree on its applicability in the current discussions.

Websleuths definitely supports victims.


We are another day closer to finding Justice for Elaina.

BBM. You seem to be applying a double standard. What is the basis of your accusations? I have seen no evidence that Elaina's mother perpetrated a hoax or that she perpetrated or in any way was complicit in the murder of her child. I'm pretty sure she still has her parental rights intact. Any anger I may have is directed at the perpetrator, still unknown.

<Mod Snip>

Domestic violence happens consistently in our society and blaming victims solves nothing. Toledo's community needs to step-up and address what happened to Elaina and learn how and why it happened. A good start would be to increase the capacity of the Toledo YWCA domestic violence shelter.

JMO

 

[john's mom]

AS could have stayed with her children at her stepfather's, but she chose to go to SK's.
She did have options.

 

[SCHMAE]

If AS did not harm the baby and had run out to TJ on that Sunday and said ' oh no.....SK hurt her, help me, what do we do ? ' , she could very easily be wearing the 'victim' cloak today. She did not do that. She covered, lied, manipulated, obstructed, went out the next morning for a job interview, smiled and blew kisses in court and after weeks of begging from LE and TJ never did EVER disclose the location of her baby..............NEVER.
I'm sure AS has been victimized by many people and circumstances in her life. I have no doubt about that, but that's not an excuse to treat your own child with callous .....or much worse. My own theory is that almost every pedophile was a victim of a pedophile when they were young themselves,,,,,,,so does that make it right?
If LE tells us AS is 100% innocent of every charge, I will still not change my mind on this becaue if she is innocent, she cared so little for her child as to smile and blow kisses in court instead of wondering where her baby was.....and that's not a victim. That's an illness.

Justice for Elaina !

 

[grandmaxs6]

AS made some very bad decisions that weekend...didn't TJ have the kids staying with him and AS got them for the weekend with the condition she didn't take them to SK's house? Didn't she say that she was staying with RS, but changed her mind because she could not smoke there? And, from what I understand AS was not a victim of abuse. If I am wrong about this...correct me

!!JUSTICE FOR ELAINA!!

 

[SCHMAE]

AS made some very bad decisions that weekend...didn't TJ have the kids staying with him and AS got them for the weekend with the condition she didn't take them to SK's house? Didn't she say that she was staying with RS, but changed her mind because she could not smoke there? And, from what I understand AS was not a victim of abuse. If I am wrong about this...correct me

!!JUSTICE FOR ELAINA!!

Yes to all ! She could have stayed where the babies were safe and clean but she didn't want to . The fact that she chose to stay in the hoarded up filthy house of her x with an x drug problem speaks volumes about her intentions that evening !!!!!